Deni Avdija

[dckingsfan]

Agreed.

Also, it can be argued that, early in the game, the team needs a more deliberate approach. When defenses are fresh, teams play in the half-court more often and Kispert's floor spacing is a real advantage. Deni's open court ability and playmaking ability work better as defenses get a bit more tired and find themselves scrambling more.

Disagree; he should be the starting point guard

He can get there, but if he can come off the bench and hone his offensive game in the process, why mess with it? I'm fine with gradual steps in developing a young player. If he continues to excel doing what he's done the past few games, then maybe there's a serious argument to him starting. I just don't think it's worth worrying about at this given time.

Also, with Monte finally not playing like a bum like he did earlier in the season, he's not going to supplant him at PG either. If he supplants someone, it'll be Kispert if Morris continues to play better. Once Gafford is back, it further moots the point.

I rather them start him once they have no choice, but he's going to have to be consistent with his offense to dictate that decision. I'm excited as the next to see him do that, and Deni from the last 4 game has got a lot of folks excited because he's actually a guy that could move the needle for us given our situation, but I'm cool with not forcing the issue either.

All that said, it's a lot brighter in this thread than two weeks ago, so that's great news.

I would like to see him as a point guard. Just not this year - let's give him time coming off the bench and getting his skills in order.

[doclinkin]

While it's undeniable that Avdija has had a recent positive stretch, I'm still not sold on him. For the year he's shooting 28.6% from 3. For his career he's shooting 30.9% from 3. In January he shot 21.2% from 3. We can talk about everything he does well, but the simple reality is that this is not going to get it done. It's fascinating that people are already penciling him into our plans for the future. To shoot this bad from 3, when teams are basically daring you to shoot 3's is astounding.

The hopeful thing is that he has adjusted his game mid-season and shown improvement. That's key in a young player. If his improvement remains steady, and/or if he can sustain this positive play for a prolonged time, then yes he will be a solid player. He seems to have the right attitude in this respect since the things he was crushed for earlier in the season are the things he has shown as a positive in this most recent stretch.

That said I flinch when I see the Wiz marketing crew/broadcasters etc latch onto it and pump up Deni as 'Turbo' etc. We have had a decent stretch against some bad teams. Teams resting starters, injured, tanking etc, same as the win streak at the beginning of the year. If the players want to joke about Turbo Deni, cool, but for the PR flacks to run with it seems premature. Good on Deni, keep working, nice game. Move on. Next.

It is a good thing though that he really seems to be enjoying it out there. Reward for hard work being wins and personal success. And respect of your peers.

I don't mind that Deni will throw up an X for a defensive stop, or rev the motor for a quick bucket. Quietly cocky. If that's what it takes to motivate him. I want to see him do it in a winning season. Deep post season run. Earn it.

[DCZards]

While it's undeniable that Avdija has had a recent positive stretch, I'm still not sold on him. For the year he's shooting 28.6% from 3. For his career he's shooting 30.9% from 3. In January he shot 21.2% from 3. We can talk about everything he does well, but the simple reality is that this is not going to get it done. It's fascinating that people are already penciling him into our plans for the future. To shoot this bad from 3, when teams are basically daring you to shoot 3's is astounding.

The hopeful thing is that he has adjusted his game mid-season and shown improvement. That's key in a young player. If his improvement remains steady, and/or if he can sustain this positive play for a prolonged time, then yes he will be a solid player. He seems to have the right attitude in this respect since the things he was crushed for earlier in the season are the things he has shown as a positive in this most recent stretch.

That said I flinch when I see the Wiz marketing crew/broadcasters etc latch onto it and pump up Deni as 'Turbo' etc. We have had a decent stretch against some bad teams. Teams resting starters, injured, tanking etc, same as the win streak at the beginning of the year. If the players want to joke about Turbo Deni, cool, but for the PR flacks to run with it seems premature. Good on Deni, keep working, nice game. Move on. Next.

It is a good thing though that he really seems to be enjoying it out there. Reward for hard work being wins and personal success. And respect of your peers.

I don't mind that Deni will throw up an X for a defensive stop, or rev the motor for a quick bucket. Quietly cocky. If that's what it takes to motivate him. I want to see him do it in a winning season. Deep post season run. Earn it.

Deni’s 3pt shooting does need to improve…but the strides he’s made in improving his ability to score at the rim lessens the urgency for him to become a great 3pt shooter…decent (37% or so) will do, imo.

When you combine his excellent defense—and solid passing, ballhandling and rebounding—with his rapidly improving ability to create for himself, Deni’s upside and future looks bright.

So, yes, I’m penciling the 22 year old into the Zards long-term plans.

I don’t have a problem with the broadcasting crew running with the “Turbo” stuff. Part of the crew’s job is to entertain…to mix the fun with the seriousness.

[tleikheen]

And coming around the final turn on the outside is AVIDJA ....he's looking spry and strong and here he comes .......

[J-Ves]

While it's undeniable that Avdija has had a recent positive stretch, I'm still not sold on him. For the year he's shooting 28.6% from 3. For his career he's shooting 30.9% from 3. In January he shot 21.2% from 3. We can talk about everything he does well, but the simple reality is that this is not going to get it done. It's fascinating that people are already penciling him into our plans for the future. To shoot this bad from 3, when teams are basically daring you to shoot 3's is astounding.

I’m more concerned he continues to show aggressiveness and confidence with drives like he did vs the spurs.

Regarding 3pt% I’m not too concerned long term. Yes he does need to improve but he’s still young and that part of a persons game usually creeps up over time. Plus he only needs to get to the 33-35% range to keep defenses honest

[WallToWall]

Consistency is key. He is an improving player, and that by itself is good. Could we say the same for our other recent picks? Now though, I want to see consistency, where we can count on him to make solid defensive stops, rely on him for 8rbs, provide 15pts on efficient shooting, and provide some intangibles. If he does this, I see no reason why he shouldn’t be a starter.

[prime1time]

When Avdija starts, what will his role be? How many shots will there be when he playing with Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma? Are people who are both pushing for Avdija to start and celebrating his aggressive driving advocating running the offense through Avdija instead of through Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma?

[Dolevi]

When Avdija starts, what will his role be? How many shots will there be when he playing with Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma? Are people who are both pushing for Avdija to start and celebrating his aggressive driving advocating running the offense through Avdija instead of through Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma?

This is when you're talking about Set offense.
and also there, Deni can find ball time, as just last game Deni touched the ball a lot also on P&R actions as a BH (Gibson and KP screeners) even when Kuz/Beal were on the floor too. You need to remember - running the offense doesn't mean the offense must end with your shot (by the guy who runs it), the ball moves and that is why sometimes Beal plays off-ball screens and KP a lot as a screener (and pops out). KP isn't a playmaker or a guy that runs your offense bro, KP is the target man or the one who creates points.
Deni doesn't have to do that, what he does is what he does the best - take the rebound and run coast to coast. It doesn't matter who else you have on the floor, Deni just by that by pushing the ball can make his impact alone. That thing alone suppose to give him enough shots per night.
Deni has shown he can do that already in pre-season vs Brooklyn Nets, 20-21:

Watch on YouTube

His floater to end the halftime, right after he took a board and run with it coast to coast (it's not in the video, but I remember the play).

[doclinkin]

I don't really care if he starts. He will get big minutes because his role is to stifle the opponent's best player. He will finish critical games.

Manu is a Hall of Famer as a Sixth man. Because that was the way he could get the most minutes and touch the ball. It is a real role on successful teams, to have a captain of the 2nd squad.

And Every winning team needs a glue guy. It is an interesting choice if Deni ends up combining those two roles. But he doesn't demand touches. He is learning when to attack, he doesn't hold the ball, if any of Beal, Kuz, KP are on the bench or out for the game, he is able to pick up the slack. So far, in the box score, whatever he is doing is not hurting the team.

[prime1time]

I don't really care if he starts. He will get big minutes because his role is to stifle the opponent's best player. He will finish critical games.

Manu is a Hall of Famer as a Sixth man. Because that was the way he could get the most minutes and touch the ball. It is a real role on successful teams, to have a captain of the 2nd squad.

And Every winning team needs a glue guy. It is an interesting choice if Deni ends up combining those two roles. But he doesn't demand touches. He is learning when to attack, he doesn't hold the ball, if any of Beal, Kuz, KP are on the bench or out for the game, he is able to pick up the slack. So far, in the box score, whatever he is doing is not hurting the team.

Let's be realistic. In 2023, no team is going to say, "Hey, let's let our best offensive player go against the opposing team's best defensive player." In modern basketball teams hunt out mismatches. They try to get switches and then they attack the opposing team's weakest defensive player. So when you say, "Deni will get big minutes to stifle the opponent's best player" what does this mean?
Are you advocating that with regards to Avdija that we don't switch? Also, in modern NBA no one is stifling the best offensive players. MAybe they have a slow night here and there, but you're not going to put Avdija on an elite wing/guard and expect major success.


You say that Avdija will finish games. Why would he? He's a terrible shooter. A smart opposing team will leave him and use his defender as a help man. This is the paradox of Deni Avdija. The things people are praising him for, actually have a limited impact in the biggest moments. And what actually matters posters ignore.

He's shooting 28.6% from 3. Why would he be in the game from an offensive perspective? He will not have the ball in his hands. And he can't space the floor. Now if this changes, that's a different conversation. The comparison to Manu Ginobili is actually kind of laughable. Without significant improvement from Avdija, and even with significant improvement, I expect that we will draft another forward in the first round and continue the conga line of forwards. Otto => Oubre => Brown Jr. => Rui => Avdija => Kispert.

[DCZards]

Let's be realistic. In 2023, no team is going to say, "Hey, let's let our best offensive player go against the opposing team's best defensive player." In modern basketball teams hunt out mismatches. They try to get switches and then they attack the opposing team's weakest defensive player. So when you say, "Deni will get big minutes to stifle the opponent's best player" what does this mean?
Are you advocating that with regards to Avdija that we don't switch? Also, in modern NBA no one is stifling the best offensive players. MAybe they have a slow night here and there, but you're not going to put Avdija on an elite wing/guard and expect major success.

You say that Avdija will finish games. Why would he? He's a terrible shooter. A smart opposing team will leave him and use his defender as a help man. This is the paradox of Deni Avdija. The things people are praising him for, actually have a limited impact in the biggest moments. And what actually matters posters ignore.

He's shooting 28.6% from 3. Why would he be in the game from an offensive perspective? He will not have the ball in his hands. And he can't space the floor. Now if this changes, that's a different conversation. The comparison to Manu Ginobili is actually kind of laughable. Without significant improvement from Avdija, and even with significant improvement, I expect that we will draft another forward in the first round and continue the conga line of forwards. Otto => Oubre => Brown Jr. => Rui => Avdija => Kispert.

You discount Deni’s D, where he ranks among the best in the league, and totally ignore the other valuable aspects of his game—rebounding, passing, ballhandling, taking defenders off the dribble.

There’s more to playing winning basketball than being a good 3pt shooter.

[doclinkin]

When Avdija starts, what will his role be? How many shots will there be when he playing with Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma? Are people who are both pushing for Avdija to start and celebrating his aggressive driving advocating running the offense through Avdija instead of through Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma?

His role is to play winning ball. Your premise is flawed.

If you check the line-ups, the combo of Deni + starters Morris-Beal-Kuzma-Porzingis has a positive +/-. In fact in any combination, Deni +3 of the above, Deni+2. All are in the positive. Which has been true for his entire career. He maintains a positive team +/- effect for his career. Even without that outside shot. Yes if his 3fg% improves then his effect is even better. But whatever he is doing next to the starters, it is working.

[pancakes3]

Deni is valuable as a defender both because he's a good on-ball defender for his position, but also he has size+quickness to switch big or small. This isn't a Gobert situation.

[deneem4]

If deni is this good as every body pretty much saying, put him on the floor as a starter

[DCZards]

If deni is this good as every body pretty much saying, put him on the floor as a starter

Lately, Deni has been playing starter minutes and on the court at the end of games. So whether or not he starts is insignificant, imo.

[pancakes3]

I think Deni's issue is whether he's good enough offensively. A lot of talking heads have said that to make it in the NBA, you need a "plus skill" - something that you do that is above league average to justify court time. For someone like Reddick, Korver, it's obviously shooting. For other guys, it's rebounding. These talking heads have also acknowledged that there are guys who don't have a defined skill but their intangibles somehow make it work, notably Draymond.

I don't know if Deni is good enough defender to be a plus defender, but he is good. He's also such a poor shooter that it is a relative liability so he needs to be that much better of a defender to justify court time. He's shown ability to be a decent rebounder, and have above-average handles for his position, but the problem is that these aren't really useful skills for his position.

[DCZards]

He's shown ability to be a decent rebounder, and have above-average handles for his position, but the problem is that these aren't really useful skills for his position.

Being a good rebounder and having above average handles are useful skills for ANY position.

[payitforward]

All these "if" questions seem irrelevant to me. I think Deni Avdija has made it in the NBA.

I don't mean that he's peaked, of course, but he's already an above average player at his position. & that's just on the boxscore numbers, without considering any plus effect he has on defense that doesn't get captured as a number for him.

Not to mention that Deni only turned 22 about 3.5 weeks ago -- a whole bunch of NBA rookies are older than Deni Avdija. He's only 3 months older than Jalen Williams. He's only 4 months older than Tari Eason.

How good will Deni be in his prime? At his peak?
Well, since my crystal ball cracked it's become difficult to know something like that.

But, given that Deni is better this year than he was last year. & that last year he was better than he was his rookie year, I'd say that bodes well for continued improvement. & Deni does seem to be asserting himself more confidently & effectively with the ball in his hands.

All the same, he'll never be Tyrese Halliburton, which means he'll never be the best player on the board at 9 in the 2020 draft.

OTOH, other than Halliburton, the only players taken from 10-30 who are worth mentioning in comparison with Deni are Josh Green, Tyrese Maxey, Immanuel Quickley & Desmond Bane, none of whom anyone would have taken at #9. Certainly no one here called for any of them to be our pick.

Green & Bane have been the 2 best of those 4 -- & both have been better than Deni.
Hence, it's worth mentioning that Ruzious was extremely high on both those 2 guys!

Bane is 2.5 years older than Deni; he was drafted as a graduating senior. Presumably, he's a lot closer to his prime than Avdija. Green, OTOH, is only 6 months older than Avdija. He looks like he's going to be a stud.

[payitforward]

As far as that goes, how many of the guys taken 1-8 have been as good as Deni?

Lamelo Ball has been terrific. You can make up your own mind about Anthony Edwards; he's not my cup of tea. Both Okungwu & Okoro look like nice young players. You could rate them just slightly above Deni so far.

None of Wiseman, Williams, Toppin or Hayes have shown any reason for excitement.
It'd be fair to argue that Deni Avdija is among the top half dozen players out of the first round in 2020.

In all, Haliburton, Ball, Okungwu, Okoro, Deni, Green, Bane, Quickley & maybe Maxey look like the best out of R1.

OTOH, Kenyon Martin Jr., taken #52, has been way better than most players picked in the lottery that year. & of the guys taken post-lottery, only Josh Green & Bane deserve comparison with Martin.

[prime1time]

Let's be realistic. In 2023, no team is going to say, "Hey, let's let our best offensive player go against the opposing team's best defensive player." In modern basketball teams hunt out mismatches. They try to get switches and then they attack the opposing team's weakest defensive player. So when you say, "Deni will get big minutes to stifle the opponent's best player" what does this mean?
Are you advocating that with regards to Avdija that we don't switch? Also, in modern NBA no one is stifling the best offensive players. MAybe they have a slow night here and there, but you're not going to put Avdija on an elite wing/guard and expect major success.

You say that Avdija will finish games. Why would he? He's a terrible shooter. A smart opposing team will leave him and use his defender as a help man. This is the paradox of Deni Avdija. The things people are praising him for, actually have a limited impact in the biggest moments. And what actually matters posters ignore.

He's shooting 28.6% from 3. Why would he be in the game from an offensive perspective? He will not have the ball in his hands. And he can't space the floor. Now if this changes, that's a different conversation. The comparison to Manu Ginobili is actually kind of laughable. Without significant improvement from Avdija, and even with significant improvement, I expect that we will draft another forward in the first round and continue the conga line of forwards. Otto => Oubre => Brown Jr. => Rui => Avdija => Kispert.

You discount Deni’s D, where he ranks among the best in the league, and totally ignore the other valuable aspects of his game—rebounding, passing, ballhandling, taking defenders off the dribble.

There’s more to playing winning basketball than being a good 3pt shooter.

Yes, there’s more to playing winning basketball than being a good 3-point shooter, but can you play winning basketball from the wing and and be a bad 3-point shooter?