Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[nate33]

The reason a Wall trade is nearly impossible is because his outgoing salary value from our perspective is just $19.2M, meaning we can only take back a maximum of $24.0M in incoming salary to fit within the 125% Rule. The trade kicker isn't factored into our outgoing calculation. But from our trade partner's perspective, they have to absorb Wall's $19.2M salary AND his $20M trade kicker for a total of $39.2M. That means they have to send out at least $31.36M in salary to make the deal work, which is $7.3M more than we can take back.

I wonder if it's possible to waive just part of the trade kicker?

For example, in a hypothetical Wall for Ryan Anderson trade, Anderson has an outgoing salary value of $20.4M. Phoenix can only take back up 125% of what they send out, or exactly $25.5M.

So, instead of demanding all $20M of the trade kicker, can Wall waive all but $6.3M of it, making Wall's incoming salary value exactly $25.5M and within the 125% Rule? From Wall's perspective, he's still getting $6.3M he wouldn't otherwise get if there was no trade. That might be enough to placate him for being traded.

This would work:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya38zwqq

Wizards Get: Ryan Anderson, Troy Daniels, PHX 1st 2019 unprotected, MIL 1st unprotected
PHX Gets: John Wall, Justin Jackson, and SAC 2nd rounder
SAC Gets: T.J. Warren

Ideally, PHX would like to NOT trade T.J. Warren and would rather move Josh Jackson I would imagine.

That's also WAY too much for Phoenix to give up.

[gambitx777]

I don't think thats how the trade kicker works. I might be wrong but my understanding was that if you trade him the values in the trade are done on the original deals. Then once he hits the other team his salary pops up with the trade kicker and it counts towards their cap but does not count towards the incoming trade value ?

On the Zach Lowe podcast they weren't 100% sure on the details of how it would work, but were pretty sure it has to be paid for a trade before July 1, and then it goes away. There has never been a trade kicker like Wall's. The league would need to make some determination of how it works consistent with the CBA.

Yeah and until we get a solid answer on this im going to assume that my explanation is correct. cuz to me it makes sense. because in my head, a trade kicker kick in when you are traded, and the new team pays that amount, so it wouldn't make sense to count towards the incoming because that would be it kicks in before hes traded and thats not a trade kicker.

[gambitx777]

SO fultz wants a trade ?
John
for chandler, fultz and smith.
or
other comos but this might be the move?
flutz has issues but if a chance of place and some work can fix him then **** get him healthy and move on.

[payitforward]

I don't think Elton Brand cares whether Fultz wants a trade.

I also don't think they'll be sitting Ben Simmons any time soon.

[ozthegap]

didn't they already come out and emphatically deny the rumor that he wanted a trade?

[dangermouse]

Fultz apparently has an injury to his wrist that prevents him shooting the ball properly. How do you even fix such a thing, medically?

I liked him coming out of college and he was definitely a top 3 pick (maybe not 1). I thought the problem was his shoulder injury, which if it was I'd be interested in a trade for sure - dude has talent. But this thing sounds permanent, and I don't think he has elite skills in other areas to make up for lack of shooting like a Rondo type.

[JWizmentality]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

[DCZards]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

[gambitx777]

EDIT

[gambitx777]

Fultz apparently has an injury to his wrist that prevents him shooting the ball properly. How do you even fix such a thing, medically?

I liked him coming out of college and he was definitely a top 3 pick (maybe not 1). I thought the problem was his shoulder injury, which if it was I'd be interested in a trade for sure - dude has talent. But this thing sounds permanent, and I don't think he has elite skills in other areas to make up for lack of shooting like a Rondo type.

it depends on what the injury actually is, there are a lot of things in your wrist. but physical therapy, time, maybe surgery? should be fixable.
Besides at this point we want wall gone right?
fultz, zhaire, and chandler for wall, makes sense, and absolutely makes their team a contender.

[gambitx777]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

ESPN and fox news has been pushing the story that its all in his head, and that he has a mental issue not an ability issue. the kids 20 years old. how many of us had our **** together at 20 ? give the kid a break.

[nate33]

SO fultz wants a trade ?
John
for chandler, fultz and smith.
or
other comos but this might be the move?
flutz has issues but if a chance of place and some work can fix him then **** get him healthy and move on.

Philly would be trying to trade for Beal, not Wall. They need shooting around Simmons, not another ball dominator.

[JWizmentality]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

ESPN and fox news has been pushing the story that its all in his head, and that he has a mental issue not an ability issue. the kids 20 years old. how many of us had our **** together at 20 ? give the kid a break.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his **** together, but he does have confidence issues with his shot. Like Wall and Mr. 1 for 2 Beal. Let's stay away from those types of players in the future.

[payitforward]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

ESPN and fox news has been pushing the story that its all in his head, and that he has a mental issue not an ability issue. the kids 20 years old. how many of us had our **** together at 20 ? give the kid a break.

Agree 1000% -- not just 20 years old, but 20 years old & a guaranteed mega-millionaire.

Honestly, it's a miracle to me that any of these kids keeps his head straight & his feet on the ground.

But, that's not the same as "mentally unstable."

edit: don't get me wrong -- I'd love to be 20 & mega-millionaire! Come to think of it, either one would do just fine! But, if forced to choose, I'd take being 20 again over being a mega-millionaire!

[daoneandonly]

Fultz? really? Poor Man's Wall with an even more broken jumper and even more mentally unstable?

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

Because he thinks its funny to laugh at or criticize people going through mental anguish

Fultz is 20 years old and does not deserve all the flack he's been getting. Not his fault he was deemed the consensus #1 pick

[Dat2U]

Keef for Fultz. Who says no?

We'd have until next October to decide whether Fultz is salvageable and worth picking up his option for the following season.

[Illmatic12]

SO fultz wants a trade ?
John
for chandler, fultz and smith.
or
other comos but this might be the move?
flutz has issues but if a chance of place and some work can fix him then **** get him healthy and move on.

Philly would be trying to trade for Beal, not Wall. They need shooting around Simmons, not another ball dominator.

The Simmons thing is interesting. If he ends up plateauing as this non-shooting point forward who wants the ball in his hands, you could argue that his longterm fit will be iffy next to Embiid and Butler. It could work if Simmons accepts being a roll man and dunker who can make plays in the short roll ala Draymond.

But given his pedigree with being a #1 pick/Lebron “heir apparent” I am curious if his ego would allow him to accept the Draymond/Bosh supporting role for very long.

This is sounds like a hot take but longterm Philly may be better off trading Simmons FOR Beal, or a Devin Booker type.

[nate33]

Keef for Fultz. Who says no?

We'd have until next October to decide whether Fultz is salvageable and worth picking up his option for the following season.

I assume Philly says no.

Both players are actively detrimental to their team's success at the moment, but Fultz is 20 years old and has a first overall pick pedigree which at least gives one hope that he could figure things out. If nothing else, from a PR perspective, Philly would look really bad trading a #1 overall pick for an expiring contract just 1.5 seasons after drafting him.

[nate33]

This is sounds like a hot take but longterm Philly may be better off trading Simmons FOR Beal, or a Devin Booker type.

That's actually a very intriguing idea. It really would make a lot of sense for Philly. I know they're confident that they're a "team of the future" but there are some reasons to be concerned that the Simmons/Embiid pairing will never be ideal. Sometimes while waiting for the future, you miss out on a present opportunity. That opportunity could be right now. Trading Simmons for a All-Star SG in his prime could really balance their roster nicely. We could certainly throw in Jeff Green to give them a capable PF to fill in for Simmons at a negligible salary.

Would they just go with with Redick and McConnell at PG, assuming that Butler and Beal could carry much of the ball-handling load? They could trade Fultz for another wing for depth.

Redick/McConnell
Beal/Redick
Butler/trade
Green/Muscala
Embiid/Muscala

Or they could try and rehabilitate Fultz and look to trade Redick for another forward.

We would do it as part of a total rebuild. Trade Wall for picks (and maybe Porter too) and build around Simmons.

[pcbothwel]

Keef for Fultz. Who says no?

We'd have until next October to decide whether Fultz is salvageable and worth picking up his option for the following season.

I assume Philly says no.

Both players are actively detrimental to their team's success at the moment, but Fultz is 20 years old and has a first overall pick pedigree which at least gives one hope that he could figure things out. If nothing else, from a PR perspective, Philly would look really bad trading a #1 overall pick for an expiring contract just 1.5 seasons after drafting him.

Agreed. They need to trade him to a capped out team for a bigger expiring and pick. They need the asset, but just as importantly, they need the max spot. They have about 20M in cap room with Fultz and Jimmy Butler 30M cap hold. They get to about 28M by trading Fultz and that really makes Philly interesting

Butler, Simmons, Embiid, Zhaire, Shamet, Bolden, 2019 1st, and 28M in cap space is big time. Harris and Walker fit great as FAs...