Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[barelyawake]

Walk me through how Fultz helps. I assume there is a part two to that move.

Our problems are:

Defensive intensity
Because bigs are injured
(solution — more mobile, defensive bigs — ones who can call others out for lack of intensity)

Because of team construction
(Solution - Fire the GM)

Because of rotation
(Solution - Fire the coach)


General lack of unity
Because of no leadership
(Solution - Bring-in leaders and Fire the coach)


Our most expensive piece is checked out
Because the press is against him
(Change the story of the team with personnel changes)

Because he’s learned bad habits playing without a big to play off of.
(Get him a target — along with Howard —- who can make the game fun again. Rebounds to fast breaks. Blocks to fast breaks. Defense to fast breaks. Get a new coach in his ear. Hopefully an ex-point guard).

The Refs aren’t giving Wall star calls on drives
(Increase the PR of the organization by changing personnel. Have Wall drive less — in the halfcourt —and pass more, by giving him better targets. Fastbreak more via increased rebounding and playing better defense. Clear path is better than a 50/50 whistle, especially when the refs are against you.


Our backcourt are blaming each other for losing.
(Bring in someone to change the story. Either trade for a guy like Jokic or AD — neither are happening. Or at least bring in a someone who has the cred to guide the way.)


Ariza was already our savior one season when we started off slow. Nene was one year. Ariza was another. Pierce made sure we didn’t get off to a slow start by getting techs in pre-season games. That’s the guy we are missing. Gasol, Aldridge, Milsap, Ariza, Tristan. Most of this guys are going to be available soon. We need The Birdman of the team. The guy who comes off the bench during slumps and wills the team to wins, and cheers them into playing to potential.

This season is very much saveable if we do what we should have done years ago, give Wall what he wants (A mobile, defensive center who can finish alleys, rebound and kick the fast break).

Done my turkey, and bourbon, induced rant.

[truwizfan4evr]

why would yall want Fultz? especially for Beal, i rather keep beal on this team anyway.

[Illmatic12]

Keef for Fultz. Who says no?

We'd have until next Octobe to decide whether Fultz is salvageable and worth picking up his option for the following season.

The crazy thing is that doesn’t even get us under the tax, Fultz has a higher salary than Keef! Very expensive to take a flier on for a player who will probably have a total of ~35 NBA appearances on film before his 3rd year option date.

Fultz is a Dematha grad and it would be a great story to bring him here and rehabilitate his game. But I’m worried about all the baggage and the people he has around him.

[Dat2U]

I suggested Fultz as a method for dumping Morris which I think benefits this team. Rumors have linked Philly as having interest in Morris.

I expect nothing from Fultz this season. He's a gamble but only financially. Get him the physical and mental help he needs and see how the offseason goes and if he doesn't have it together by next training camp, turn down the team option and buy him out if he's not playable.

[Illmatic12]

This is sounds like a hot take but longterm Philly may be better off trading Simmons FOR Beal, or a Devin Booker type.

That's actually a very intriguing idea. It really would make a lot of sense for Philly. I know they're confident that they're a "team of the future" but there are some reasons to be concerned that the Simmons/Embiid pairing will never be ideal. Sometimes while waiting for the future, you miss out on a present opportunity. That opportunity could be right now. Trading Simmons for a All-Star SG in his prime could really balance their roster nicely. We could certainly throw in Jeff Green to give them a capable PF to fill in for Simmons at a negligible salary.

Would they just go with with Redick and McConnell at PG, assuming that Butler and Beal could carry much of the ball-handling load? They could trade Fultz for another wing for depth.

Redick/McConnell
Beal/Redick
Butler/trade
Green/Muscala
Embiid/Muscala

Or they could try and rehabilitate Fultz and look to trade Redick for another forward.

We would do it as part of a total rebuild. Trade Wall for picks (and maybe Porter too) and build around Simmons.

I figure they could start Beal/Redick/Butler as the nominal 1/2/3 and have plenty of ball handling. Beal and Butler are ~80-90th percentile as PnR ballhandlers (which is part of the issue with Simmons - he can’t run PnR with Embiid but still takes the ball out of Jimmy’s hands)

And yeah this would ofc only be if Washington has a Wall trade lined up. Simmons game wouldn’t mesh with Wall , and also they’re both high profile Klutch Sports clients who would cannabalize each other from a marketing standpoint.

[pcbothwel]

We really are in a hold pattern with any trades.
I'd look to move Oubre/Morris/Rivers to cut salary... but if we choose to trade one of our core, then the savings might not be needed. Sort of a chicken or egg situation.

Also, firing brooks really provides no benefit to Teds wallet, nor do we get any real coach in here to implement anything on short notice.
So really the only thing to do would be make drastic changes to playing time/lineups. Oubre as the Starter and Sato/Brown getting minutes over Rivers/Kieff is a good start.
See how the team responds over the next few weeks before looking to trade after 12/15.

Obviously, FO/firing EG is the best move.
I dont think I trade any of our core 3 this year. Wall as the kicker and Otto's stock is too low. Both will have higher value next summer.
Beal could be moved, but I dont see a great fit either now that Philly made their move and LAL has zero interesting assets outside of Hart.
I still like Orlando and Charlotte as possible partners as they have their picks and Isaac/Bridges.

Kings trade seems too perfect with Oubre & Morris... but I guess we'll see.

[payitforward]

This is sounds like a hot take but longterm Philly may be better off trading Simmons FOR Beal, or a Devin Booker type.

That's actually a very intriguing idea. ...

...We would do it as part of a total rebuild. Trade Wall for picks (and maybe Porter too) and build around Simmons.

Oh absolutely! Sign me up... but, I think a team would have to be really shortsighted to trade Simmons for Beal.

Just look at the numbers Ben Simmons is putting up this year. I think a few people were saying that he'd have trouble keeping up his productivity once the league had scouted him thoroughly, but in fact he's even a little better this year than last.

Simmons is a far better player than Bradley Beal -- & that is no criticism of Brad!

But the combination of 9.25 assists & 11+ rebounds per 40 minutes is not something you can find again. & his TS% this season is exactly the same as Brad's. (Brad's usage is much higher of course)

He's also 22 & on a rookie contract -- though for sure he'll get a max deal.

Anyway, yes please -- I'd be happy to rebuild around Ben Simmons. You couldn't ask for a better start to the process. Once Ernie has been shown the door, that is.

[gambitx777]

Broken shot. Yes. But "mentally unstable." Why do you say that?

ESPN and fox news has been pushing the story that its all in his head, and that he has a mental issue not an ability issue. the kids 20 years old. how many of us had our **** together at 20 ? give the kid a break.

Agree 1000% -- not just 20 years old, but 20 years old & a guaranteed mega-millionaire.

Honestly, it's a miracle to me that any of these kids keeps his head straight & his feet on the ground.

But, that's not the same as "mentally unstable."

edit: don't get me wrong -- I'd love to be 20 & mega-millionaire! Come to think of it, either one would do just fine! But, if forced to choose, I'd take being 20 again over being a mega-millionaire!

Bro if we could take what we know now and go back to being 20, we would all be mega millionaires. lol

[gambitx777]

Keef for Fultz. Who says no?

We'd have until next October to decide whether Fultz is salvageable and worth picking up his option for the following season.

I assume Philly says no.

Both players are actively detrimental to their team's success at the moment, but Fultz is 20 years old and has a first overall pick pedigree which at least gives one hope that he could figure things out. If nothing else, from a PR perspective, Philly would look really bad trading a #1 overall pick for an expiring contract just 1.5 seasons after drafting him.

Agreed. They need to trade him to a capped out team for a bigger expiring and pick. They need the asset, but just as importantly, they need the max spot. They have about 20M in cap room with Fultz and Jimmy Butler 30M cap hold. They get to about 28M by trading Fultz and that really makes Philly interesting

Butler, Simmons, Embiid, Zhaire, Shamet, Bolden, 2019 1st, and 28M in cap space is big time. Harris and Walker fit great as FAs...

I mean they could feel like its open enough in the east to take a shot by going to a big upgrade at pg now.

[payitforward]

Simmons is their PG. John Wall is not an upgrade over Ben Simmons. John Wall is a downgrade from Ben Simmons.

[nate33]

Simmons is their PG. John Wall is not an upgrade over Ben Simmons. John Wall is a downgrade from Ben Simmons.

Yup. Wall doesn't help them. The only type of "point guard" that might help them would be a 3&D PG in the Patrick Beverly/Malcolm Brogdon mold. They need a guy who will D up, hit some open 3's, and maybe run a pick-and-roll from time to time. Bradley Beal is actually perfect. Sato wouldn't be so bad either.

[Dark Faze]

You've got to hope John would waive the kicker for the right situation. For Phoenix I'm sure he would --it's as good a fit as he's going to get.

I'd take Ryan Anderson and a top 3 protected first, as I know Phoenix doesn't want to miss the chance to grab Zion/Barrett/Reddish.

[Qwigglez]

You've got to hope John would waive the kicker for the right situation. For Phoenix I'm sure he would --it's as good a fit as he's going to get.

I'd take Ryan Anderson and a top 3 protected first, as I know Phoenix doesn't want to miss the chance to grab Zion/Barrett/Reddish.

I'd probably do it for the Suns. This way, the Suns have a little bit of cap space over the summer to sign someone up to $12M if they choose.
What's the front office thinking for the Wizards? I heard Wall addressed the trade rumors and said he wants to stay in D.C, do you think it's true or do you think he's just putting on a face?
I'm also hearing Wall is a locker room cancer, but I"m not sure if he's just butting heads with certain players or if he's the one behind everything.

I think the Suns need to take a risk here though, they aren't going to land a primetime star in free agency, and they really only need a PG to shore up their starting lineup. (Wall/Booker/Bridges/Warren/Ayton).

[FAH1223]

You've got to hope John would waive the kicker for the right situation. For Phoenix I'm sure he would --it's as good a fit as he's going to get.

I'd take Ryan Anderson and a top 3 protected first, as I know Phoenix doesn't want to miss the chance to grab Zion/Barrett/Reddish.

I'd probably do it for the Suns. This way, the Suns have a little bit of cap space over the summer to sign someone up to $12M if they choose.
What's the front office thinking for the Wizards? I heard Wall addressed the trade rumors and said he wants to stay in D.C, do you think it's true or do you think he's just putting on a face?
I'm also hearing Wall is a locker room cancer, but I"m not sure if he's just butting heads with certain players or if he's the one behind everything.

I think the Suns need to take a risk here though, they aren't going to land a primetime star in free agency, and they really only need a PG to shore up their starting lineup. (Wall/Booker/Bridges/Warren/Ayton).

John loves DC. Its where his deceased father is from. He does a lot in the community. He's laid his roots here. He also is big into the night life and he's gotten sucked into that lifestyle of partying ever since entering the NBA.

The Wizards front office is the worst in the NBA and has been for over a decade. The same man is the architect and should have been fired 3-4 times now. They aren't going to deal John Wall as they stand pat and Ted Leonsis is an owner that is cautious about making big changes as he's too loyal.

In the locker room, its clear Wall isn't a leader of men. He also isn't making the adjustments in his playing style such as moving/cutting without the ball in the half court. We have a much less talented PG, Tomas Satoransky, who has superior half court basketball habits... its crazy watching how night and day they are with Wall. Never the less, John is still an amazing talent, a game changing talent, who has been failed by this organization because he has never had a coach who ran a good motion offensive system. Budenholzer in DC would have done wonders, for example.

John isn't a lazy player. He works hard. His shot has improved and he is taking more 3s and attempts at the rim/in the paint. But his defense is inconsistent and he gambles too much.

[nate33]

You've got to hope John would waive the kicker for the right situation. For Phoenix I'm sure he would --it's as good a fit as he's going to get.

I'd take Ryan Anderson and a top 3 protected first, as I know Phoenix doesn't want to miss the chance to grab Zion/Barrett/Reddish.

I'd probably do it for the Suns. This way, the Suns have a little bit of cap space over the summer to sign someone up to $12M if they choose.
What's the front office thinking for the Wizards? I heard Wall addressed the trade rumors and said he wants to stay in D.C, do you think it's true or do you think he's just putting on a face?
I'm also hearing Wall is a locker room cancer, but I"m not sure if he's just butting heads with certain players or if he's the one behind everything.

I think the Suns need to take a risk here though, they aren't going to land a primetime star in free agency, and they really only need a PG to shore up their starting lineup. (Wall/Booker/Bridges/Warren/Ayton).

It really does seem like a win-win trade all around. I don't know if it's possible, but if Wall could waive all but $6.3M of the rumored $20M trade kicker, then the deal works. From Wall's perspective, he gets a $6.3M bonus to join a team that's tailor made for him.

The Wizards could then try and move Morris and Howard for anything they can get and just try and finish out the year with hungry young guys while tanking for a second lotto pick. Maybe they move Porter too, but I'd at least wait and see if he'll play better as more shot opportunities come his way. (I figure Rivers is unmovable and a good tank commander anyway.) If all goes well, they end up with maybe the 5th and 7th pick in this draft (and a not insignificant shot at a top 3 pick in the lottery), they avoid the luxtax next year, and set themselves up for a move in free agency in 2020 when Mahinmi and Anderson come off the books.

[rl25g]

Is it wrong for really wanting Elie Okobo in a Sun's deal ? 2nd round pick on a 4 year contract, only 19.

Okobo, Anderson, Top 3 first for Wall and Smith

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[Dark Faze]

Is it wrong for really wanting Elie Okobo in a Sun's deal ? 2nd round pick on a 4 year contract, only 19.

Okobo, Anderson, Top 3 first for Wall and Smith

im not trying to reach for too much, top 3 protected is good enough for me, get this contract off our books

Markieff Morris for Markelle Fultz? Sit him the whole year and pray he can get right. If not, cut him.

[nate33]

A trade that could make some sense if Wall is dumped would be Oubre for Fultz. The Sixers need more wings and don't need a ball-dominant PG who can't shoot.

We do it because it beats letting Oubre walk for nothing and we have the possibility that Fultz gets his act together and starts looking like the #1 overall prospect that he was believed to be two summers ago. We also get to move Troy Brown into the active rotation.

Assuming Wall was traded for Phoenix' pick, we could end up with 2 high lotto picks this summer plus Fultz to add to the core of Sato, Beal, Brown, Porter and Bryant. How's that for a quick rebuild?

[Induveca]

Looks like a guaranteed high lotto pick team. Just good enough to win 30-35.

I’d prefer to ship out Porter as well ASAP, preferably tonight’s showing convinces other teams he just need as new environment.

Never forget....this is his 6th year. Get value while you can for that insanely foolish contract.