DCZards wrote:payitforward wrote:Yes, of course I would expect him to get better -- for one thing, he's better this year than last. A good indication that more improvement might be in the offing.
But, what I wrote remains true: he was absolutely horrible last year, & he's still bad this year. Plus, I really don't get why you cite an article like this one from Forbes. Why yes, Barrett is averaging 20% more points per game -- he's playing 20% more minutes per game! That doesn't come go the heading of "improvement."
Per 40 minutes, he is producing .39 more points than last year. &, since his eFG% is unchanged, that's entirely from shooting FTs a bit better. Still, his efficiency has improved -- tho it's still lousy.
Where he's definitely improved: more defensive boards, more offensive boards, fewer turnovers (tho this is partly undone by fewer steals) & improvement in assists.
As you point out, Barrett is only 20 -- the age Troy Brown Jr. was a little less than 11 months ago. Has Barrett played as well to this point as Troy had played up to last February? No. & it isn't close. & Troy was a #15 pick, while RJB went #3.
Conclusion: to this point Barrett has been an enormous disappointment, not a good player at all. Since he was also not a good player in college, that's not much of a surprise.
Yet... you are right that he might improve a whole lot. Some do, some don't.
Last year, when I pointed out that high picks Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, White, & Reddish had all been awful rookies, you made the point that they were young & you expected them to become good players. DeAndre Hunter has done that. None of the others have. Door's not closed, of course, but... in the nature of things it's closing.
The three rookies from last season that I talked about the most and was the highest on (Garland, Barrett, Hunter) are all on the right trajectory, imo. I disagree that any of them have been an “enormous disappointment”… and I don’t think the teams that drafted them feel that way. NBA teams are looking at the long game when they draft a 19 year old, one-and-done college player. I seriously doubt that teams, coaches and GMs are as fixated on their short-term numbers as you are.
I never said much about White, Culver or Reddish, other than to state the fact that they were rookies with one year of college experience and, as in the case of the three players mentioned above, it was FAR too early to determine whether drafting them in the top 10 was a good or bad decision.
(I cite the Forbes article because it's about RJ Barrett, who we happen to be discussing.)
As for Troy Brown, we're both big fans of his. But I'd take Barrett over him in a heartbeat.
Yes, the article is about Barrett, but it doesn't provide any useful info about him. All the same, I agree that he's improved -- on his rookie godawfulness, that is. About Hunter, no question, he's launched. Playing really good ball.
As to Garland, I guess if push came to shove one would be forced to admit that he's a little bit less horrendous this year than he was last year. Doesn't amount to anything, & no he is not on any kind of "trajectory."
It's true that I should have looked back to remind myself that you hadn't really commented much on White, Culver or Reddish. But, if it was too early last year to call any of them a bust, as goes without saying, I don't think there's much doubt about Culver at this point. Nor has White gotten even a little bit better.
As to Barrett vs. Brown -- Troy was infinitely better last year than Barrett is so far this year (in 650 minutes) at the same age. Of course, this season has a long way to go; Barrett may end better than he's begun.
But, you know... I'll be surprised if R.J. Barrett ends up an especially good NBA player; I don't see that much promise in him. I hope he proves me wrong -- as you know I'd like all these kids to succeed. Why would anyone want anything different?
Like me or anyone, Zards, sometimes you're right & sometimes you're wrong. You nailed Mitchell Robinson, that's for sure!
I don't think it's going to work out that way in the case of RJ Barrett, however -- & my conclusion has nothing to do with being "fixated on... short-term numbers." I watched Barrett in college, & I watched him last year. I don't think he's a good basketball player.
I don't like his shot, for example, & it also doesn't go in very often! The "numbers" are the result of the problem not the cause of the problem. They're a way to get a handle on that result.
