Washington @ Minnesota 3/6/2013 - 8:00

[dangermouse]

Portland = Rip City

Los Angeles = Lob City

Washington DC = Turnover Town

[Kanyewest]

Nene/Okafor should have had better games against Sietsma and Derrick Williams... although I guess down the stretch it was Williams and Cunnngham. If Washington turns the ball over like they did, then anyone can beat them including a shorthanded Minnesota who isn't all that sucky- they kept it close with Miami before Barea got thrown out.

Webster is effective but not at 41 minutes. Ariza is alright but he's not going to get you 25+ like Bradley Beal. AJ Price is ok for the league minimum but not sure I would take him over Ridnour or Barea (disregarding salary of course). Yes the Wizards should have won the game, but considering that they aren't making the playoffs anyways more ping pong balls for someone in the draft won't hurt.

Yes John Wall had 6 turnovers but not sure why Nene would have 7. Guess someone like Bradley Beal minimizes turnovers with his spacing, good passing so it may take time for the Wizards to adjust.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ—Rubio is not better than Wall...not at all. Stop with the bias.

I am not the only one and certainly not the first to say this. This is from 1/10/2012:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... _blog.html

Kornheiser and Wilbon say they’d take Ricky Rubio over John Wall

“Would you rather have Ricky Rubio or John Wall?” Michael Wilbon asked Tony Kornheiser on PTI Monday afternoon.

“Right now? Today? Right now, today?” Kornheiser responded. “Yes, I would, I’ll tell you why. John Wall, right now, today, can’t shoot, AND he’s a turnover machine, AND he’s completely out of control when he goes to the basket. Ricky Rubio — who you thought was a complete donkey and couldn’t play at all — seems to have the ball in his hands in the fourth quarter of every game, because he knows how to make a pass. A point guard’s first responsibility: make the pass.”

:Let me apologize to David Kahn first; I ripped him for drafting Ricky Rubio and then making him the face of the franchise,” Wilbon then said. “Ricky Rubio can flat-out pass it, and I should have listened when Earvin Magic Johnson and Tony Ronzone [said so].

“YES, I’d take him above John Wall right now. Fourteen assists yesterday. But John Wall has got NOTHING for teammates. Ricky Rubio has got guys who can finish. They go to the rim and put it down when he throws it up there. All apologies to Ricky Rubio, rookie of the year right now.”

There are other media outlets besides the Washington Post. Dime Magazine ran this:

http://dimemag.com/2012/01/whos-better- ... y-rubio/2/

WHO’S BETTER: JOHN WALL OR RICKY RUBIO?

http://dimemag.com/2012/01/whos-better- ... y-rubio/2/

Where Wall makes us gasp following every lightning quick move, Rubio makes us jump out of our seats because we don’t know why each pass he makes is perfect, nor how he does it. It’s creativity, genius and something we don’t understand that bring comparisons of Rubio to once-in-a-decade type of guys like John Stockton, Steve Nash and Pistol Pete.

There’s something about how Rubio passes the basketball that’s special. While Wall can also rack up the assists, he’s successful by way of making the right play: penetrate and kick if it’s there, or score the basketball if the defense doesn’t collapse. We can see why holes open up for Wall, but Rubio is different. He makes plays that aren’t there, sees things that happen before he’s supposed to.

I might not be right but here's another article, and this one has votes 3-1 favoring Rubio.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1020 ... -john-wall

Who would you rather have as your point guard on a playoff team?

Ricky Rubio
76.0%
John Wall
24.0%
Total votes: 2,387

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Rubio is a better point guard than John Wall and that's a fact right now. Even if John develops a consistent jumper, he's not going to be a better point guard, just a better shooter.

[closg00]

Rubio is a better point guard than John Wall and that's a fact right now. Even if John develops a consistent jumper, he's not going to be a better point guard, just a better shooter.

+1 Rubio is better, especially in the half-court.

[AFM]

Rubio averages 9 and 7 on 34% shooting, 17% from 3 and 3.2 TO per game. I don't see how he's that good.

[tontoz]

Rubio averages 9 and 7 on 34% shooting, 17% from 3 and 3.2 TO per game. I don't see how he's that good.

He's not. His career 35% from the field makes Wall look good.

[DCZards]

I won't get into the Wall vs. Rubio debate. Rubio had an impressive game last night with some nice passes, especially down the strecth, and Wall struggled, again, with late turnovers. Neither one of them is much of shooter.

As for Wilbon and Kornheiser's comments, which are from more than a year ago, I think this comment by someone responding to their opinions of Rubio/Wall pretty much speaks for me as well. It's especially true of Kornheiser.

Kornheiser and Wilbon know about as much basketball as Andray Blatche knows about nuclear physics. Wilbon has a tendency to take someone else's opinion (Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jon Barry) and make it his own.

[closg00]

I won't get into the Wall vs. Rubio debate. Rubio had an impressive game last night with some nice passes, especially down the strecth, and Wall struggled, again, with late turnovers. Neither one of them is much of shooter.

As for Wilbon and Kornheiser's comments, which are from more than a year ago, I think this comment by someone responding to their opinions of Rubio/Wall pretty much speaks for me as well. It's especially true of Kornheiser.

Kornheiser and Wilbon know about as much basketball as Andray Blatche knows about nuclear physics. Wilbon has a tendency to take someone else's opinion (Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jon Barry) and make it his own.

On this I think we can all agree.

[Nivek]

Rubio rates solidly ahead of Wall in my stat system. Neither can shoot and both are turnover machines, but Rubio turns it over a bit less and assists a bit more. Rubio also generates significantly more steals. Big thing: Rubio shoots a lot less frequently than Wall, which means his poor shooting hurts less than Wall's does.

Don't know that I'd necessarily take Rubio over Wall. He's a little better at the moment, so I can definitely see the argument. Both guys need to reduce turnovers and improve their shooting.

[TGW]

Kornheiser and Wilbon? Really CCJ...might as well provided a link to Bert and Ernie's opinion on the subject.

Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Rubio is an atrocious shooter...even worse than Wall. He's touted for his passing, but they have similar assist to turnover ratios. I guess Rubio's 7 assists per game are more exciting? Who knows.

Advanced stats say Wall is better. By a fair margin IMO.



I know it's the "in" thing to pile on Wall, but the Wizards wouldn't have been close if it wasn't for him last night. He was hitting shots and getting players in the flow of the offense. If anything, it was Nene/Okafor who were getting outworked on the glass and Webster missing a few open threes that he normally makes that did them in.

[Nivek]

PER rewards players who shoot more frequently if the make ~30% of their shots. On a per minute basis, adjusted for pace, Rubio comes out ahead of Wall in good statistical analysis. The margin isn't huge, but it's there. Both guys need to reduce turnovers and learn how to shoot. I don't think the difference between them is enough to warrant a trade (even hypothetical), especially considering Wall's considerable upside.

[TGW]

PER rewards players who shoot more frequently if the make ~30% of their shots. On a per minute basis, adjusted for pace, Rubio comes out ahead of Wall in good statistical analysis. The margin isn't huge, but it's there. Both guys need to reduce turnovers and learn how to shoot. I don't think the difference between them is enough to warrant a trade (even hypothetical), especially considering Wall's considerable upside.

Throwing PER aside (because I agree), Wall has a higher TS%, efg% (by a large margin), TRB%, offensive and defensive ratings. Rubio has a higher ast% (by a tiny margin) and a higher steals %. I can't see how the stats aren't demonstrably in Wall's favor.

[tontoz]

Big thing: Rubio shoots a lot less frequently than Wall, which means his poor shooting hurts less than Wall's does.

While that is a good point it could be at least partially a function of playing with better scorers. With Love and Pekovic out last night Rubio was forced to be more aggressive and went 4-15. With Love out i think Rubio's lack of shooting is a much bigger problem.

[Nivek]

PER rewards players who shoot more frequently if the make ~30% of their shots. On a per minute basis, adjusted for pace, Rubio comes out ahead of Wall in good statistical analysis. The margin isn't huge, but it's there. Both guys need to reduce turnovers and learn how to shoot. I don't think the difference between them is enough to warrant a trade (even hypothetical), especially considering Wall's considerable upside.

Throwing PER aside (because I agree), Wall has a higher TS%, efg% (by a large margin), TRB%, offensive and defensive ratings. Rubio has a higher ast% (by a tiny margin) and a higher steals %. I can't see how the stats aren't demonstrably in Wall's favor.

Rubio is actually the better rebounder. He also commits fewer turnovers, generates twice as many steals and shoots less frequently, which means that his crappy shooting uses fewer possessions than Wall's crappy shooting. In effect, Rubio's inefficiency is less damaging because he uses fewer possessions.

[pancakes3]

So we've completely given up on the Kyrie Irving comparisons then?

[TheKingOfVa360]

If Rubio was on our team all we would hear is CCJ saying let's trade Rubio and Rubio can't shoot. The grass isn't always greener.

[TGW]

Rubio is actually the better rebounder. He also commits fewer turnovers, generates twice as many steals and shoots less frequently, which means that his crappy shooting uses fewer possessions than Wall's crappy shooting. In effect, Rubio's inefficiency is less damaging because he uses fewer possessions.

Ok...so it's not a matter of Rubio being better...he just happens to have a lower usage than Wall. I'm not sure it's fair to give Rubio credit for having a smaller usage...their responsibilities differ greatly on their respective teams. Rubio can afford to share ball handling responsibilities because he normally shares the backcourt with either Barea or Ridnour. Wall is the primary ballhandler on this team. Not an excuse...just an explanation.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kornheiser and Wilbon? Really CCJ...might as well provided a link to Bert and Ernie's opinion on the subject.

Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. Rubio is an atrocious shooter...even worse than Wall. He's touted for his passing, but they have similar assist to turnover ratios. I guess Rubio's 7 assists per game are more exciting? Who knows.

Advanced stats say Wall is better. By a fair margin IMO.



I know it's the "in" thing to pile on Wall, but the Wizards wouldn't have been close if it wasn't for him last night. He was hitting shots and getting players in the flow of the offense. If anything, it was Nene/Okafor who were getting outworked on the glass and Webster missing a few open threes that he normally makes that did them in.

TGW, this is not a question of anyone's integrity. Not yours or mine. Am I piling on Wall? Yes, I am. You accused me of entering bias and I responded with others who think Rubio is better just to make the point that this isn't something I came up to mislead or to skew reality. I am not the only person who feels this way.

As for how we interpret advanced stats what I can say is there is no clear-cut, definitive, slam dunk answer as to which player is better. When I say Wall is better that is my subjective opinion. I said Rubio plays "smarter" and "better" and that Wall is "more athletic."

[Nivek]

Yeah, TGW -- that's sorta my read. Rubio came out a little ahead when I ran the numbers earlier in the week, but it's not a huge margin. I'm not sure I totally buy the "different roles" thing when it comes to Wall shooting much more. I could sorta see that in previous years, but this season, Wall has several good offensive weapons -- Nene, Webster and Beal -- who I'm sure would be happy to get a few more shots up. Webster, in particular, is a guy who could use more looks. The Wizards don't need Wall to shoot as much -- and inefficiently -- as he does.