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Political Roundtable Part XVIII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1781 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:14 pm

nate33 wrote:Because securing a perimeter and ensuring there are zero guns is even better than arming people to defend themselves against bad guys. The problem is, in most public spaces, you can't effectively secure the perimeter and incorporate metal detectors. But when you can, by all means do so.

I don't know why you think you've got the NRA in some sort of gotcha logic trap. Your attempt is pathetic.


Cool cool cool.





Trump wants to eliminate gun free zones because they're Very Dangerous (and sick!). In that first clip he's talking specifically about military bases with armed guards and security checkpoints.

I suppose this is the one time in history you disagree with Dear Leader?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1782 » by dckingsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:16 pm

montestewart wrote:I'm new in town. What's an RWNJ? (Is it a family-friendly term?)

Silly :)

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1783 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 pm

montestewart wrote:I'm new in town. What's an RWNJ? (Is it a family-friendly term?)


Right Wing Nut Job
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1784 » by dckingsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

Here is Bernie's solution or non-solution. Zonk for POTUS!

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/will-anyone-be-the-bernie-sanders-of-gun-control-215674

If you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.


And well said by Politico:

Any serious attempt to address gun violence at the source has to address the accessibility of handguns. But what you mostly hear from gun control proponents—even from the farthest left edge of the Democratic Party—are the more politically palatable but narrower policies for a stronger background check system and an assault weapons ban. This is not going to solve the problem of gun violence. Not even close.


Mostly the left has no solutions on this...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1785 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

dckingsfan wrote:gtn - what is your solution(s) with regards to guns?


Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1786 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:25 pm

TGW wrote:
cammac wrote:Gates pleading guilty isn't really a surprise and neither is it happening on a Friday afternoon since it will unhinge the Trumpster and his tweets over the weekend! It puts tremendous pressure on Montfort to give up any information he has and it must be concrete and verifiable or he is basically looking at a jail cell for the rest of his life. The information that Mueller wants is likely anything on Kushner, Donald Trump Jr., Trumpster, Jeff Sessions and conspiracy of lessor players.

Wonder what next Friday has in store 6 charges of American's or a Indictable European 5 guilty pleas.


it's a dog and pony show, cammac. if the information was there, Mueller would already have it. the establishment dems have been repeating the same junk for months now, and still there has not been any type of evidence proving collusion. it's just a lot of circumstantial evidence that wouldn't fly in courts.

Don't ya think it's important to find out the details of Manafort's money laundering? If Manafort's at the top of the chain, and nobody from the Trump admin was involved, then why should the Trump admin not want the investigation to be completed? It might give us a chance to better understand what Russia's done and be in a better position to stop them from using the same tactics in the future.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1787 » by dckingsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:30 pm

gtn130 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:gtn - what is your solution(s) with regards to guns?

Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.

It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1788 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:30 pm

gtn130 wrote:
montestewart wrote:I'm new in town. What's an RWNJ? (Is it a family-friendly term?)


Right Wing Nut Job

monte is a bit off balanced, but it's too harsh to call him right wing.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1789 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:34 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:gtn - what is your solution(s) with regards to guns?

Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.

It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.


Give me a break, man. The 2nd amendment doesn't legalize all things under the umbrella of 'gun'. Is a rocket launcher a gun? It's a rocket gun imo

You act like this is some massively complex legislative puzzle when it isn't.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1790 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:39 pm

1. Republican legislators loosen gun laws and block new ones from being passed at the behest of the NRA
2. Democrats do not have the perfect solution to gun control that makes 100% of Americans happy

dckingsfan: both sides are at fault here
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1791 » by stilldropin20 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:41 pm

nate33 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:Yikes. Why are you so angry over an idea to protect our children? Weird.

If it works or rock concerts sporting venues Hollywood award ceremonies and for Fox news and CNN news I think it’s worth trying at our schools to protect our children? I don’t know why you’re so post of that. Weird.


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Yikes. It's almost as if you're moving the goal posts and talking about something entirely different because you're a mouth-breathing RWNJ with zero self-awareness.

Explain why CPAC and NRA events prohibit licensed/legal gun owners from bringing their loaded weapons into the venues when they simultaneously advocate for arming more citizens for the purpose of safety.

Because securing a perimeter and ensuring there are zero guns is even better than arming people to defend themselves against bad guys. The problem is, in most public spaces, you can't effectively secure the perimeter and incorporate metal detectors. But when you can, by all means do so.

I don't know why you think you've got the NRA in some sort of gotcha logic trap. Your attempt is pathetic.


:lol: :lol: In bold. lol. Exactly Nate. on logic, that might be one of the weakest arguments ive seen here.

The 17 year olds at parkland brought more logic and their logic was pretty weak sauce.

here's the deal libtards. there are already too many guns on the street to confiscate. thats why we joke about door to door searches. and the bad guys dont care to follow the rules, anyway so they will hide their guns. Seizing guns only results in a higher proportion of bad people with guns.

There are many people like me who prefer to NOT BE VICTIMS have chosen to arm themselves in their home and now their person.


When i was younger and could still squat 400 pounds and bench 300, i used to use my fists. Now I carry. I will still use a conversation first, then fists if necessary. But i refuse to be a victim to anyone for anything.


let me tell you all a little story about my smoking hot, extremely liberal, artist, full throated and capable feminist, playboy model, amazing girlfriend. Of course she is still with me. duh! I'm awesome sauce and its been almost 5 years!! (thanks for asking, cammac and pointgod...lol) :D ....For christmas, her Mom bought her and I a membership at a local gun club as well as a bunch of shooting sessions with various weapons and a thousand rounds of ammo. her Mom is a full blown liberal, feminists, treehuggin, bernie, Hillary, walked with women, everything and everyone. yes our holidays are fun and yes we talk about politics at times. Anyhow she bought us the gun membership with multiple shooting sessions so her daughter can try many guns before buying a gun. she wants her daughters to protect themselves.

Again, she wants her daughter to pick out and buy a gun. She recently purchased her FOID card and will get a conceal and carry.

Because we choose not to be victims. We take our rights to life, liberty and our pursuit of happiness seriously. we are thankful. And we accept our 2nd amendment rights(and responsibilities) to defend ourselves. If something happens and our lives are threatened, We wont wait for police to show up. We wont depend on a police officer to decide or not to save us. we have our own damn guns and I have my own 2 hands and if our lives are in danger and we fear for our lives we will defend ourselves.

We dont look for trouble and we dont start no ****. But we dont take no **** either. none at all. I'm a man of the people. But amongst the good people there is always a hating, petty, lil bioch in the crowd. a lil bioch of a human being that can stand the fact that you have more than him and you are happy and he is not. So when those little biothes step, I dont run. from no one. And those lil biothes know who they are. they know. :nod: it aint hard to spot them. at all. they always whine and whine and complain and whine about everything. just like a lil bioch. :D

take home message. dont listen to the lil bioches.

and waiting for "cops" or anyone else to save you is a huge mistake. All of my patients are police officers. The all tell me the same thing. They are NOT allowed to be police anymore. not in the conventional sense. You have all seen the commercial where the dentists says, "oh i'm not a dentist I just tell you whats wrong." well cops dont police anymore. They have been robbed of their power by political apparatus' in charge locally and even nationally. They dont actively look for bad guys anymore and they dont engage shooters until they have a full blown swat team in place with full body armor and cover.

if bad person engages you, you are all you have to save your life. Fact. and bad guys usually are desperate lunatics and/or cowards. So they will have weapons or bring multiple people with them. they are usually desperate broke-dick lil bioches. just like the lil bioches that appologize for them and the lil bioches that dont want you to be able to defend yourself if a bad person engages you. so happy my mind and conscious is clear on this narrative. So happy i understand my god given and inalienable rights to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and to protect myself from anyone trying illegally take those right away from me. come at me bro!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1792 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:46 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:gtn - what is your solution(s) with regards to guns?

Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.

It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.

I'm obviously no expert on this subject, and I'm not pretending to be... so pardon my ignorance. And remember, what I say does not represent anyone but me. And I don't think it's helpful to split everyone up by political parties to come up with a solution.

Getting to my ignorant question: Are you saying unaltered hunting rifles can be used like automatic or semi-automatic weapons to fire off upwards of a hundred shots per minute?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1793 » by dckingsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:51 pm

gtn130 wrote:1. Republican legislators loosen gun laws and block new ones from being passed at the behest of the NRA
2. Democrats do not have the perfect solution to gun control that makes 100% of Americans happy

dckingsfan: both sides are at fault here

Okay - we are on the same page here... neither side has a solution. Both sides are just using it for political gain.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1794 » by stilldropin20 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
montestewart wrote:I'm new in town. What's an RWNJ? (Is it a family-friendly term?)

Silly :)

RWNJ = RealGM Women of New Jersey

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1795 » by dckingsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:59 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.

It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.

I'm obviously no expert on this subject, and I'm not pretending to be... so pardon my ignorance. And remember, what I say does not represent anyone but me. And I don't think it's helpful to split everyone up by political parties to come up with a solution.

Getting to my ignorant question: Are you saying unaltered hunting rifles can be used like automatic or semi-automatic weapons to fire off upwards of a hundred shots per minute?

No worries - you can buy a semi-automatic weapon that will discharge hundreds of shots per minute either - both because of the clip size and you aren't allowed to sell fully automatic weapons.

You can own a fully automatic weapon as long as it was made before May 19, 1986 - date of the legislative "freeze" automatic weapons. Also, it has to be registered and there is 200 or 300 dollar registration fee (or something close).

But, a fully automatic weapon isn't really necessary. A semi-automatic weapon can be just (if not more) effective.

Either way, it isn't terribly difficult to make a weapon fully automatic. What is more effective is the magazine size. Still, a couple of semi-automatic pistols would do much the same damage in the recent events (sans Las Vegas).

Hence why I like Zonk's idea. A safety test, background check and insurance would be a HUGE deterrent, IMO.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1796 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:10 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.

I'm obviously no expert on this subject, and I'm not pretending to be... so pardon my ignorance. And remember, what I say does not represent anyone but me. And I don't think it's helpful to split everyone up by political parties to come up with a solution.

Getting to my ignorant question: Are you saying unaltered hunting rifles can be used like automatic or semi-automatic weapons to fire off upwards of a hundred shots per minute?

No worries - you can buy a semi-automatic weapon that will discharge hundreds of shots per minute either - both because of the clip size and you aren't allowed to sell fully automatic weapons.

You can own a fully automatic weapon as long as it was made before May 19, 1986 - date of the legislative "freeze" automatic weapons. Also, it has to be registered and there is 200 or 300 dollar registration fee (or something close).

But, a fully automatic weapon isn't really necessary. A semi-automatic weapon can be just (if not more) effective.

Either way, it isn't terribly difficult to make a weapon fully automatic. What is more effective is the magazine size. Still, a couple of semi-automatic pistols would do much the same damage in the recent events (sans Las Vegas).

Hence why I like Zonk's idea. A safety test, background check and insurance would be a HUGE deterrent, IMO.

Ok, I thought a tax was a key part of his idea - and that's what turned me off - I don't think a tax is constitutional or even a good idea regardless of whether it's consititutional. But as we discussed before, I'm 100% for saftety tests and background checks - just as long as the background checks disqualify SD20. Insurance - I wouldn't fight that to get an agreement.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1797 » by stilldropin20 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:13 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Ban everything but hand guns and hunting rifles. Heavily regulate those weapons that are still legal.

To enforce ban:

Year 1: govt buys back guns at 2x market value
Year 2: govt buys back guns at 1.5x market value
Year 3: govt buys back guns at market value
Year 4: said guns are banned and illegal

There would still be a small % of those weapons in circulation, but the overall results would be way fewer homicides, suicides and mass shootings.

All that being said, why does my solution matter? My point here has been that the NRA pro-gun arguments have all been made in bad faith - not that I have the perfect solution to gun violence.

It matters because beating up one side because they don't have a solution when your side has no solution is duplicitous.

Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.

Might be nice if the Ds actually stepped up with a solution vs. just using it as a political volley ball.

I'm obviously no expert on this subject, and I'm not pretending to be... so pardon my ignorance. And remember, what I say does not represent anyone but me. And I don't think it's helpful to split everyone up by political parties to come up with a solution.

Getting to my ignorant question: Are you saying unaltered hunting rifles can be used like automatic or semi-automatic weapons to fire off upwards of a hundred shots per minute?

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1798 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:22 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:1. Republican legislators loosen gun laws and block new ones from being passed at the behest of the NRA
2. Democrats do not have the perfect solution to gun control that makes 100% of Americans happy

dckingsfan: both sides are at fault here

Okay - we are on the same page here... neither side has a solution. Both sides are just using it for political gain.


No, man, the problem is caused by Republicans and the NRA, yet you somehow blame both sides as usual.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1799 » by Pointgod » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:26 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:1. Republican legislators loosen gun laws and block new ones from being passed at the behest of the NRA
2. Democrats do not have the perfect solution to gun control that makes 100% of Americans happy

dckingsfan: both sides are at fault here

Okay - we are on the same page here... neither side has a solution. Both sides are just using it for political gain.


Wouldn't it make more sense to look at the legislation put forth by Democrats vs legislation Republicans have put forth before concluding that neither side has a solution.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#1800 » by gtn130 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:27 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Your solution wouldn't get through because of the second amendment. You have no solution. And many hunting rifles have the same magazines and muzzle velocity as "assault rifles" they just don't look as cool.


You didn't ever address this. Why would the 2nd amendment prevent banning all non handguns and hunting rifles? Handguns are made for killing humans. That meets the 2A criteria.

I have yet to see a valid criticism of my plan.

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