Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Dark Faze]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)



This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

Your worst idea yet. I wouldn't want Rose anywhere near this team.

I would do it just to dump Nicholson and Mahinmi.

As would I, but the Knicks have very few ways to improve as well so will be desperate for that cap space.

[nate33]

I think one of our best potential trade partners is Orlando.

We are in need of a PF or a defensive C. Orlando has a logjam in the paint with Gordon, Biyombo, Ibaka and Vucevic all competing for minutes. As a result, none of them can even average 30 minutes a game, and they've got Jeff Green playing exclusively at SF (and Gordon also stealing minutes at SF) just to accommodate the others.

Aaron Gordon is the guy I want most. A first and filler for Gordon could make sense.

I'd also like Biyombo, but there's no way to really get him without giving up Mahinmi (which doesn't make any sense from Orlando's perspective).

[youngthegiant]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

[AFM]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

I don't see us giving up Oubre, our only promising young player, for Chandler.

This trade would be RIGHT up EG's alley though. Good young player + pick gone

[TGW]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

HEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO

[nate33]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

That's way too unbalanced. Chandler doesn't get you Oubre (a pretty good young player with tremendous upside) AND a 1st round pick in a strong draft.

I like Chandler, but the fit just isn't right and the cost is too high. Chandler, at age 29 on a $12M a year contract, isn't worth a 1st round pick, particularly not for a team that has Otto Porter to man his position.

[Ruzious]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

I don't see us giving up Oubre, our only promising young player, for Chandler.

This trade would be RIGHT up EG's alley though. Good young player + pick gone

I think even EG wouldn't go that far but agree he is the kind of player EG would target. This seems realistical to me: Chandler for Nicholson and the Wiz 1st. I still wouldn't do it, but I could see it happening - since Chandler can play some stretch 4. Actually, he did in the game earlier this season against Warshington and is averaging a career-high in rebounds. And the Wiz get to dump Nicholson's contract. Reason I wouldn't do it: after next season, we likely have nothing to show for our 2017 1st round pick. Gone. That's a familiar feeling.

[nate33]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

I don't see us giving up Oubre, our only promising young player, for Chandler.

This trade would be RIGHT up EG's alley though. Good young player + pick gone

I think even EG wouldn't go that far but agree he is the kind of player EG would target. This seems realistical to me: Chandler for Nicholson and the Wiz 1st. I still wouldn't do it, but I could see it happening - since Chandler can play some stretch 4. Actually, he did in the game earlier this season against Warshington and is averaging a career-high in rebounds. And the Wiz get to dump Nicholson's contract. Reason I wouldn't do it: after next season, we likely have nothing to show for our 2017 1st round pick. Gone. That's a familiar feeling.

We would have to include more money outgoing. Can't afford Chandler AND Porter on an expensive contract while staying under luxtax.

Either use Mahinmi as the ballast (which makes little sense for Denver), or we have to send both Nicholson and Smith (and losing Smith hurts our thin bench).

[youngthegiant]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

That's way too unbalanced. Chandler doesn't get you Oubre (a pretty good young player with tremendous upside) AND a 1st round pick in a strong draft.

I like Chandler, but the fit just isn't right and the cost is too high. Chandler, at age 29 on a $12M a year contract, isn't worth a 1st round pick, particularly not for a team that has Otto Porter to man his position.

His contract is what makes him valuable. Locked in for this year and next year at 12 million. Portland pays Turner and crabbe a combined 35 million per year and Chandler is more productive than either of them. The reason Washington has to throw in a 1st is because Nicholson at this point is just a waste of cap space. You are essentially giving someone 6 mil to sit on the bench and it's a 4 year deal at that. Denver has no reason to trade chandler for just a mid 1st and Nicholson, Oubre at least gives them a young player that may turn into something.

[pcbothwel]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)



This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

Your worst idea yet. I wouldn't want Rose anywhere near this team.

Are you kidding me? I'd do that trade in a heartbeat just to unload the contracts of Mahinmi and Nicholson. You could cut Rose the day after the trade and I'd still consider it a good deal.

I don't see any way the Knicks do it though. If they consider Rose to be too much of a headache, they'd be better off simply cutting him.

CCJ, this is a great trade for us, but flawed because both teams end up being hurt.
The Knicks hate this because they lose their capspace, tie up too much in overpaid and old Centers, and lose a young asset.

We get out the Mahinmi/Nicholson deals, but it does us no good because we would only be about 7-8M under the cap with Otto's cap hold. That is a little less than the MLE, so now the trade isnt even so great that we can afford to compromise and give a little more to NYK.

Again, good thought, but this is one of those trades where the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

[Ruzious]

I don't see us giving up Oubre, our only promising young player, for Chandler.

This trade would be RIGHT up EG's alley though. Good young player + pick gone

I think even EG wouldn't go that far but agree he is the kind of player EG would target. This seems realistical to me: Chandler for Nicholson and the Wiz 1st. I still wouldn't do it, but I could see it happening - since Chandler can play some stretch 4. Actually, he did in the game earlier this season against Warshington and is averaging a career-high in rebounds. And the Wiz get to dump Nicholson's contract. Reason I wouldn't do it: after next season, we likely have nothing to show for our 2017 1st round pick. Gone. That's a familiar feeling.

We would have to include more money outgoing. Can't afford Chandler AND Porter on an expensive contract while staying under luxtax.

Either use Mahinmi as the ballast (which makes little sense for Denver), or we have to send both Nicholson and Smith (and losing Smith hurts our thin bench).

Yeah, we'd have to include Smith and wait till/if Mahinmi comes back.

[payitforward]

The fact that Porter is about to land a big contract is not a consideration for me. ALL good players are either on a big fat contract already, or will be given a big fat contract in the next year or two. It is what it is.

The bottom line is that Porter is way better than Nurkic, Barton or a late 1st round pick. You don't trade quality for quantity. Porter is really, really good. All the advanced metrics have him as the 6th best SF in the league behind the "Big Five" of Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Butler and Greek Freak. (Those "Big Five" players are top 12 overall players in the league.) Given the fact that Porter is still very young, an extremely hard worker, and hasn't even fully filled out his frame, I'm expecting further improvement going forward. He is easily the 2nd best asset on the team behind Wall. I don't anticipate a trade scenario that would convince me to give him up.

Oubre is a different story. He has tremendous potential, but there is no where near as much certainty that he will be as good as Porter. Also, Oubre projects to be a good player far enough down the road that Gortat will be entering his decline, so the timing isn't great. There is some logic to trading him for win-now prospects that balance out our roster. That said, I'm not exactly looking for such a deal. I'm totally comfortable with having both Oubre and Porter on the roster for a long, long time because I believe that by the time Oubre is ready for 36 minutes a game at SF, Porter will be capable of playing PF for 24 minutes a game, so there will be no overlap.

This is well thought out, nate (i.e. I agree! ). I'm not sure it's a question of "win now" guys, however, at least not if it were oubre for Nurkic plus whatever. I really love Oubre's potential, but I'm also really tempted by Nurkic's potential. If Barton (a pretty good player) and the Memphis R1 pick came along w/ Nurkic, I'd be hard-pressed to turn that deal down.

But, I don't think Denver would give all that for Oubre alone.

[pcbothwel]

What do you guys think? Gives you some additional defense/scoring punch. Wilson Chandler for Andrew Nicholson, Kelly Oubre, 2017 1st (Lottery protected)?

That's way too unbalanced. Chandler doesn't get you Oubre (a pretty good young player with tremendous upside) AND a 1st round pick in a strong draft.

I like Chandler, but the fit just isn't right and the cost is too high. Chandler, at age 29 on a $12M a year contract, isn't worth a 1st round pick, particularly not for a team that has Otto Porter to man his position.

His contract is what makes him valuable. Locked in for this year and next year at 12 million. Portland pays Turner and crabbe a combined 35 million per year and Chandler is more productive than either of them. The reason Washington has to throw in a 1st is because Nicholson at this point is just a waste of cap space. You are essentially giving someone 6 mil to sit on the bench and it's a 4 year deal at that. Denver has no reason to trade chandler for just a mid 1st and Nicholson, Oubre at least gives them a young player that may turn into something.

Nicholson makes less than the MLE, so its annoying, but not debilitating in anyway. Especially for a team that isnt looking to get capspace. I would not take anything lower than a top 10-12 pick for Oubre, so if you take that pick and combine it with our own (#18) you have a pretty strong package. Nicholson, #12, and #20 would certainly get us a better player than Chandler.

[payitforward]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)

This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

I would actually consider this. It would be a way to dump two bad contracts as well as getting better this season. Obviously we would let Rose walk in the summer.

I like the player exchange -- if, as tontoz suggests, we'd let Rose walk. But I have no interest in giving up the R2 picks, and anyway I don't know why New York would want to do this deal.

Why do they want to eat our FA contract mistakes? Why don't they just let Rose walk, keep their two young guys, and sign FAs at the 4 & 5 who are better than Nicholson & a better deal financially than Mahinmi?

[Meliorus]

The fact that Porter is about to land a big contract is not a consideration for me. ALL good players are either on a big fat contract already, or will be given a big fat contract in the next year or two. It is what it is.

The bottom line is that Porter is way better than Nurkic, Barton or a late 1st round pick. You don't trade quality for quantity. Porter is really, really good. All the advanced metrics have him as the 6th best SF in the league behind the "Big Five" of Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Butler and Greek Freak. (Those "Big Five" players are top 12 overall players in the league.) Given the fact that Porter is still very young, an extremely hard worker, and hasn't even fully filled out his frame, I'm expecting further improvement going forward. He is easily the 2nd best asset on the team behind Wall. I don't anticipate a trade scenario that would convince me to give him up.

Oubre is a different story. He has tremendous potential, but there is no where near as much certainty that he will be as good as Porter. Also, Oubre projects to be a good player far enough down the road that Gortat will be entering his decline, so the timing isn't great. There is some logic to trading him for win-now prospects that balance out our roster. That said, I'm not exactly looking for such a deal. I'm totally comfortable with having both Oubre and Porter on the roster for a long, long time because I believe that by the time Oubre is ready for 36 minutes a game at SF, Porter will be capable of playing PF for 24 minutes a game, so there will be no overlap.

This is well thought out, nate (i.e. I agree! ). I'm not sure it's a question of "win now" guys, however, at least not if it were oubre for Nurkic plus whatever. I really love Oubre's potential, but I'm also really tempted by Nurkic's potential. If Barton (a pretty good player) and the Memphis R1 pick came along w/ Nurkic, I'd be hard-pressed to turn that deal down.

But, I don't think Denver would give all that for Oubre alone.

What exactly is Nurkic's potential? The track record for European centers hasn't exactly been great. The perfect big with Wall would be a low-usage, rim-protector, who can catch lobs on offense. DeAndre, Whiteside and Noel fit the profile. Another fit would be a 3 point shooting big such as Muscala or Lopez.

Rather just draft Adebayo or something.

[payitforward]

The fact that Porter is about to land a big contract is not a consideration for me. ALL good players are either on a big fat contract already, or will be given a big fat contract in the next year or two. It is what it is.

The bottom line is that Porter is way better than Nurkic, Barton or a late 1st round pick. You don't trade quality for quantity. Porter is really, really good. All the advanced metrics have him as the 6th best SF in the league behind the "Big Five" of Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Butler and Greek Freak. (Those "Big Five" players are top 12 overall players in the league.) Given the fact that Porter is still very young, an extremely hard worker, and hasn't even fully filled out his frame, I'm expecting further improvement going forward. He is easily the 2nd best asset on the team behind Wall. I don't anticipate a trade scenario that would convince me to give him up.

Oubre is a different story. He has tremendous potential, but there is no where near as much certainty that he will be as good as Porter. Also, Oubre projects to be a good player far enough down the road that Gortat will be entering his decline, so the timing isn't great. There is some logic to trading him for win-now prospects that balance out our roster. That said, I'm not exactly looking for such a deal. I'm totally comfortable with having both Oubre and Porter on the roster for a long, long time because I believe that by the time Oubre is ready for 36 minutes a game at SF, Porter will be capable of playing PF for 24 minutes a game, so there will be no overlap.

This is well thought out, nate (i.e. I agree! ). I'm not sure it's a question of "win now" guys, however, at least not if it were oubre for Nurkic plus whatever. I really love Oubre's potential, but I'm also really tempted by Nurkic's potential. If Barton (a pretty good player) and the Memphis R1 pick came along w/ Nurkic, I'd be hard-pressed to turn that deal down.

But, I don't think Denver would give all that for Oubre alone.

What exactly is Nurkic's potential? The track record for European centers hasn't exactly been great. The perfect big with Wall would be a low-usage, rim-protector, who can catch lobs on offense. DeAndre, Whiteside and Noel fit the profile. Another fit would be a 3 point shooting big such as Muscala or Lopez.

Rather just draft Adebayo or something.

You may be right! But, there have been some very good Euro Centers (Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Sabonis, Divac, Nokic, Pachulia, Pekovic, etc. etc. etc.). & we could still draft Adebayo. Plus have Memphis's R1 pick in the bargain.

But, as I said -- I can't see Denver giving all that for Oubre all alone.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)

This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

I would actually consider this. It would be a way to dump two bad contracts as well as getting better this season. Obviously we would let Rose walk in the summer.

I like the player exchange -- if, as tontoz suggests, we'd let Rose walk. But I have no interest in giving up the R2 picks, and anyway I don't know why New York would want to do this deal.

Why do they want to eat our FA contract mistakes? Why don't they just let Rose walk, keep their two young guys, and sign FAs at the 4 & 5 who are better than Nicholson & a better deal financially than Mahinmi?

They don't do it.

O'Quinn's been playing well at C.

I was really thinking good for the Wizards, pif.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)



This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

This is a very interesting trade idea. Nice outside the box thinking. I like it but I have two reservations:

1 - Would Derrick Rose be happy with playing a back up role? He really wants to get paid this summer, and I wouldn't want him coming in here and bringing bad juju into the locker room because he's unhappy with his role.

2 - Is Hernangomez an adequate long term option at C? I don't really know much about him. The issue with trading Mahinmi is that, even though he's injured now, he's still our trump card for having a long term option at C as Gortat ages. If you trade him, then we'll have to find another long term option at the position because, sooner or later, age is going to have to catch up with March.

So if Hernangomez isn't that kind long term option, then we would need to make a second move to bring one in.

That said, what I really like about your trade is that it'd definitely elevate the bench. Rose would absolutely be gone after the season ended, but it's a nice long term salary dump. If we fired Ernie, it gives his replacement a chance at a fresh start without all of the money Ernie spent this past summer anchoring him.

Rose would still play 30+ minutes backing Wall and Beal. I think his improving the bench play would help the Wizards in the playoffs. But the question about buy in on Rose's part is legit.

We still would have Gortat and Smith. Hernangomez has a PER of 16 and seems like a player to steal to me.

[verbal8]

WARNING:

ACTUAL GOOD TRADE IDEA TO FOLLOW (ORIGINAL THOUGHTS)

Trade for Derrick Rose as follows: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h2s2tcd

(Mahinmi, Nicholson, Burke and two second round picks) for (Rose, Hernangomez, Holiday)



This is the ideal scenario for Derrick Rose. A chance to shine off the bench and in the playoffs subbing for Wall/Beal.
A bonus: Hernangomez improves the bench while greatly reducing cap.

Your worst idea yet. I wouldn't want Rose anywhere near this team.

Are you kidding me? I'd do that trade in a heartbeat just to unload the contracts of Mahinmi and Nicholson. You could cut Rose the day after the trade and I'd still consider it a good deal.

I don't see any way the Knicks do it though. If they consider Rose to be too much of a headache, they'd be better off simply cutting him.

Yeah I don't see an incentive for the Knicks, especially adding assets to Rose. Maybe they think there is potential in Nicholson and somehow are convinced Morris is productive and deal Rose for them.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Your worst idea yet. I wouldn't want Rose anywhere near this team.

Are you kidding me? I'd do that trade in a heartbeat just to unload the contracts of Mahinmi and Nicholson. You could cut Rose the day after the trade and I'd still consider it a good deal.

I don't see any way the Knicks do it though. If they consider Rose to be too much of a headache, they'd be better off simply cutting him.

CCJ, this is a great trade for us, but flawed because both teams end up being hurt.
The Knicks hate this because they lose their capspace, tie up too much in overpaid and old Centers, and lose a young asset.

We get out the Mahinmi/Nicholson deals, but it does us no good because we would only be about 7-8M under the cap with Otto's cap hold. That is a little less than the MLE, so now the trade isnt even so great that we can afford to compromise and give a little more to NYK.

Again, good thought, but this is one of those trades where the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

I'm totally cap-ignorant.

You're right that this is not good for NY. I was just loving myself for thinking Rose as the Wizards backup PG/SG might work.