Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0

[tontoz]

Bipolar game from Wall last night. Too many bricked jumpers/turnovers (some really bad) but he made a lot of good plays too. I definitely don't like seeing him take 18 shots, far more than anyone else.

[jivelikenice]

^I liked it. His aggressiveness creates opportunites for himself (obviously) and others around him. Buckhantz said it best....he sucks the defense in which is what creates so many open shots for teamates. His shotobviously isn't fixed, but won't normally be that bad (IMO)...

Some bad turnovers, but I'll take the turnovers for that type of performance and aggressiveness. And I'll take a bipolar game with a +21

[ST21]

i was disappointed in walls play again last night. the last 5 or 6 games he has gone back to playing completely out of control basketball. he had 6 turnovers last night. his jump shooting is simply not improving. there was one sequence last night where he took 3 wide open jumpshots in a row bricked all three terribly and there was not a knick defender within 10 feet. he took 18 shots to get 21 points.

i will give him props for his ability to drive, collapse the d and kick to open shooters but that's about all he can do on offense other than go coast to coast fast break. and he really isn't even that good at finishing at the basket imo. i don't know the exact numbers but he seems to miss a lot of layups.

he did make his free throws last night which was good to see but overall he's disappointing in that department as well.

overall i just see the same exact player he was when he came out of college. what part of his game has he developed? where has he shown any sign of improvement? i thought year 3 was going to be the make or break year for wall and so far he isn't taking that next step i thought he would.

as others have mentioned i think the only way wall can be an all-star is if he plays with 1 or 2 other elite scores that he can dish to because he simply isn't good enough offensively to get to that level on his own. maybe Beal can be that guy eventually? he needs other players to make him look good and mask that offensive scoring deficiency.

[tontoz]

overall i just see the same exact player he was when he came out of college. what part of his game has he developed? where has he shown any sign of improvement?

He is changing paces more now instead of going full speed all the time. Other than that it is hard to find improvement.

[nate33]

i was disappointed in walls play again last night. the last 5 or 6 games he has gone back to playing completely out of control basketball. he had 6 turnovers last night. his jump shooting is simply not improving. there was one sequence last night where he took 3 wide open jumpshots in a row bricked all three terribly and there was not a knick defender within 10 feet.

i will give him props for his ability to drive, collapse the d and kick to open shooters but that's about all he can do on offense other than go coast to coast fast break. and he really isn't even that good at finishing at the basket imo. i don't know the exact numbers but he seems to miss a lot of layups.

he did make his free throws last night which was good to see but overall he's disappointing in that department as well.

overall i just see the same exact player he was when he came out of college. what part of his game has he developed? where has he shown any sign of improvement? i thought year 3 was going to be the make or break year for wall and so far he isn't taking that next step i thought he would.

as others have mentioned i think the only way wall can be an all-star is if he plays with 1 or 2 other elite scores that he can dish to because he simply isn't good enough offensively to get to that level on his own. maybe Beal can be that guy eventually? he needs other players to make him look good and mask that offensive scoring deficiency.

FWIW, Wall is quite good at finishing. His FG% at the rim is better than most PG's.

Here's a list of at rim FG% of all players last year. I used 100 attempts as a cutoff, and I eliminated everyone who was assisted at the rim more than 35% of the time to weed out all of the forwards and bigs. Basically, it left me with a list of PG's and primary ball-handlers. Wall ranks 10th out of the 31 players in FG%, and he gets to the rim way more than everybody else except Westbrook.

http://bkref.com/tiny/itGEy

[Jimmy Recard]

^I liked it. His aggressiveness creates opportunites for himself (obviously) and others around him. Buckhantz said it best....he sucks the defense in which is what creates so many open shots for teamates. His shotobviously isn't fixed, but won't normally be that bad (IMO)...

Some bad turnovers, but I'll take the turnovers for that type of performance and aggressiveness. And I'll take a bipolar game with a +21

+1

[fishercob]

Mike Prada at his best with a fantastic breakdown of Wall coming through in the clutch last night.

Even cooler that Wall broke the play down with him and is quoted in the piece.

[Nivek]

You're looking at numbers over the full season, which includes that horrific start. And that's a fine thing to do -- the Wizards are waaaaaay better with Wall than they've been for most of the season.

What I've been looking at is the team's performance with and without Wall, looking only at the time since his return. Looking only at that time period, the team has played better both with Wall on the floor AND with Wall on the bench. If we're giving Wall credit for the improvement when he's on the floor, we need a theory for why they're also better when he's on the bench (which was what we were seeing before last night's game).

Edit to add: The preceding was in response to DarkFaze's post on the previous page.

[tontoz]

Wall finishes fine at the rim. It is all the other shots from 3 feet out that he has a major problem with.

[GhostsOfGil]

FWIW, Wall is quite good at finishing. His FG% at the rim is better than most PG's.

Here's a list of at rim FG% of all players last year. I used 100 attempts as a cutoff, and I eliminated everyone who was assisted at the rim more than 35% of the time to weed out all of the forwards and bigs. Basically, it left me with a list of PG's and primary ball-handlers. Wall ranks 10th out of the 31 players in FG%, and he gets to the rim way more than everybody else except Westbrook.

http://bkref.com/tiny/itGEy

I've made this argument before as well, but one thing I failed to consider is that Wall gets A LOT of his inside attempt off fast break opportunities where he is only fighting one (off balance) defender. I have a feeling his % at the rim in half court sets is average at best.

[nate33]

FWIW, Wall is quite good at finishing. His FG% at the rim is better than most PG's.

Here's a list of at rim FG% of all players last year. I used 100 attempts as a cutoff, and I eliminated everyone who was assisted at the rim more than 35% of the time to weed out all of the forwards and bigs. Basically, it left me with a list of PG's and primary ball-handlers. Wall ranks 10th out of the 31 players in FG%, and he gets to the rim way more than everybody else except Westbrook.

http://bkref.com/tiny/itGEy

I've made this argument before as well, but one thing I failed to consider is that Wall gets A LOT of his inside attempt off fast break opportunities where he is only fighting one (off balance) defender. I have a feeling his % at the rim in half court sets is average at best.

That may be true, but you also aren't factoring all the free throw attempts he gets from driving to the basket. He shoots FT's at a 79% rate, and some of them are And 1's which really boost his scoring efficiency. I'm sure Wall is getting fouled at a much higher rate than guys like Mike Conley and Steve Nash.

[DCsOwn]

You're looking at numbers over the full season, which includes that horrific start. And that's a fine thing to do -- the Wizards are waaaaaay better with Wall than they've been for most of the season.

What I've been looking at is the team's performance with and without Wall, looking only at the time since his return. Looking only at that time period, the team has played better both with Wall on the floor AND with Wall on the bench. If we're giving Wall credit for the improvement when he's on the floor, we need a theory for why they're also better when he's on the bench (which was what we were seeing before last night's game).

Edit to add: The preceding was in response to DarkFaze's post on the previous page.

I'm not sure we really need a theory, it's pretty obvious that along with players simply playing better as the seasons progressed (Ariza in particular), John's return allowed for a more natural slotting of AJ Price thereby giving the second unit a functioning pg. Nene's gradual increase in minutes also allows for Randy to stagger him and Okafor's minutes more effectively, keeping at least one of them on the court for the majority of the game, and that generally gives us two viable low post options on the court at all times (Seraphin being the other), and that's boosted the teams half-court productivity with or without John on the court.

[Nivek]

I'm not sure we really need a theory, it's pretty obvious that along with players simply playing better as the seasons progressed (Ariza in particular), John's return allowed for a more natural slotting of AJ Price thereby giving the second unit a functioning pg. Nene's gradual increase in minutes also allows for Randy to stagger him and Okafor's minutes more effectively, keeping at least one of them on the court for the majority of the game, and that generally gives us two viable low post options on the court at all times (Seraphin being the other), and that's boosted the teams half-court productivity with or without John on the court.

These are good points, and I agree with them because...it's a nice summation of the point I've been making. The team's improvement is the result of a combination of factors, ONE of which is Wall's return.

[DCsOwn]

I'm not sure we really need a theory, it's pretty obvious that along with players simply playing better as the seasons progressed (Ariza in particular), John's return allowed for a more natural slotting of AJ Price thereby giving the second unit a functioning pg. Nene's gradual increase in minutes also allows for Randy to stagger him and Okafor's minutes more effectively, keeping at least one of them on the court for the majority of the game, and that generally gives us two viable low post options on the court at all times (Seraphin being the other), and that's boosted the teams half-court productivity with or without John on the court.

These are good points, and I agree with them because...it's a nice summation of the point I've been making. The team's improvement is the result of a combination of factors, ONE of which is Wall's return.

Agreed, and sorry if my post was redundant. I've been in and out of here because of a pretty busy work schedule, and I dont always take the time to read prior posts more than a page or two back.

[Nivek]

No need for any apology -- I hadn't made that point as clearly or succinctly as you did.

[tontoz]

Mike Prada at his best with a fantastic breakdown of Wall coming through in the clutch last night.

Even cooler that Wall broke the play down with him and is quoted in the piece.

Interesting breakdown. Just goes to show how much BBIQ comes into play. If both Nene and Wall didn't make the right read the play wouldn't come off.

[GhostsOfGil]

Great stuff from BF:
Kev getting a big time call out as well.

Measuring John Wall's statistical impact on the Wizards

[Nivek]

Dang, fish beat me to the comment I was going to make. Jake's article doesn't actually demonstrate WALL's statistical impact, it shows the change since Wall returned (which is not the same thing).

[fishercob]

Dang, fish beat me to the comment I was going to make. Jake's article doesn't actually demonstrate WALL's statistical impact, it shows the change since Wall returned (which is not the same thing).

Yeah, but you need to fill in the blanks with the actual numbers, I didn't want to rip off what you had just posted here.

[Higga]

Well now we're 8-7 with Wall, with another win over a contender.

The stats are great and all, but all I know is what I see and the team plays better with Wall. Numbers don't explain everything.