Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[Lucky Once]

The OKC forum mod just proposed:

Gafford
for
Bertans + 2nd worst of 2024 1st (OKC/LAC/HOU/UTA) + 2025 PHI 1st (top 6 prot.) + 2030 PHX 2nd

I'd do that.

Sure! 2 firsts and a second for Gaff? Where do we have to sign?

Keep in mind Bertans has a 16m PO he will assuredly pick up, but yeah I'd accept that too. Gafford would be a really nice fit with that team.

[tleikheen]

:) -- obviously, I am valuing Lively a lot higher than you are!

Not to mention that your last sentence indicates that you are equating the value of Shamet & either Kleber or Williams, which seems pretty far off to me.

As must be obvious, I'd LOVE to acquire Dereck Lively. But, Dallas simply isn't going to trade him -- or, if so, it would only be in a deal which gets them a true star, a difference maker who really ups their chance at a title this year. That's not something we can give them.

You're spot on w/Lively .He's 19 yrs old shooting 73.5 percent while getting almost 8 rpg. So many are important rebounds too.When you get so much positive production from someone so young ,he's a keeper.

[nate33]

The OKC forum mod just proposed:

Gafford
for
Bertans + 2nd worst of 2024 1st (OKC/LAC/HOU/UTA) + 2025 PHI 1st (top 6 prot.) + 2030 PHX 2nd

I'd do that.

Sure! 2 firsts and a second for Gaff? Where do we have to sign?

The picks are really late though. I'd like it more if it was just OKC's best 2014 pick (HOU or UTA)

[pcbothwel]

:) -- obviously, I am valuing Lively a lot higher than you are!

Not to mention that your last sentence indicates that you are equating the value of Shamet & either Kleber or Williams, which seems pretty far off to me.

As must be obvious, I'd LOVE to acquire Dereck Lively. But, Dallas simply isn't going to trade him -- or, if so, it would only be in a deal which gets them a true star, a difference maker who really ups their chance at a title this year. That's not something we can give them.

You're spot on w/Lively .He's 19 yrs old shooting 73.5 percent while getting almost 8 rpg. So many are important rebounds too.When you get so much positive production from someone so young ,he's a keeper.

Oh wow. A low usage rim running center that catches lobs and can’t shoot free throws. God forbid you trade him away.

Lively looks like a solid center prospect, but what has he done that really looks ANY different than Robert Williams, Gafford, Mitchell Robinson, etc.
Guys like Clayton & Mobley at least profile to guard 4 positions.

This valuation is ridiculous.
Gafford is better than Livley right now. Zero question. Same efficiency on higher usage, more blocks & steals, less turnovers.

With gafford locked up for 3 postseason runs, it’s a matter of timeline. If you are tying to win in the next 3 years then livley has little, if any, value over gafford.
If you are trying to win in 2027-2030, then Livley clearly has more value.

[BoogieTime]

I'm not sure any of you guys would have the answer on this but, as a Kings fan I'm interested in the circumstances that led to Kuzma selecting the Wizards over the Kings last summer.

It was reported that we were after him, and supposedly had enough in salary to offer somewhere in the neighborhood of what the Wizards gave him 4/102 mil. After moving Holmes last summer, and renegotiating/extending Sabonis we reportedly had around that much in cap left https://hoopshype.com/lists/free-agency-kings-35-million-cap-space/

I think there were rumors that Kuzma wanted a larger role and to continue to freewheel in Washington as opposed to being "pigeon holed" a role in the Kings offense that wouldnt revolve around him.. still, some fans would find it a bit distasteful giving up assets for a player that you would think have been tempted to join what would have looked to be a playoff team over what would looked to be a rebuilding team.

[DCZards]

:) -- obviously, I am valuing Lively a lot higher than you are!

Not to mention that your last sentence indicates that you are equating the value of Shamet & either Kleber or Williams, which seems pretty far off to me.

As must be obvious, I'd LOVE to acquire Dereck Lively. But, Dallas simply isn't going to trade him -- or, if so, it would only be in a deal which gets them a true star, a difference maker who really ups their chance at a title this year. That's not something we can give them.

You're spot on w/Lively .He's 19 yrs old shooting 73.5 percent while getting almost 8 rpg. So many are important rebounds too.When you get so much positive production from someone so young ,he's a keeper.

Oh wow. A low usage rim running center that catches lobs and can’t shoot free throws. God forbid you trade him away.

Lively looks like a solid center prospect, but what has he done that really looks ANY different than Robert Williams, Gafford, Mitchell Robinson, etc.
Guys like Clayton & Mobley at least profile to guard 4 positions.

This valuation is ridiculous.
Gafford is better than Livley right now. Zero question. Same efficiency on higher usage, more blocks & steals, less turnovers.

With gafford locked up for 3 postseason runs, it’s a matter of timeline. If you are tying to win in the next 3 years then livley has little, if any, value over gafford.
If you are trying to win in 2027-2030, then Livley clearly has more value.

Lively is a good, young player. But his limitations are exactly as you describe. I don’t know why anyone would think that Dallas considers Lively untouchable or that some team would seriously consider trading a star player to acquire him.

[nate33]

I'm not sure any of you guys would have the answer on this but, as a Kings fan I'm interested in the circumstances that led to Kuzma selecting the Wizards over the Kings last summer.

It was reported that we were after him, and supposedly had enough in salary to offer somewhere in the neighborhood of what the Wizards gave him 4/102 mil. After moving Holmes last summer, and renegotiating/extending Sabonis we reportedly had around that much in cap left https://hoopshype.com/lists/free-agency-kings-35-million-cap-space/

I think there were rumors that Kuzma wanted a larger role and to continue to freewheel in Washington as opposed to being "pigeon holed" a role in the Kings offense that wouldnt revolve around him.. still, some fans would find it a bit distasteful giving up assets for a player that you would think have been tempted to join what would have looked to be a playoff team over what would looked to be a rebuilding team.

I don't have a definitive answer for you, but I can say that it was pretty clear that Kuzma liked it here in DC in 2021 and 2022 and the team liked him, so they were starting off the new contract negotiation on very good terms.

Kuzma was a role player in LA when he got a ring so he has been there and done that. In DC, he was 3rd option behind Porzingis and Beal, but a 2nd option for much of the time because Beal was often hurt. Statistically, he was able to take on more and more usage without any deterioration in his efficiency (albeit it was on relatively poor efficiency to begin with). I think Kuzma really wanted to see how far he could take that narrative. Could he be the #1 guy, at least for a while?

I'm sure he recognizes that his declining contract was designed to make him more tradeable down the road. So ultimately, he gets the best of both worlds. He'll have a year or two in DC where he can have the opportunity to be the man, and eventually, he'll get traded to a contender where he will have the opportunity to earn another ring.

[nate33]

The OKC forum mod just proposed:

Gafford
for
Bertans + 2nd worst of 2024 1st (OKC/LAC/HOU/UTA) + 2025 PHI 1st (top 6 prot.) + 2030 PHX 2nd

I'd do that.

Sure! 2 firsts and a second for Gaff? Where do we have to sign?

Keep in mind Bertans has a 16m PO he will assuredly pick up, but yeah I'd accept that too. Gafford would be a really nice fit with that team.

That option is only guaranteed for $5M. He will get cut and the Wizards will eat the $5M.

[payitforward]

:) -- obviously, I am valuing Lively a lot higher than you are!

Not to mention that your last sentence indicates that you are equating the value of Shamet & either Kleber or Williams, which seems pretty far off to me.

As must be obvious, I'd LOVE to acquire Dereck Lively. But, Dallas simply isn't going to trade him -- or, if so, it would only be in a deal which gets them a true star, a difference maker who really ups their chance at a title this year. That's not something we can give them.

You're spot on w/Lively .He's 19 yrs old shooting 73.5 percent while getting almost 8 rpg. So many are important rebounds too.When you get so much positive production from someone so young ,he's a keeper.

Yep -- kid's absolutely terrific!

Interestingly -- but, really, it's not unusual -- to this point the three best rookies are completely out of sequence with the pick order: Trayce Jackson-Davis (57), Brandin Podziemski (19) & Dereck Lively (12).

If we restrict our list to rookies who've played over 800 minutes (admittedly an arbitrary number), the best have been Podziemski (19), Lively (12), Cason Wallace, Jaime Jaquez, & Ausar Thompson (plus Chet Holmgren, of course, out of the '22 draft).

[tleikheen]

Oh wow. A low usage rim running center that catches lobs and can’t shoot free throws. God forbid you trade him away.

Lively looks like a solid center prospect, but what has he done that really looks ANY different than Robert Williams, Gafford, Mitchell Robinson, etc.
Guys like Clayton & Mobley at least profile to guard 4 positions.

This valuation is ridiculous.
Gafford is better than Livley right now. Zero question. Same efficiency on higher usage, more blocks & steals, less turnovers.

With gafford locked up for 3 postseason runs, it’s a matter of timeline. If you are tying to win in the next 3 years then livley has little, if any, value over gafford.
If you are trying to win in 2027-2030, then Livley clearly has more value

Head to head matchup with Chet Holmgren ...... Dereck Lively had 20 pts/16 rebounds/7 blocks > Chet Holmgrens 11 pts /11 rebounds /4 blocks He also won the battle with Wembanyama .
I also see Holmgren dominated Gafford when they played. Also in Lively /Gafford matchup Lively had 17 pys /9 rebs /2 blocks > Gaffords 10 pts /9 rebs /0 blocks.

Lively has more than held his own by outplaying Holmgren and Wemby when they played against each other.

[nate33]

Fake negotiations on the Trade Board are going well.

I think we can trade Kuzma to NY for their DET FRP (top 18, top 13, top 11, top 9 protected in 24, 25, 26 and 27 respectively) and the DAL 2024 FRP.

We can then trade Tyus and Gafford in a 3-way with ORL and OKC and get back 2025 DEN FRP and the worst of the 2024 UTA/HOU pick (late lotto)

Best estimate is that we would be picking in these spots:
2024: #2, #14, #17
2025: #1, #27
2026: #3, #13
2027: #12

Now THAT'S starting to look like a true rebuild. In 2027, we could have Coulibaly, Deni, Bagley, 6 lotto picks and 2 more FRP's on the roster.

[tleikheen]

Best estimate is that we would be picking in these spots:
2024: #2, #14, #17
2025: #1, #27
2026: #3, #13
2027: #12

that would be pretty damn impressive ,but it shows every one traded has become a big piece of teams vying for 1st the western and eastern championships .
I still believe the Wizards last yr JUST needed a topend PG to mesh a superior team together ....but its a new day and new direction now

[9 and 20]

Took a look at the fake trades board and the Kuzma hate is pretty strong out there. Tbh, it's about the same level of hate I had for my guy before he got here, back when he had pink and purple hair. He still sometimes makes plays like a dude with pink and purple hair, but my opinion on him has swung completely and I like the guy a lot now. He's a pretty good player being asked to be more than that and he can't do it, but it looks like he's trying.

I dunno if other GMs looks at him like the fans do or if they see a guy who can be a #3 on a good team. Both for him so he gets a chance at the playoffs and for us because we need draft picks, I hope he's traded. I won't be mad if he's back next year but I don't know how much things will change for him if he's back again.

[nate33]

Took a look at the fake trades board and the Kuzma hate is pretty strong out there. Tbh, it's about the same level of hate I had for my guy before he got here, back when he had pink and purple hair. He still sometimes makes plays like a dude with pink and purple hair, but my opinion on him has swung completely and I like the guy a lot now. He's a pretty good player being asked to be more than that and he can't do it, but it looks like he's trying.

I dunno if other GMs looks at him like the fans do or if they see a guy who can be a #3 on a good team. Both for him so he gets a chance at the playoffs and for us because we need draft picks, I hope he's traded. I won't be mad if he's back next year but I don't know how much things will change for him if he's back again.

I take heart that guys like Bobby Marks and Zach Lowe seem to have a much higher regard for Kuzma than your average RealGM board jockey. Basketball can't be completely boiled down to a spreadsheet. Context matters. Being the focus of the opposition's defense is really hard. Being the guy who has to take a lot of bail out shots is hard.

[gambitx777]

I think Poole might have some low value to several teams. Just my personal option.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[TGW]

I think Poole might have some low value to several teams. Just my personal option.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Sounds like you're still trying to convince yourself. You've posted this several times in the past few weeks, but nothing has changed. Poole is the worst per minute player in the NBA and he has a terrible contract. No one is trading for him without being heavily compensated.

[gambitx777]

I think Poole might have some low value to several teams. Just my personal option.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Sounds like you're still trying to convince yourself. You've posted this several times in the past few weeks, but nothing has changed. Poole is the worst per minute player in the NBA and he has a terrible contract. No one is trading for him without being heavily compensated.

We said this about wall and we got Westbrook back while attaching a pick that's probably never gonna get paid.

We said that about Westbrook and we got a frost for him and a bunch of stuff that we needed up trading for some assets.

We said that about Beal and we got a first tons of swaps and second and CPIII.

I think Poole with have some value to teams remembering how good he is when he's the second or third option. His contract is not that bad. 3 more years 29, 31, 34. And In 3 years that 31 isn't going to look bad at all when people are getting paid 60 + mill starting a contract.


Orlando would be a team.i could see using him with two established 1-2 options.
They have tons of expiring money that isn't playing minutes. They have some of our assets tied up too, a pick swap split with phx and a second rounder later in the decade. Those and a little sweetener like suggs or some seconds.

The hornets I could see him fitting in there with ball. Lowery and like 3 seconds would be fine.

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[TGW]

Go and try any of those ideas on the trade board. See what kind of feedback you get.

[tontoz]

Poole straight up sucks. Not a valid comparison to Westbrook who many on here were calling our MVP. Beal and Wall were All-Stars.

We can't trade Poole any time soon.

[Hibachi_0]

Is Bufkin worth trading for him? has had some great games in the G league and doesn't seem to get playing time anytime soon. Don't know what would ATL ask for him. Maybe we could get him being the third team in a Murray trade.