Wizards at Hawks 7:30 02/19/14

[Kanyewest]

no doubt but they also played 20 games before that trade. You cant just discount that and Wall has still been alot better than people give him credit for. I also think teams come in to stop Wall more than they do Lowry because the Raps still play more of a 5 man team game. I think people's expectations of Wall make it seem like Lowry is just playing better but you cant just go by that or the record. People act like a guy on a worst team cant be better. Yes they can

Throughout this season though, Lowry is producing at a better rate. He has a 57.5 TS% compared to Wall who is at 51.7%. I think the bigger thing is that Lowry is better off the ball which helps spread the floor for his teammates since he can knock down the 3. And he's a decent defender much like Wall.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

That being said, I think Wall will pass Lowry if he can continue to improve his 3 point shot. And Lowry may be a bit of a headcase. But just for this season, I would say that Lowry has been playing at a higher level. And that's not to discount John Wall who has moved up overall point guard rankings this season.

[payitforward]

he has not. The Raps fans wanted him gone before the Gay trade

The Raptors are 22-12 since the Rudy Gay trade.

no doubt but they also played 20 games before that trade. You cant just discount that and Wall has still been alot better than people give him credit for. I also think teams come in to stop Wall more than they do Lowry because the Raps still play more of a 5 man team game. I think people's expectations of Wall make it seem like Lowry is just playing better but you cant just go by that or the record. People act like a guy on a worst team cant be better. Yes they can

All the guys on a bad team can be better than all the guys on a good team -- as long as you say they are, because you know who's good and who's not, and what the players actually do has nothing to do with it -- because that's not happening in your mind where the true information about who's good and who's not good is kept.

Lowry is "just playing better" because Lowry is putting up number that are "just... better" than Wall's. That doesn't mean Wall isn't playing well -- he is. But Lowry is having a tremendous season, and he's playing better than John. A good amount better, for that matter.

Just not in your head, only on the basketball court.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

The Raptors are 22-12 since the Rudy Gay trade.

Don't waste your time. Numbers mean nothing to dlts20. He knows who's good because he knows who's good and that's why the guy is good. The other guy can't be as good because the other guy isn't as good because dlts20 knows who's good and the other guy is not.

In other words, he's a "homer." Facts mean nothing.

you guys act like Lowry is Chris Paul or Steph Curry. Everyone is on the kool-aid. This dude is still just 16 & 7 on 43% shooting. I could see if I was arguing against a guy who is getting 20 & 10 but you guys act like he's clearly been better than Wall when it couldnt be further from the truth. Thats not even including their role as a focal point and who teams want to take away more. And its not even like they are way better. They are just a couple of games ahead of us. Again, its all about perception.

But he ha a slightly statistically better game than Wall last game in a win, playing with a team full of Wizard killers, yeah but on this boats he's light years ahead of Wall....

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Don't waste your time. Numbers mean nothing to dlts20. He knows who's good because he knows who's good and that's why the guy is good. The other guy can't be as good because the other guy isn't as good because dlts20 knows who's good and the other guy is not.

In other words, he's a "homer." Facts mean nothing.

you guys act like Lowry is Chris Paul or Steph Curry. Everyone is on the kool-aid. This dude is still just 16 & 7 on 43% shooting. I could see if I was arguing against a guy who is getting 20 & 10 but you guys act like he's clearly been better than Wall when it couldnt be further from the truth. Thats not even including their role as a focal point and who teams want to take away more. And its not even like they are way better. They are just a couple of games ahead of us. Again, its all about perception.

But he ha a slightly statistically better game than Wall last game in a win, playing with a team full of Wizard killers, yeah but on this boards he's light years ahead of Wall....

[dlts20]

The Raptors are 22-12 since the Rudy Gay trade.

no doubt but they also played 20 games before that trade. You cant just discount that and Wall has still been alot better than people give him credit for. I also think teams come in to stop Wall more than they do Lowry because the Raps still play more of a 5 man team game. I think people's expectations of Wall make it seem like Lowry is just playing better but you cant just go by that or the record. People act like a guy on a worst team cant be better. Yes they can

All the guys on a bad team can be better than all the guys on a good team -- as long as you say they are, because you know who's good and who's not, and what the players actually do has nothing to do with it -- because that's not happening in your mind where the true information about who's good and who's not good is kept.

Lowry is "just playing better" because Lowry is putting up number that are "just... better" than Wall's. That doesn't mean Wall isn't playing well -- he is. But Lowry is having a tremendous season, and he's playing better than John. A good amount better, for that matter.

Just not in your head, only on the basketball court.

your reasoning sucks. Its like Barkley saying he was a much better player in Philly on those bad teams then he was on the Suns when he went to the Finals. Those numbers you say that are better then Wall's werent even better until like 2 weeks ago when the Raps are hot right now and we started losing 5 of 6.

Again, why look at those numbers without looking at other numbers? Why look at TS without saying what their roles are? Its like someone trying to tell you some effecient guy is better than Kobe when their roles are night & day

[dlts20]

no doubt but they also played 20 games before that trade. You cant just discount that and Wall has still been alot better than people give him credit for. I also think teams come in to stop Wall more than they do Lowry because the Raps still play more of a 5 man team game. I think people's expectations of Wall make it seem like Lowry is just playing better but you cant just go by that or the record. People act like a guy on a worst team cant be better. Yes they can

Throughout this season though, Lowry is producing at a better rate. He has a 57.5 TS% compared to Wall who is at 51.7%. I think the bigger thing is that Lowry is better off the ball which helps spread the floor for his teammates since he can knock down the 3. And he's a decent defender much like Wall.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

That being said, I think Wall will pass Lowry if he can continue to improve his 3 point shot. And Lowry may be a bit of a headcase. But just for this season, I would say that Lowry has been playing at a higher level. And that's not to discount John Wall who has moved up overall point guard rankings this season.

that 3pt shot doesnt mean anything. Its just a better fit with the system. Their are studs like Rondo who are terrible at 3's. Wall in a different system would live at the rim. Thats Lowry's biggest advantage. I live for the day Witt is axed

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

The Raptors are 22-12 since the Rudy Gay trade.

Don't waste your time. Numbers mean nothing to dlts20. He knows who's good because he knows who's good and that's why the guy is good. The other guy can't be as good because the other guy isn't as good because dlts20 knows who's good and the other guy is not.

In other words, he's a "homer." Facts mean nothing.

you guys act like Lowry is Chris Paul or Steph Curry. Everyone is on the kool-aid. This dude is still just 16 & 7 on 43% shooting. I could see if I was arguing against a guy who is getting 20 & 10 but you guys act like he's clearly been better than Wall when it couldnt be further from the truth. Thats not even including their role as a focal point and who teams want to take away more. And its not even like they are way better. They are just a couple of games ahead of us. Again, its all about perception.

Swing either the Wizards or Raptors' record on over to the Western Conference and they'd be in the exact same spot...10th place. Folks are really overrating the Raptors. Surprised that Kyle Lowry is such a hot topic of discussion around here...

We'll see what the talk is like when they relinquish that 3rd spot. Don't be surprised if Brooklyn comes back to re-claim the division.

All the Raptors have over the Wizards right now is the ability to play with one mind more consistently.

[Illmatic21]

Question to all the Lowry fanboys.. Seeing as Westbrook puts up similar stats to Wall, is Kyle Lowry a better player than Russell Westbrook?

*crickets*

[GhostsOfGil]

Nene also has a TS of .522 on the season (in comparison John is .517) which is pretty bad for a big, even worse when that big is, more often than not, the first option on offense.

I don't hate Nene, but he isn't being used correctly.

I see a correlation between the two.

[Kanyewest]

Question to all the Lowry fanboys.. Seeing as Westbrook puts up similar stats to Wall, is Kyle Lowry a better player than Russell Westbrook?

*crickets*

Well Lowry is having a better season because Westbrook has been injured

EDIT: Actually thinking about it more, OKC MIGHT prefer someone like Lowry instead of Westbrook because they already have Kevin Durant- plus he produces at a much more efficient rate. But I wouldn't draw any big conclusions based on the sample size right now- ie I would still take Westbrook over Lowry if I was a team without LeBron or Kevin Durant.

[Kanyewest]

no doubt but they also played 20 games before that trade. You cant just discount that and Wall has still been alot better than people give him credit for. I also think teams come in to stop Wall more than they do Lowry because the Raps still play more of a 5 man team game. I think people's expectations of Wall make it seem like Lowry is just playing better but you cant just go by that or the record. People act like a guy on a worst team cant be better. Yes they can

Throughout this season though, Lowry is producing at a better rate. He has a 57.5 TS% compared to Wall who is at 51.7%. I think the bigger thing is that Lowry is better off the ball which helps spread the floor for his teammates since he can knock down the 3. And he's a decent defender much like Wall.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2014

That being said, I think Wall will pass Lowry if he can continue to improve his 3 point shot. And Lowry may be a bit of a headcase. But just for this season, I would say that Lowry has been playing at a higher level. And that's not to discount John Wall who has moved up overall point guard rankings this season.

that 3pt shot doesnt mean anything. Its just a better fit with the system. Their are studs like Rondo who are terrible at 3's. Wall in a different system would live at the rim. Thats Lowry's biggest advantage. I live for the day Witt is axed

I agree that the system is important and it looks like Toronto is running a better offensive system than the Wizards.

[Sonny Carson]

There is no doubt that Wall is the best PG in the East. His floor game is the best in the NBA besides CP3. Just wished he had more talent to play with.

Wall played very well today. But Kyle Lowry is the best PG in the east at this moment. Wall has a chance to end the year as the best PG though. Should be interesting between him, Lowry (3rd in the East) and Kyrie (6 game win streak)

[Illmatic21]

Question to all the Lowry fanboys.. Seeing as Westbrook puts up similar stats to Wall, is Kyle Lowry a better player than Russell Westbrook?

*crickets*

Well Lowry is having a better season because Westbrook has been injured

EDIT: Actually thinking about it more, OKC MIGHT prefer someone like Lowry instead of Westbrook because they already have Kevin Durant- plus he produces at a much more efficient rate. But I wouldn't draw any big conclusions based on the sample size right now- ie I would still take Westbrook over Lowry if I was a team without LeBron or Kevin Durant.

OKC would prefer Lowry over Westbrook? You're joking right?

Or are you considering contracts or what?

Btw not saying Wall = Westbrook, but statistically and playing-style wise they are quite similar. Neither is super efficient, but their athleticism and quickness affects the game in multiple dimensions that other players don't. That intangible aspect makes them even better than what their numbers would indicate. OKC is basically unstoppable with Westbrook setting the pace.

[Kanyewest]

Question to all the Lowry fanboys.. Seeing as Westbrook puts up similar stats to Wall, is Kyle Lowry a better player than Russell Westbrook?

*crickets*

Well Lowry is having a better season because Westbrook has been injured

EDIT: Actually thinking about it more, OKC MIGHT prefer someone like Lowry instead of Westbrook because they already have Kevin Durant- plus he produces at a much more efficient rate. But I wouldn't draw any big conclusions based on the sample size right now- ie I would still take Westbrook over Lowry if I was a team without LeBron or Kevin Durant.

OKC would prefer Lowry over Westbrook? You're joking right?

Or are you considering contracts or what?

Simply from an on the court standpoint, Lowry is an efficient 3 point shooter and a better distributor than Westbrook. Moreso than anything, Durant would take more shots with Lowry in place. I was surprised to see that looking up the numbers that Westbrook has a 51.5% TS%. Still, the sample size is small given that Lowry hasn't had a season this good ever and it is a contract season- and for Westbrook it is even smaller since he has been injured. Lowry would have to do it for a longer time. Westbrook is the better talent. There is no doubt about that. He does need to improve his shot selection though.

That being said, I would still take Westbrook given that he has had a better career than Lowry and I wouldn't go off a small sample size, more postseason experience, and more likely to get respect from officials. I am worried about Westbrook's knee which he has had 3 knee surgeries in the past year.

[Illmatic21]

Well Lowry is having a better season because Westbrook has been injured

EDIT: Actually thinking about it more, OKC MIGHT prefer someone like Lowry instead of Westbrook because they already have Kevin Durant- plus he produces at a much more efficient rate. But I wouldn't draw any big conclusions based on the sample size right now- ie I would still take Westbrook over Lowry if I was a team without LeBron or Kevin Durant.

OKC would prefer Lowry over Westbrook? You're joking right?

Or are you considering contracts or what?

Simply from an on the court standpoint, Lowry is an efficient 3 point shooter and a better distributor than Westbrook. Moreso than anything, Durant would take more shots with Lowry in place. I was surprised to see that looking up the numbers that Westbrook has a 51.5% TS%. Still, the sample size is small given that Lowry hasn't had a season this good ever and it is a contract season- and for Westbrook it is even smaller since he has been injured. Lowry would have to do it for a longer time. Westbrook is the better talent. There is no doubt about that. He does need to improve his shot selection though.

That being said, I would still take Westbrook given that he has had a better career than Lowry and I wouldn't go off a small sample size, more postseason experience, and more likely to get respect from officials. I am worried about Westbrook's knee which he has had 3 knee surgeries in the past year.

You kind of made my point, this is a small sample size for Lowry. Wall, like Westbrook, is clearly a better talent than Lowry. And he was flat out the better player last season. But all of a sudden, Lowry has a resurgence in a contract year and we're putting him ahead of all these other players? It's not even a whole season thing for Lowry, he's really only been playing this well for 40 games or so (since the Gay trade). Wall has been playing at an All-Star level for at least a season's worth of games.

Lowry's TS% this year is 3% higher than any other year in his career. This is clearly an anomaly for him.

The Raptors are 3rd in the East this year and playing great on both sides of the ball. I get that all of their players are going to be inflated because of their team success. I get it. But let us acknowledge that this year is an anomaly for Lowry. If Wall was in an offensive system that actually suited his strengths (ie playing with more ballhandlers and slashers, rather than statues who just stand around on offense), his on-court impact would far exceed Lowry's.

Saying Lowry is better than Wall is like saying Trevor Ariza is better than Deng, because they have comparable stats this year and Ariza's team is doing better. In reality, Deng has proven to be a better player than Ariza over his career, but Trevor happens to be in a system that suits his strengths perfectly and he's having a career year.

[dlts20]

the craziest thing about this game was Ariza's full court shot. Not the fact that he made it but the look of every player & coach on the floor/bench and the crowd while the shot was going up. People shoot full court shots alot but most of the time half the players or crowd dont even pay attention. Everyone knows its missing. If they do look then its casual because everyone knows its a miss. What made this strange is it seemed like everyone was intensely looking. I even found myself doing it moreso then on most full court shots.

You just had the feeling that he could possibly make it. I think it was a combination of things. Him being pretty hot lately, a pretty strong player, it was perfectly centered, and he got a perfect slightly running start. He shot that exactly the same way that someone would practice it in the gym or even joke around in the gym. Everyone was glued in on that shot and he made it

[Sluggerface]

Nene also has a TS of .522 on the season (in comparison John is .517) which is pretty bad for a big, even worse when that big is, more often than not, the first option on offense.

I don't hate Nene, but he isn't being used correctly.

I see a correlation between the two.

Lopez - 63%
Bosh - 61%
Dirk - 60%
Dwight - 59%
Blake - 59%
Love - 59%
Horford - 59%
Ibaka - 58%
Unibrow - 58%
Jordan Hill - 57%
David Lee - 57%
Faried - 56%
Valuncianas - 55%
Cousins - 55%
Monroe - 55%

That's 15 starters in the NBA with comparable usage to Nene.

[hands11]

Wall and Beal were outstanding. If they could play like that every night they'd win loads of games. Webster was good. Ariza was good. Gortat was really good although he still isn't defending the PnR like he needs to. At this point, I'm not expecting much there. Booker scored some timely points and got some steals. Uh... Temple did some positive stuff. Nene was pretty meh. Got outplayed by Millsap.

Moral of the story, we can win a somewhat tense game against a slumping team with inferior talent in spite of awful coaching when our players kill it.

I would say Wall was good on the offensive end, but he has been abysmal lately on the defensive end. He continues to allow way too much dribble penetration and seems content to allow his man get by him while trying to slap the ball away from behind. He also tends to freelance way too much on the defensive end. I'm not a Wall hater, but I really haven't liked what I have seen from him defensively the last few games.

one thing I will say in his defense is that he's had to carry the load alot. He has to be our leading scorer while also setting everyone else up because most of them cant score on their own. Then he pushes the ball alot. Basically I think he gets fatigued and I think he's trying to coast on D at times to save his energy.

Get Pierre or the french kid. They never stop running.

[hands11]

Wizards back on track. Many were ready to jump off the ledge last night after the loss to Toronto. Hopefully we realize that this team is resilient and bounces back well. Funny how just 24 hours ago people were screaming fire Wittman. This team is talented and can hang with some of the best in the East.

TOR is playing some of the best ball in the east right now...we saw what happened yesterday...ATL is decimated by injuries and is slumping hard and we almost STILL blew the game....

So...ummmm....yeah....wtf are you talking about?

This is team is just consistently inconsistent.

As configured, this team is in desperate need of an athletic SF and a new HC.

Nothings have really changed from the stuff I have been complaining about and that's whats frustrating. They have one legit ball handler which is Wall and he isn't even the probing type of ball handler. Beal is being used inefficiently because he is asked to handle the ball to much.

They need a ball handling SF and or SG. Having that skill at back up PG, SG or SF would help but at some point, you need to add a starter at one of those positions that can do it. So that mean keeping TA, Web and Otto probably doesn't make sense.

What they probably need to do is a trade with CLE. TA and Webster for Deng and Waiters. But it looks like that trade can't happen because of Dengs trade restriction. Not until after March 7th.

But this problem is one reason TA shouldn't get paid more then 6M. He is a 2nd level SF because he can't handle the ball. He is below average as a ball handler and that is a big strike against him since he is a SF. That makes designing a top tier team with him starting more difficult. He might be worth more to a 2nd tier team who would start him but not a really good team. Not unless you have a Harden type SG which we don't.

Beal, TA, Webster and Otto is a bad combination between SG and SF. Its even worse if you don't have a speedy back up PG which is why I was tracking Pierre so much before the draft and leaned toward him over Wolters as our back up PG pick. It this and Wall need help guarding these speedy PG. You also need a young stretch player which is why Ryan Kelly and Erik Murphy were on my radar.

The design of this team is just flawed. And it why curtain team work them over on a regular basis.

[stevemcqueen1]

Wall and Beal were outstanding. If they could play like that every night they'd win loads of games. Webster was good. Ariza was good. Gortat was really good although he still isn't defending the PnR like he needs to. At this point, I'm not expecting much there. Booker scored some timely points and got some steals. Uh... Temple did some positive stuff. Nene was pretty meh. Got outplayed by Millsap.

Moral of the story, we can win a somewhat tense game against a slumping team with inferior talent in spite of awful coaching when our players kill it.

I would say Wall was good on the offensive end, but he has been abysmal lately on the defensive end. He continues to allow way too much dribble penetration and seems content to allow his man get by him while trying to slap the ball away from behind. He also tends to freelance way too much on the defensive end. I'm not a Wall hater, but I really haven't liked what I have seen from him defensively the last few games.

Wall was more than good on the offensive end. He was masterful. Those skip passes and cross court drive and kicks where he throws his teammates open and in rhythm behind the three point line are unbelievable. Who else does that as regularly as Wall? And he had the PnR game humming. All those assists against no turnovers and then he put on a bit of a show. On the whole, he was a maestro in terms of orchestrating the offense. There were only like three sequences or so the whole game where I was like, come on Wall. The two early, flat footed shots on the possession where they got 5 offensive rebounds comes to mind. Could have milked a ton of time off the clock there. And there was another heat check or two during that third quarter drought where they just got trapped into a rut of going constant fast break and trying to match the pace of a surging ATL team. Aside from that, he was completely dominant on offense and he was very good on the boards--essential for getting our break started.

But I'm not loving his defense either. He was great in the first quarter. The whole team was. Just dominated effort. And give him and the rest of the team credit for recapturing that defensive intensity to close out the game. But from that second quarter when he came back into through the third quarter, the effort was lacking. As it was for the big men too.

I actually don't have a problem with some of the free lancing though. Wall makes plays and his help is actually impactful. You see our bigs go out and aggressively challenge perimeter ball handlers and shooters because the trust the help from our own perimeter guys. Wall is a big part of that and he does seal off driving lanes with his help. Bottom line, our perimeter defense is very good. And again, Wall is a huge part of that.

I'm looking forward to a point where Wall can give us steadier, more complete effort and performance night in and night out. That's what's separating him from being a truly great, championship caliber player. Even the greatest players ever have sequences where they're off, the effort isn't there, and the mistakes they make are killer. But it all comes down to Wall getting to a point where he can elevate the team as much as possible, as often as possible.

But Wall is a damn sight better than a journeyman role player like Kyle Lowry and Wizards fans are blind to not see that. Don't really know a good thing when they see it.