Political Roundtable Part XI

dckingsfan · Post #1781 » by **dckingsfan** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:18 pm

montestewart wrote:But that's politics, all black and white and cognitive dissonance.

Post #1782 » by **nate33** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:24 pm

montestewart wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
montestewart wrote:Nate, I think we've had this conversation before. Trump habitually references women either in gender-specific negatives or according to their looks. That's not in the past, that's now, that's who he is. If a person finds his characterizations of women persistently demeaning, she or he wouldn't have to feign outrage, although the Streep quote sounds more reasoned than outraged. Trump could try the same in his tweet response, but he really enjoys his pot stirring.

Hey Monte - is this confusing to you? It was to me... that someone could be so politically incorrect and still be a successful (getting elected) politician (I think there is a high degree of probability that he flames out).

I will give my two cents. The left (personified by indivuals like Streep) has preached for so long that they are now ignored by a large segment of the population. When they start to pontificate and he tweets a large part of the country cheers (or are entertained by their befuddlement).

I think this was personified again in a recent NY Times opinion piece on drought conditions in Africa. The piece put the blame on America and the responsibility on America. http://tinyurl.com/hox9kje

Trump is basically saying - America first. He doesn't care that global trade has lifted nearly a billion people out of poverty over the last 20 years. And neither do his constituents. And frankly, I don't think the globalists have done a good job explaining this... they haven't had any balance in the message. It has been - America, all the fault of the world's problems are yours.

Trump came in and said, nonsense. Their problems are their problems. That message was started by Obama in the middle east and resonated. Now Trump is just exploiting that same hole.

Anyway... I think that is why the left is getting tuned out in middle America.

I agree with a lot of this. Logical arguments arguments for and against don't necessarily intersect with reasons Trump was elected. I watched a few conservative friends and relatives employ mental shell games to dismiss this as an issue (much the way many liberals did with Bill Clinton's assaults) and vote Trump. Surprising is the wrong word, as the only surprising part was the success of the Trump Rust Belt strategy, so successful it reportedly surprised some Trump insiders and Trump himself.

Surprising or not, we will have as a president someone who has in one way or another repeatedly and quite openly called women who publicly disagrees with him ugly (including conservative women), and seems to have trouble praising a woman in any other way than to call her beautiful. That's seems to be how he sees women, beautiful or ugly. So many people either discount that as meaningful or are somehow unaware of that well documented aspect of their president-elect. But that's politics, all black and white and cognitive dissonance.

And yet he has a great track record of placing women in positions of power within his organization and campaign.

Post #1783 » by **montestewart** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:When did Trump disrespect Meryl Streep? If you're going to assume that his disrespect of some woman months or years ago, totally unrelated to Streep, is justification for Streep to attack Trump (with a false charge, I might add), then spare me the shock when Trump fights back.

I'm at a loss for words when you post things like this. It diminishes your thoughtful comments.

Streep uses an inappropriate public venue to attack Trump (with false accusations). I don't really have much of a problem with it because liberals in a bubble are gonna act like liberals in a bubble. What confuses me is the outrage expressed by you, montestewart and others that Trump responded with his Twitter account. This is what Trump does. He attempts to force any and all critics to pay a price for attacking him. It's a strategy that has worked for him for decades.

Maybe the strategy won't work as President. But since it worked for him in the primary and the general election, I'm not at all surprised that he's going to keep doing it. And it won't surprise me if it ends up working in the long run.

Calling my opinions outrage is kind of a straw man. I just looked up the definition of outrage just to make sure I hadn't forgotten what it meant. I think Trump's discourse has corralled his followers into a relentless LeBJ-Heat era "You Mad" approach to anyone that disagrees with anything about their guy. If anyone who disagrees with him is outraged, it's so much easier to characterize those disagreements as irrational. So why exactly are my comments "outrage?"

I was only responding regarding the Streep quote, and know nothing about the context or venue. I'm neither outraged nor surprised that Trump responds with tweets. But successful is not necessarily good. Many drug cartels, tyrants, homicides, etc. are successful. Many of the things Trump did successfully to get elected were not good, but now we will all call them good because he was elected? Unless his sole goal in office is to maintain and perhaps expand his constituency for reelection, with his tweets hopefully contributing, maybe they are counterproductive in other areas. At some point a "Meryl, let's talk, we both support veterans and want to improve America." tweet might do him better. Who knows?

Trump and his tweets seems like a child star ready to flame out at any moment. We will see, as hands would say.

Post #1784 » by **montestewart** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:35 pm

nate33 wrote:
montestewart wrote:Trump blah blah blah

And yet he has a great track record of placing women in positions of power within his organization and campaign.

The evidence I've seen to support that is primarily claims from Trump, the Trump campaign, various Trump-controlled companies and organizations, and some women who work for Trump. Maybe it's true, but until I see more, I'm skeptical.

Wizardspride · Post #1785 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:54 pm

I just had to.....

http://www.miseeharris.com/trump-supporter-celebrates-obamacare-repeal-then-realizes-he-is-on-obamacare/

closg00 · Post #1786 » by **closg00** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:13 pm

montestewart wrote:
nate33 wrote:
montestewart wrote:Trump blah blah blah

And yet he has a great track record of placing women in positions of power within his organization and campaign.

The evidence I've seen to support that is primarily claims from Trump, the Trump campaign, various Trump-controlled companies and organizations, and some women who work for Trump. Maybe it's true, but until I see more, I'm skeptical.

Remember that Trump likes to be around attractive women, that's why he bought the Ms Universe patent and why he hires woman based on their looks. Google Trump hiring practices Maralago.

Wizardspride · Post #1787 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:30 pm

Read on Twitter

Wizardspride · Post #1788 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:31 pm

Read on Twitter

gtn130 · Post #1789 » by **gtn130** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:38 pm

Read on Twitter

But why didn't Wikileaks share those with the world? Such a noble and virtuous organization that we can trust more than our own institutions surely would have passed that along in the name of transparency.

Wizardspride · Post #1790 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:54 pm

Read on Twitter

Wizardspride · Post #1791 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:59 pm

Read on Twitter

TGW · Post #1792 » by **TGW** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:22 pm

Obama is leaving office as an inspirational, popular figure, despite the divisiveness in this country. It really is a testament to how solid he was as a President. Whether you approved or disapproved with his decisions, he was an overall respected leader not only in the US, but to the world.

Wizardspride · Post #1793 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:27 pm

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Wizardspride · Post #1794 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:28 pm

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gtn130 · Post #1795 » by **gtn130** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:34 pm

Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter

CC: Induveca

Wizardspride · Post #1796 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:35 pm

Read on Twitter

tontoz · Post #1797 » by **tontoz** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:37 pm

TGW wrote:Obama is leaving office as an inspirational, popular figure, despite the divisiveness in this country. It really is a testament to how solid he was as a President. Whether you approved or disapproved with his decisions, he was an overall respected leader not only in the US, but to the world.

Keep in mind that the Presidents before and after him are Dubya and Trump. Pretty easy to look good in that company.

Wizardspride · Post #1798 » by **Wizardspride** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:40 pm

Read on Twitter

TGW · Post #1799 » by **TGW** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:50 pm

tontoz wrote:
TGW wrote:Obama is leaving office as an inspirational, popular figure, despite the divisiveness in this country. It really is a testament to how solid he was as a President. Whether you approved or disapproved with his decisions, he was an overall respected leader not only in the US, but to the world.

Keep in mind that the Presidents before and after him are Dubya and Trump. Pretty easy to look good in that company.

Well considering he had to cleanup one's mess, and is tutoring the other, I'd say he's done a pretty solid job. The American people think so too.

DCZards · Post #1800 » by **DCZards** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:58 pm

tontoz wrote:
TGW wrote:Obama is leaving office as an inspirational, popular figure, despite the divisiveness in this country. It really is a testament to how solid he was as a President. Whether you approved or disapproved with his decisions, he was an overall respected leader not only in the US, but to the world.

Keep in mind that the Presidents before and after him are Dubya and Trump. Pretty easy to look good in that company.

It's clear that many Americans give Obama props for cleaning up the mess that Dubya left behind...and his popularity rating was in the mid-50s long before Trump was elected.

Edit to add: Just saw TGW's response. I guess in this case great minds do indeed think alike.