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Political Roundtable Part XVIII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#181 » by gtn130 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:32 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
How does name-calling help though? Nobody's forcing you to read his posts or respond or in fact do anything. Put him on your ignore list if you can't stand it.


Blurring the lines between racists and non-racists is helpful only to racists.


But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#182 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:36 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Blurring the lines between racists and non-racists is helpful only to racists.


But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.

Sounds like someone is desperately afraid of opposing viewpoints and would rather silence them than prove them wrong.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#183 » by Wizardspride » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:38 pm

TGW wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
Don't get me wrong. Nate is who he is - I'm not saying he isn't. Nevertheless, the fact that Nate is actually willing to engage in a fact-based conversation makes him orders of magnitude better than the typical garbage you face on the intertubes. Plus I would be a bad Jew if I were to judge Nate. My job is to speak the truth, that's all.


Nate is a race-baiting pseudo-intellectual. He's no better than your typical stormfront troll.

Stormfront- Also Trump supporters.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#184 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:41 pm

nate33 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:What are you talking about? The FISA warrant was denied? We're talking about the Nunes nutlicker memo, right, where the FISA renewal at issue was the third one?

The FBI created the dossier? WTF man? Who claims this? Have you lost your conservative little mind? Why would they need to make up a dossier on a FISA warrant that had ALREADY BEEN RENEWED ONCE already?

This is what I mean Nate - responding to this garbage is a waste of time. I'll respond when you come up with something that isn't flagrantly wrong.


The FISA warrant was first sought for Page in June of 2016 and was denied.

Then the Steele dossier was disseminated and utilized (along with the media corroboration sourced from the dossier) to successfully obtain the FISA warrant in October of 2016.

It was renewed 3 times after that.


Hm, ok October 2016 was the FIRST one. I don't see any citations of a failed FISA application in June 2016. All I see was that Page was under investigation since 2013. I do see confirmation that FISA applications are rarely rejected, so your argument would hold more weight if there was actual evidence there was a failed one.

The fact that the warrant was renewed three times works against your argument, Nate, since it gets looked at by a new judge each time, and there has to be credible, NEW evidence each time. Or are you saying each judge is complicit in a Democrat conspiracy against Trump?

To be clear, for the implied accusations in this memo to be true, and no conservative is brave enough to say this out loud, there has to be a vast conspiracy in the FBI against the Trump administration, with high level collaboration among judges, investigators, and management. And yet when you ask a Trump apologist "Why are you accusing the FBI of being a left-wing Republican hating machine?" they all answer "oh no I'm only talking about bad behavior of a few individuals." You can't have both - either it's bad behavior of a few individuals, in which case the checks and balances in the system did their job and prevented abuse - or you are accusing the FBI of systemwide political partisanship, which makes ZERO SENSE, given that the FBI HANDED THE ELECTION TO TRUMP by "reopening the investigation" into HRC's emails one week before the election. Without the FBI's assistance, Trump would not even be President now. If the FBI hated Trump so much, why did it do that?

And no one - NO ONE - is claiming the dossier is a fabrication. The ACTUAL accusation is that Steele hated Trump's guts (by the way, not true), which, I've got to say, I have absolutely no problem with. A bunch of biased jerks dug into HRC's emails (and Benghazi!) for YEARS, spent millions of dollars of tax payer money, and found nothing. If not even those partisan hacks can find anything credible then I'm pretty sure 1) the system worked and 2) HRC is completely innocent.

It's only fair, therefore, that Trump quietly and with dignity allow himself to be subject to the same level of scrutiny that the Republicans applied to HRC without whining about it. If he's innocent the investigation will show that, but to be fair, to be subject to the same level of scrutiny that HRC did, the investigative team should be STUFFED with Trump haters.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#185 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:49 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Blurring the lines between racists and non-racists is helpful only to racists.


But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.


The reason I ask is I'm pretty sure shouting "racist racist racist" is how Trump ended up being President. Like Einstein says, the height of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

What we've learned from Trump is that a large majority of white people are low grade racists, the kind of unconscious racism that is difficult to get people to acknowledge in themselves. All that kind of racism rose to the surface when Obama got elected. So now instead of shouting "racist racist" why don't we have an honest discussion about it? Look at what MLK Jr did - he engaged his racist jailers and asked them "why aren't you marching with me?" Which is an excellent question! "Why are you choosing to turn towards hate when you could turn towards love?"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#186 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 4:57 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Blurring the lines between racists and non-racists is helpful only to racists.


But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.


Nate is far and away the best poster in this thread. He brings the most content by far. the most interesting "take" and a different set of eyes with research to back it up. The only reason I joined this thread was because of Nate. Even though I much prefer to take the high road an debate on logic and reason I dont mind putting on the monkey suit and engaging the clowns so Nate can continue his good work work with reason, logic, and research.

Everyone needs to keep in mind the the true purpose of this thread is to learn about each other. learn from one another so as to make the world a better place.

GTN, your posts are of the only variety that does NOT seem to understand that premise. Nate is just presenting information. we all, are just presenting information. Nate may present some information with conclusion or assumptions that I do not agree. And Nate himself may not even agree with the conclusion. It does NOT mean that the information should be excluded from the dialogue.

We are opening our minds here. not closing them. I think. I know I am.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#187 » by cammac » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:07 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:You are either completely in my camp - or you are a racist :)

Why on earth should there be middle ground between racists and non-racists? It's a binary thing.

Why do you refuse to believe that there are racist people on this planet?

There are most certainly racists on the planet and in the US. But no, it isn't a binary thing. Some don't even know they are racist. They don't understand which policies we have that are racist - it is an educational and dialog thing - not a lockout labeling thing.

We HAVE made progress over time. I go back to basically the beginning of this chart - this isn't anecdotal.

How did this happen? Yelling at everyone that they are racist - nope, just opposite.

Image


Completely agree with you I indicated to the forum that my wife had a negative perception of black people. It was the era she was brought up in and the basically the lack of knowing black people. When she did her realization that she was wrong was positively reinforced and her attitude did a 180 degree turn.

Others no matter what the truth is still cling to the evil of bigotry.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#188 » by closg00 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:10 pm



:lol: :lol: The Big Lie only worked on their supporters.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#189 » by Wizardspride » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:10 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.


Nate is far and away the best poster in this thread. He brings the most content by far. the most interesting "take" and a different set of eyes with research to back it up. The only reason I joined this thread was because of Nate. Even though I much prefer to take the high road an debate on logic and reason I dont mind putting on the monkey suit and engaging the clowns so Nate can continue his good work work with reason, logic, and research.

Deleted post.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#190 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:13 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.


Nate is far and away the best poster in this thread. He brings the most content by far. the most interesting "take" and a different set of eyes with research to back it up. The only reason I joined this thread was because of Nate. Even though I much prefer to take the high road an debate on logic and reason I dont mind putting on the monkey suit and engaging the clowns so Nate can continue his good work work with reason, logic, and research.

So you also think black people are inherently more violent and less intelligent than whites?

Where did SD20 say that? Why would you put words into his mouth?

Indeed, I believe his exact quote was:

"Nate may present some information with conclusion or assumptions that I do not agree. It does NOT mean that the information should be excluded from the dialogue."
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#191 » by cammac » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:14 pm

Nates comments are debunked in a post I made earlier.
Plus Nate conveniently forgets the Republican Majority has not let the Democratic rebuttal of the Nune's Memo made public!
This is a long rebuttal about the Nunes Memo and yes it was from a liberal site but factually it is extremely hard to dispute.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/4/1738508/-This-Destroys-the-Nunes-Memo
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#192 » by JWizmentality » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:28 pm

nate33 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:Further, understand that the evidence they had that Page was a spy was pretty damn thin


He publicly acknowledged in 2013 that he works for the Kremlin.

Advising the Kremlin on economic issues isn't the same thing as being a spy with an intent to undermine the U.S. If the Russian government hired a U.S. citizen to advise them on, say, environmental matters, would we label that American a spy?


If said environmentalist went to Russia and bashed US policy on the environment. Yes...I think that would raise a few eyebrows. I can't believe people here are defending the civil rights of Carter freakin Page. Wow.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#193 » by Wizardspride » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
Nate is far and away the best poster in this thread. He brings the most content by far. the most interesting "take" and a different set of eyes with research to back it up. The only reason I joined this thread was because of Nate. Even though I much prefer to take the high road an debate on logic and reason I dont mind putting on the monkey suit and engaging the clowns so Nate can continue his good work work with reason, logic, and research.

So you also think black people are inherently more violent and less intelligent than whites?

Where did SD20 say that? Why would you put words into his mouth?

Indeed, I believe his exact quote was:

"Nate may present some information with conclusion or assumptions that I do not agree. It does NOT mean that the information should be excluded from the dialogue."

gtn's main point was that he considers you a racist.

SD20 then proceeds to say that he considers you the "best" poster and you back up your assertions with facts etc

Thus my question.


Edit: But to be fair, I should have taken into consideration the quote you posted as well.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#194 » by FAH1223 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:36 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#195 » by Kanyewest » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:39 pm

nate33 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:What are you talking about? The FISA warrant was denied? We're talking about the Nunes nutlicker memo, right, where the FISA renewal at issue was the third one?

The FBI created the dossier? WTF man? Who claims this? Have you lost your conservative little mind? Why would they need to make up a dossier on a FISA warrant that had ALREADY BEEN RENEWED ONCE already?

This is what I mean Nate - responding to this garbage is a waste of time. I'll respond when you come up with something that isn't flagrantly wrong.


The FISA warrant was first sought for Page in June of 2016 and was denied.

Then the Steele dossier was disseminated and utilized (along with the media corroboration sourced from the dossier) to successfully obtain the FISA warrant in October of 2016.

It was renewed 3 times after that.


Where are you seeing that it was denied? My google skills right now are lacking in finding the source. I found an article in 2016 that no FISA warrants had been rejected in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/apr/30/fisa-court-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-fbi-nsa-applications

Then, I've been looking into the FISA documents that it is more rigorous and there have been some but a few rejections.

I think you are right to say that we have to look at information carefully from the Steele dossier and look at whatever motives may be there. Then again, I'm not sure if Nunes is entirely reliable since he has been caught leaking information to the Trump campaign which is against the law. Sometimes law enforcement gets information from less than desirable sources but the information could still be accurate.

I think more than anything from these warrants is that Trump has been firing people like Sally Yates and Comey which on the surface seemed tied to Congress. It also seems like Trump is tyring into the notion that he is favoring Russia by not signing sanctions that were passed by a veto proof majority in Congress.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#196 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:43 pm

cammac wrote:Nates comments are debunked in a post I made earlier.
Plus Nate conveniently forgets the Republican Majority has not let the Democratic rebuttal of the Nune's Memo made public!
This is a long rebuttal about the Nunes Memo and yes it was from a liberal site but factually it is extremely hard to dispute.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/4/1738508/-This-Destroys-the-Nunes-Memo


Forgive me cammac. I didn't get a chance to rebut this. You understand that it's just me and SD20 against about 10 of you, so sometimes it's hard to address everything.

1. The Republican Memo Is Solely About Alleged FISA Abuses Against Carter Page
- True. But as I just pointed out in a post this morning, the Title 1 FISA warrant against Page is the key to all of this. It allows virtually unlimited spying on the entire Trump team, going backward and forward in time.

2. Why Do Republicans Suddenly Care About Nobody Carter Page?
- See above

3. Republicans are Attacking our own FBI over Alleged FISA Abuses against a Long Suspected Russian Agent
- The evidence that Page was actually a Russian agent is pretty scant. He certainly is a guy who is very interested in developing financial relationships with Russian energy people, but that's pretty much what you would expect if you're looking for someone to advise you about Russia. You would add people who have had either diplomatic or economic relationships with Russian (preferably both). His statements that he sympathizes with Russia over the U.S, in some of the more recent Ukraine issues is not a crime. Indeed, many conservatives, libertarians and old-style leftists would agree. And I think the fact that he has been under surveillance for almost a decade without being caught in a criminal act is pretty good evidence that he is not a spy.

4. Republicans Approved the FISA Warrant & The Investigation
- Comey is nominally a Republican, but covered for Clinton on the email scandal so you'll forgive me if I'm not sold on his loyalty. Rosenstein is also a nominal Republican, but Trump wasn't really at liberty to put "his guys" there because there was already so much scrutiny and a clamor to impeach him for obstruction of justice. I'll note that it was Rosenstein who allegedly advised him to fire Comey, and then Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special counsel to investigate Trump. The fact that the FISA judges are Republicans is irrelevant. They weren't corrupt. They had insufficient information due to the corruption of others.

5. Trump’s Own Republican Appointees Said that the Republican House Memo Was False and Misleading
- That's not exactly what he said. He didn't say false. He said there were omissions that were misleading. I'm open-minded to hearing what those omissions are.

6. Republicans Have Created a False Narrative that FISA Judges Were Not Told of the Possible Political Bias Behind the Steele Dossier
- It's not a false narrative. Beacon free press started the opposition research, but Steele didn't get involved until the DNC had taken over funding the project. It was clearly a political operation that was clearly funded by the DNC. The FBI new this and didn't tell the FISA court.

7. The FISA Warrant Was Not Granted Until After Carter Page Left the Trump Campaign
- Refer to #1 above. The timing is irrelevant because the Title 1 FISA warrant allows them to look back at old communications.

8. Republican Claims of “Bias” Against Trump Are Circular Reasoning
- This is a pretty weak argument. Dailykos wants you to believe that the bias against Trump was specifically related to the secret stuff they knew about Trump. When I read those texts, I see a much stronger bias than that. Ultimately it's subjective.

9. Republicans Forget Their Own Special Prosecutor Bias
- As liberals are so prone to say, that sounds like "whataboutism" to me.

10. If Republicans Really Want Transparency, Why Not Release Texts Related to the Benghazi Investigation and the Trump Campaigns Emails?
- This is irrelevant to the matter. The article is grasping at straws at this point

11. Remember When Trump Surrogates Talked About the “Bias” in the FBI Against Hillary?
- See #10 above

12. Yes, Someone Was Investigated By the FBI Based on a Salacious, Unverified Partisan Hit-Piece...Hillary
- Where are those 33,000 emails, by the way?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#197 » by dckingsfan » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:49 pm

cammac wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Why on earth should there be middle ground between racists and non-racists? It's a binary thing.

Why do you refuse to believe that there are racist people on this planet?

There are most certainly racists on the planet and in the US. But no, it isn't a binary thing. Some don't even know they are racist. They don't understand which policies we have that are racist - it is an educational and dialog thing - not a lockout labeling thing.

We HAVE made progress over time. I go back to basically the beginning of this chart - this isn't anecdotal.

How did this happen? Yelling at everyone that they are racist - nope, just opposite.

Image


Completely agree with you I indicated to the forum that my wife had a negative perception of black people. It was the era she was brought up in and the basically the lack of knowing black people. When she did her realization that she was wrong was positively reinforced and her attitude did a 180 degree turn.

Others no matter what the truth is still cling to the evil of bigotry.

And look at the chart... the "others" is getting to be a pretty small faction.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#198 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 5:51 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Where are you seeing that it was denied? My google skills right now are lacking in finding the source. I found an article in 2016 that no FISA warrants had been rejected in 2015.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

Lawyers from the National Security Division in the Department of Justice then drew up an application. They took it to the secret US court that deals with intelligence, the Fisa court, named after the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They wanted permission to intercept the electronic records from two Russian banks.

Their first application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#199 » by cammac » Mon Feb 5, 2018 6:00 pm

Family values are important and so is family leave!
If your a Republican find a way to deplete Social Security and ensure you donors reap the benefits of the tax give away!
Rubio has barely started crafting a paid leave bill, much less a broader legislative strategy. But he envisions an idea that has recently gained traction in conservative circles: allowing people to draw Social Security benefits when they want to take time off for a new baby or other family-related matters, and then delay their checks when they hit retirement age. […}

“That’s a new idea for Republicans who still identify it as something that comes out of the left,” Rubio said of paid family leave. “Forcing companies to provide it is perhaps an idea that finds its genesis on the left, but the notion that pregnancy should not be a bankruptcy-eliciting event is one that I think all Americans should be supportive.”

Rubio and Ivanka Trump have recently exchanged emails about paid family leave. And in his Senate office in late January, Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) also privately pitched the concept to the president’s daughter, who gave it a warm reception, according to one person familiar with the meeting. Lee is a close ally of Rubio, and they jointly lobbied for expanding the child tax credit—an Ivanka-backed effort that prompted Rubio to nearly tank the tax bill in the final days of the overhaul. He ultimately voted for it.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/5/1738905/-Ivanka-Trump-and-Marco-Rubio-have-a-really-bad-plan-for-your-future
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#200 » by gtn130 » Mon Feb 5, 2018 6:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
But when did I say Nate wasn't a racist? "How does name calling help" /= "Nate isn't a racist."

Please explain why shouting "racist racist racist" accomplishes anything? I'm curious. What's the debate strategy underlying that technique?


Nate is a non-serious person who is legitimately racist, indulges in every conspiracy theory and spends his days reading right wing blogs about the #DeepState.

He isn't deserving of any credit or benefit of the doubt, and playing nice with him only validates his world views and blurs the lines for casual observers.

Racists aren't welcome in communities - it's why you don't see Klan rallies every Sunday at your local community center. If you want to argue with Nate and convince him he's wrong about stuff, by all means go right ahead - I do it all the time. But playing patty cake with him does nothing but make things worse.

Sounds like someone is desperately afraid of opposing viewpoints and would rather silence them than prove them wrong.


Yeah man I'm desperately afraid of opposing viewpoints yet I waste countless hours arguing with deplorables on the internet. I'm so deeply afraid of conflict! You have me pegged

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