Political Roundtable Part XXXIII

[Benjammin]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Zonkerbl]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

yeah yeah

go crawl back in your hole now

[dobrojim]

Wow.

I had been feeling a little guilty the last day or 2 for calling out for Da1 to make his arguments and bring his receipts
after he told the story(ies) of falling victim to repeated crime, I could feel sympathy and compassion
for him but didn't take the time right away to respond. I got busy with some other things and didn't have
the time to return to the thread since you posted that narrative a few days ago. This was right after I almost
posted something in my impatience for his not responding quickly enough. Somehow I managed to delete that
before making an @ss of myself (again)..

So, Da1, I am really sorry to hear of your experiences as a crime victim. It's not surprising that
those experiences would make you angry. They would make me angry too. But here's the thing,
your apparent lock em up and throw away the key simple response is like many simple responses
to complicated problems, it doesn't achieve the results intended and can often make things worse.
But I appreciate your (Da1) willingness to engage here in this thread.

As a general thing, the political arguments of those on the right (since around the 80s) have drifted
further away from data driven solutions towards marketing based solutions that aren't really very
well thought ought or effective in solving the problem, but they sell to voters by appealing to unhealthy
things like toxic masculinity and militarism. Subtle, or not so subtle, aspects of racism have helped close
the deal or narrowly provided electoral margins. That's what makes an essay or book like The Cruelty is the Point
become simultaneously popular and despised.

So in conclusion and to the many folks here who I consider friends, even though we've never met, thank you
for continuing to educate me. I was particularly struck by 'cakes 'group check' post and by Doc's
post that immediately followed 'cakes post in pg 89. To others I didn't mention, it doesn't mean
I didn't also appreciate what you wrote. Thank you.

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

(I still have a couple posts I need to go back and read)

[Benjammin]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

yeah yeah

go crawl back in your hole now

Thanks for proving my point.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[doclinkin]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

yeah yeah

go crawl back in your hole now

Thing is I agree with jammin.

Like on the one hand I feel all of the acidic vitriol and actual visceral hatred for Trump and those in power with him. Like rage. I hate hating but it’s not a choice. He’s eminently punchable and somehow immune to karma. A political herpes sore on the dangling Florida of America.

I don’t feel the same disgust for those who have been duped into supporting him. There’s a trillion dollar industry devoted to pumping misinformation into people’s heads. The strategists protecting corporate power invest in decades long programs to hypnotize Joe Paycheck into giving away his power. Fearing and hating the wrong damn thing. Advertising works. Evil is damned good at what it does.

And while being a **** is fun sometimes, at best it adds content and conflict to a thread that absolutely should be about a fierce and spirited debate, I’d also agree it does nothing to fix a damn thing. It just makes the guy being a **** feel righteous and superior but irritates everyone else. Even those who agree with you. Or learn from your takes.

Thats the thing that has fffed up democracy here and worldwide. That directly points at Trump. But Bush before him. And Fox News all the way back to Morton Downey jr. Rush Limbaugh. Newt Gingrich. All the pustulant canker sores on the body politic.

Every damn body is so pi55ed off and righteous that there’s no debate or possible. We just want to crush each other.

That part isn’t all that entertaining. Educating. Cathartic. It just ends up with a dude on a message board being an ass. Looking for a proxy for the people who actively deserve the hate.

I dunno. You know me. I like a good dust up and insult war. I also like it when those who are wrong show up to be wrong and stick around long enough for me to understand why they think the way they do. Figure out where they went wrong. Because as a union guy we don’t always agree with the guy we work with, but we still end up working together to get the job done. And sometimes a guy will get where you’re coming from or change his mind. If you’re not just being a **** about it.

[Fairview4Life]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

This takes away all the agency from the people who voted for Trump. The animating force for a large swath of Trump's electorate is people who want to see those they deem unworthy or lesser, punished. Racial resentment plays a huge role in that as well. If we're talking about unmitigated contempt from one side to another, I have...a different opinion on which side you should be yelling at.

[Benjammin]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

This takes away all the agency from the people who voted for Trump. The animating force for a large swath of Trump's electorate is people who want to see those they deem unworthy or lesser, punished. Racial resentment plays a huge role in that as well. If we're talking about unmitigated contempt from one side to another, I have...a different opinion on which side you should be yelling at.

I think you're correct. But would the Democrats rather feel superior and "self-justified" or would they have rather won? Because the last two times they were that way they lost to a disgusting con artist.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Fairview4Life]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

This takes away all the agency from the people who voted for Trump. The animating force for a large swath of Trump's electorate is people who want to see those they deem unworthy or lesser, punished. Racial resentment plays a huge role in that as well. If we're talking about unmitigated contempt from one side to another, I have...a different opinion on which side you should be yelling at.

I think you're correct. But would the Democrats rather feel superior and "self-justified" or would they have rather won? Because the last two times they were that way they lost to a disgusting con artist.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Democrats didn't lose because Zonkerbl started yelling at morons after the election. Actual Democrats spent months, if not years, bending over backwards to talk to and try and court Republican voters. There were a whole lot of reasons they lost the presidency by a very small margin this year but still did better than most incumbent parties around the world.

[Doug_Blew]

C Your side also claims her body is her choice, the government should stay out of things between a doctor and patient, yet they should somehow pay for it. How does that make sense?

What?!?!

In what world would someone want the government to have control over their body whether they're male or female?

[Doug_Blew]

Imagine telling a homeless guy to be grateful because in your country there are no toilets.

As far as I can tell, this guy went to a private school paid by his parents...but the system isn't fair for him.

[AFM]

They say there's a Norm tweet for everything.

[pancakes3]

What?!?!

In what world would someone want the government to have control over their body whether they're male or female?

i like the right wing talking point that if anything involves taxpayer money, it then requires unanimous consent by the tax base before anything is done, down to specific, individual taxpayers.

[dobrojim]

I just watched this video and if we hadn't already experienced the 4 years of DJT45, we might be tempted
to say this can't be true. GOPers would love to and probably will call it 'fake news'.

In the words of the Q folks, do your research.

My bet is that it is very true. My second bet is that a huge number of GOPers won't care.
Their cowardice in speaking up and unwillingness to be decent honest public servants
themselves has become de rigueur in the MAGA GOP. Members are either afraid of losing their own seats or
getting in on the gravy train that characterized DJT45 and with the DOJ being castrated will be more
likely in the near future. But before anybody points to a dem who got caught, don't even start with
those false equivalences. At this point in time, and arguably going back to Nixon, the GOP has reigned
supreme in this area (public corruption and graft).

This is definitely in the you can't make this ish up category.

PS - it gets harder with every new nominee to decide which one is the worst.

Watch on YouTube

[dobrojim]

And yet it's attitudes like Zonk's with his condescending tone and unmitigated contempt for his lessers that helped elect Trump. I just wanted Trump to lose and have a divided government but as you sow, so shall you reap.

What's even worse is his information is generally pertinent and accurate.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

This takes away all the agency from the people who voted for Trump. The animating force for a large swath of Trump's electorate is people who want to see those they deem unworthy or lesser, punished. Racial resentment plays a huge role in that as well. If we're talking about unmitigated contempt from one side to another, I have...a different opinion on which side you should be yelling at.

So much anger. It's tragic and our global adversaries (Putin) are trying their best to quietly
make it worse. Helping Golfy is a no brainer for them.

Harris and Walz said repeatedly that our mutual desires far outweigh our disagreements. But our
disagreements are easy to exploit for those who want to weaken us.

[Benjammin]

This takes away all the agency from the people who voted for Trump. The animating force for a large swath of Trump's electorate is people who want to see those they deem unworthy or lesser, punished. Racial resentment plays a huge role in that as well. If we're talking about unmitigated contempt from one side to another, I have...a different opinion on which side you should be yelling at.

I think you're correct. But would the Democrats rather feel superior and "self-justified" or would they have rather won? Because the last two times they were that way they lost to a disgusting con artist.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Democrats didn't lose because Zonkerbl started yelling at morons after the election. Actual Democrats spent months, if not years, bending over backwards to talk to and try and court Republican voters. There were a whole lot of reasons they lost the presidency by a very small margin this year but still did better than most incumbent parties around the world.

That isn't shown in surveys with voters that indicate the Democratic party has moved farther to the left than the Republicans have to the right. It ignores how the Democratic party centers on social issues that are outside of the views of average, not elite Americans. Democrats haven't even delivered on a Bernie style economic policy that emphasizes class rather than other demographic characteristics.

I have voted against Trump three times but the two times he won didn't surprise me. At all. It was only his monumentally criminal handling of COVID along with such a corrupt administration that he lost in 2020.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Fairview4Life]

I think you're correct. But would the Democrats rather feel superior and "self-justified" or would they have rather won? Because the last two times they were that way they lost to a disgusting con artist.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Democrats didn't lose because Zonkerbl started yelling at morons after the election. Actual Democrats spent months, if not years, bending over backwards to talk to and try and court Republican voters. There were a whole lot of reasons they lost the presidency by a very small margin this year but still did better than most incumbent parties around the world.

That isn't shown in surveys with voters that indicate the Democratic party has moved farther to the left than the Republicans have to the right. It ignores how the Democratic party centers on social issues that are outside of the views of average, not elite Americans. Democrats haven't even delivered on a Bernie style economic policy that emphasizes class rather than other demographic characteristics.

I have voted against Trump three times but the two times he won didn't surprise me. At all. It was only his monumentally criminal handling of COVID along with such a corrupt administration that he lost in 2020.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

It is absolutely shown in surveys of Trump voters though. Especially in 2016.

[dobrojim]

Trump voters were convinced it was true. But I'm sure Faux News had nothing to do with that.

[daoneandonly]

Imagine telling a homeless guy to be grateful because in your country there are no toilets.

As far as I can tell, this guy went to a private school paid by his parents...but the system isn't fair for him.

The hypocritical world where the government funds planned parenthood and those calling for universal Healthcare while advocating pro choice ideologies. Want the government out, but conveniently want them to fund stuff for said body

[Benjammin]

Trump voters were convinced it was true. But I'm sure Faux News had nothing to do with that.

If by Trump voters you mean people that voted Republican for the first time, then sure let's credit/blame Fox News for that. Why is it so difficult for Democrats to be reflective and self-critical? If you want to keep losing to people like Trump then don't change a thing and keep your ideological purity.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[daoneandonly]

Imagine telling a homeless guy to be grateful because in your country there are no toilets.

As far as I can tell, this guy went to a private school paid by his parents...but the system isn't fair for him.

You know what happens when u assume?

Never once went to private school as a child. As mentioned numerous times, a child of hard working immigrants who weren't handed anything in life.