NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5

[NatP4]

Two drop coverage Cs.

No one is utilizing a switch everything defense.

[nate33]

Two drop coverage Cs.

No one is utilizing a switch everything defense.

Yeah, and Rudy's inability to switch effectively just cost them the game. Luka probably wouldn't have scored on Bam.

That said, you are making a good point that perhaps the NBA is progressing away from switch-everything schemes and moving back to more conventional drop coverage systems with more size in the paint. The demise of the Golden State Warriors and the emergence of Jokic and Embiid probably has something to do with this.

I'd say we are also seeing that if you are to succeed defensively in a drop coverage scheme, you really need a bunch of long wings who can help and recover after the initial pick-and-roll action puts your defense in rotation. You can't play drop coverage while also having multiple diminutive guards. That's what happened to Milwaukee, the Lakers and Cleveland, not to mention Atlanta, Sacramento and Toronto.

[NatP4]

Rudy never should’ve switched onto Luka. That was a bizarre and awful coaching decision/mistake in execution. Minnesota was up 2, should’ve outright doubled off of Lively, forced the pass, and rotate down and foul Lively/let him shoot.

The other half of that is in drop coverage, Luka and Haliburton(lesser extent) have been elite in pick and roll playmaking. Luka makes all of the correct reads against hedging/trapping/doubling, and manipulates the backend of the defense.

Minnesota would love it if Dallas were to switch everything on Edwards, instead of hedging and recovering and leaving a drop C rim protector down in the paint. Those are the games in which he gets to go be a 1 on 1 isolation scorer and drop 40+ on Denver.

[NatP4]

I'd say we are also seeing that if you are to succeed defensively in a drop coverage scheme, you really need a bunch of long wings who can help and recover after the initial pick-and-roll action puts your defense in rotation. You can't play drop coverage while also having multiple diminutive guards. That's what happened to Milwaukee, the Lakers and Cleveland, not to mention Atlanta, Sacramento and Toronto.

It pairs well with a gameplan of loading up on a primary scorer in ball screen coverage, and somewhat neglecting the role players/open shooters.

The shift back to drop coverage will continue to place a premium on true primary option playmakers that can make all the reads in PNR/fast processing, and manipulate the back end of the D(hello Topic).

[nate33]

Rudy never should’ve switched onto Luka. That was a bizarre and awful coaching decision/mistake in execution. Minnesota was up 2, should’ve outright doubled off of Lively, forced the pass, and rotate down and foul Lively/let him shoot.

Hindsight is 20/20. If they double Luka, he might hit the pass to Lively for a dunk before Minnesota can get to him. Or maybe Luka hits the corner 3 guy for a wide open look because his defender is tagging Lively on the roll. As you said, drop coverage can be defeated by an elite playmaker like Luka or Haliburton. Somebody is always open.

It's why, for years, the drop coverage teams held up fine in the regular season and into the early rounds of the playoffs, but the elite teams can beat it late into a playoff run. There's a reason why one of Miami or Golden State has been in 8 of the last 9 Finals (and the other one involved Phoenix, who also switches defensively). A good switching team is versatile enough to defeat any opponent. Drop coverage teams often have a vulnerability to certain types of players.

[NatP4]

True, but Lively was also 20 feet from the basket. Can’t give that switch up so easily, especially when it’s Rudy freaking Gobert 1 on 1 on an island.

Switch everything teams have a vulnerability to all kinds of things. Elite 1 on 1 scorers (Steph Curry for years), and rebounding/paint defense. Anthony Edwards abused switches from Murray/MPJ/Gordon in the Denver series, and KAT abused the offensive glass over and over. The only distinctly non-drop coverage team in the playoffs was Cleveland, and they got abused inside, and really missed Jarrett Allen.

Another point: drop coverage schemes lead to huge performances from the role players, spotting up for open shots or cutting. Guys like: PJ Washington, Derrick Jones, Naz Reid, McDaniels etc…

[NatP4]

The question is: given the current state of the NBA, which team do the wizards want to build?

I like that Avdija and Coulibaly can fit into either scheme.

[nate33]

The question is: given the current state of the NBA, which team do the wizards want to build?

I think the answer to that question depends upon who we obtain as a star player.

Drop coverage works best if there are no small guards who play lousy defense. If our star player is a small guard who plays lousy defense, then I wouldn't utilize a drop coverage scheme. Then you end up with the Atlanta Hawks and that doesn't work. But if our star player is a 2-way player, or at least a big guy like Luka, then a drop coverage scheme can be built around him.

[NatP4]

I think it also just greatly depends on who is playing the 5 for your team. Sarr? Switch everything/play big at the 1-4 positions (Coulibaly at the 2). Clingan? Drop. Gafford? Drop. Vukcevic? No idea, he’s pretty awful at both.

[payitforward]

Nat & nate: thanks for the intelligent discussion! One of the things that makes this Board such a pleasure!

[doclinkin]

Two drop coverage Cs.

No one is utilizing a switch everything defense.

Yeah, and Rudy's inability to switch effectively just cost them the game. Luka probably wouldn't have scored on Bam.

That said, you are making a good point that perhaps the NBA is progressing away from switch-everything schemes and moving back to more conventional drop coverage systems with more size in the paint. The demise of the Golden State Warriors and the emergence of Jokic and Embiid probably has something to do with this.

I'd say we are also seeing that if you are to succeed defensively in a drop coverage scheme, you really need a bunch of long wings who can help and recover after the initial pick-and-roll action puts your defense in rotation.

Hmm. Where have i read this observation before... I swear I have the feeling someone on this board predicted this 3 years ago.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Daniel Gafford

He's in the perfect spot. Lively is the better talent and he plays a few more minutes. Gafford doesn't have to worry about stamina issues. They both play all out without having foul issues.

Gafford is a premier rim protector and he and Lively each have great hands.

I seen earlier when guys were trying to minimise Gaff, that all he did was make slam dunks and go for blocks .....same with Dallas but he is intimidating Minnesota at the rim . He goes for blocks and got 5 tonight and they dont want to challenge him at the rim.

That's why I repeatedly post about Gafford. I recall the posts saying there's not much special about him.

He had 16 points and 5 blocks in 21 minutes going against Gobert and Towns. Several times I saw Minnesota players dribble towards the lane but once they saw Gafford they backed off. Especially Edwards. Gafford is an intimidating presence.

[LyricalRico]

Welp, it's officially Pacers and TWolves

Now I can go to bed early for a few nights before the Celtics/Mavs Finals.

[AFM]

BIG GAFFE!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A BEAST!!!!!!!

[NatP4]

Gafford is dominating Towns and Gobert.

[AFM]

GO GO GADGET GAFFORD aka 60 INCH VERTICAL GAFF

[NatP4]

33-7-5 on 20 shots for Doncic. Also had 5 steals.

[montestewart]

33-7-5 on 20 shots for Doncic. Also had 5 steals.

With the ball in his hands in crunch time he has that prime MJ/Kobe/LeBJ look of anything is possible, and he follows through. Three straight very exciting wins this series.

[NatP4]

KAT is averaging 0.2 blocks per36 and 56% TS in the playoffs.

Everyone is scapegoating the wrong guy. Gobert has been solid.

[montestewart]

KAT is averaging 0.2 blocks per36 and 56% TS in the playoffs.

Everyone is scapegoating the wrong guy. Gobert has been solid.

What are his KTG* numbers?

*Knee to groin