Political Roundtable Part XIX

[stilldropin20]

I wonder if trolling works better now and if we are more reactive than in the past? Or if it has always been that way?

It does seem like we are more polarized now - but that may be outcome bias.

It "seems like" there are more single issue voters now. And that anyone that doesn't get the point you are making is "not tied to reality".

Race. Taxes. Sustainability. Abortion. Religion. Environment. Guns. Education. Etc.

Cognitive dissonance sets in when you have two issues split between the two different parties?

The per unit cost of trolling is a lot lower now that everyone has access to the internet. We've always been susceptible to it but it was just hard to troll *everybody* like twitter lets you do now.

We are tribal, and have evolved to be 10% wolves and 90% sheep. That's a lot of unquestioning obedience to authority out there. Combine that with the low cost of broadcasting conformist propaganda, e.g. Breitbart, and billionaires willing to fund it, and you've got our current dystopian nightmare.

more "hitler" talk.

[gtn130]

What's interesting is my radical left wing home town has a discussion page and the arguments there are just as feces-flinging as the arguments everywhere else. It's because we're all so stupid and juvenile that we are easily triggered by trolls. It just so happens that at the national level all the trolls are RWNJ gasbags, starting with the so-called "President."

I think leaving their wrong and hateful views unchallenged is a mistake.

I think it's ok to laugh at weak attempts to manipulate you or spread hilariously inaccurate lies. But letting yourself get triggered by trolls is what they want. Trump is proof you can't legislate by trolling, it's been a complete dumpsterfire so far. My advice would be to turn away from trolls who are just trying to get you to turn to the dark side, and turn towards positive things. One hour spent volunteering for your local representative is probably a thousand times more productive than an hour spent "challenging" stupidity on the internet.

Dude, Trump won the election. I'm not remotely triggered by SD20 and his brand of stupidity, but bystanders are often super dumb and impressionable. Letting SD20 spew his garbage all over the thread is *dckingsfan voice* why Trump won. Nobody thought he could win, so nobody was motivated to shut down these clowns spreading their idiocy like the plague. People didn't even bother showing up to vote because nobody thought Trump would win!

Anyone who supports Trump today should be treated like the malevolent idiot that they are. Blurring the lines between good/evil and intelligent/idiotic greatly benefits Trump.

Also, I did quite a bit in 2016 with both my time and money, and I'll certainly do the same for the midterms.

[stilldropin20]

This is typically my approach tbh. I blocked him a long time ago because his posts are so long and numerous that scrolling through them is a chore. Occasionally I'll take a look and a read a few lines, but I can't imagine actually reading a full SD20 post. Who has that kind of time?

When I see him say something ban-worthy, though, I'll call it out because he should have been banned a long time ago. Blatantly lying and sharing disinformation crosses a line imo.

Not really... if he starts repeating Rothschild conspiracy theories and claims Jews controlled the central banks in Western Europe all through the 20th Century, which is part of the argument Hitler used to justify the final solution, that's hate speech and should be banned. I was on a facebook discussion group where the whole thing had to be shut down because of that.

Being ignorant/crazy/wrong is not a bannable offense. I'm still not sure I understand why Hands was banned, it had something to do with being persistently obnoxious. I suppose if Hands persistent nonsense-based blathering was grounds for banning, sd20 is certainly going down that same road. Personally I don't think tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy-theory spouting lunatics should be banned - we're all adult enough to know not to engage in that sort of stuff.

This isn't a court of law. If it worsens the experience for everyone else on a consistent basis, it's a bannable offense in my opinion. Maybe there are rules that say otherwise, but those rules are dumb.

Arguing in bad faith is the most irritating thing people do in discourse. Being a RWNJ and littering the thread with fake news is also pretty damn obnoxious. I think at some point a constant flow of fake news garbage winds up being pernicious in a gaslighty kind of way.

He's just a massive net negative to the thread (and to society)

i told you guys before. start a thread. liberals only and i wont read it nor post in it so long as you dont post in this one anymore. I bet you more people stay here with me and Nate than go to your liberal only thread.

[stilldropin20]

I think leaving their wrong and hateful views unchallenged is a mistake.

I think it's ok to laugh at weak attempts to manipulate you or spread hilariously inaccurate lies. But letting yourself get triggered by trolls is what they want. Trump is proof you can't legislate by trolling, it's been a complete dumpsterfire so far. My advice would be to turn away from trolls who are just trying to get you to turn to the dark side, and turn towards positive things. One hour spent volunteering for your local representative is probably a thousand times more productive than an hour spent "challenging" stupidity on the internet.

Dude, Trump won the election. I'm not remotely triggered by SD20 and his brand of stupidity, but bystanders are often super dumb and impressionable. Letting SD20 spew his garbage all over the thread is *dckingsfan voice* why Trump won. Nobody thought he could win, so nobody was motivated to shut down these clowns spreading their idiocy like the plague. People didn't even bother showing up to vote because nobody thought Trump would win!

Anyone who supports Trump today should be treated like the malevolent idiot that they are. Blurring the lines between good/evil and intelligent/idiotic greatly benefits Trump.

Also, I did quite a bit in 2016 with both my time and money, and I'll certainly do the same for the midterms.

SD20 swung the election!!!

monte, this is instant hall of fame material and you know it!!

[Wizardspride]

Under the bus....

Read on Twitter

?s=20p!

[Zonkerbl]

I think leaving their wrong and hateful views unchallenged is a mistake.

I think it's ok to laugh at weak attempts to manipulate you or spread hilariously inaccurate lies. But letting yourself get triggered by trolls is what they want. Trump is proof you can't legislate by trolling, it's been a complete dumpsterfire so far. My advice would be to turn away from trolls who are just trying to get you to turn to the dark side, and turn towards positive things. One hour spent volunteering for your local representative is probably a thousand times more productive than an hour spent "challenging" stupidity on the internet.

Dude, Trump won the election. I'm not remotely triggered by SD20 and his brand of stupidity, but bystanders are often super dumb and impressionable. Letting SD20 spew his garbage all over the thread is *dckingsfan voice* why Trump won. Nobody thought he could win, so nobody was motivated to shut down these clowns spreading their idiocy like the plague. People didn't even bother showing up to vote because nobody thought Trump would win!

Anyone who supports Trump today should be treated like the malevolent idiot that they are. Blurring the lines between good/evil and intelligent/idiotic greatly benefits Trump.

Also, I did quite a bit in 2016 with both my time and money, and I'll certainly do the same for the midterms.

Ok, so if you've got a bunch of idiot bystanders in a thread, and you quote some idiot and respond to him, I would just like to point out to you that you are 1) legitimizing the stupidity 2) you are rebroadcasting the stupidity and 3) the idiots on the sidelines *can't be persuaded*. That's what makes them idiots. I used to think I was arguing on behalf of folks on the sidelines too but I'm less conceited now, I hope.

Is rebroadcasting stupidity really your best option? Trump won because the mainstream media gave him several billion dollars of free advertising, and James Comey made an extremely stupid mistake on October 28, and a bunch of other stupid things that all came together. Letting stupid people get away with being stupid is maybe factor #99 on that list.

[stilldropin20]

I think it's ok to laugh at weak attempts to manipulate you or spread hilariously inaccurate lies. But letting yourself get triggered by trolls is what they want. Trump is proof you can't legislate by trolling, it's been a complete dumpsterfire so far. My advice would be to turn away from trolls who are just trying to get you to turn to the dark side, and turn towards positive things. One hour spent volunteering for your local representative is probably a thousand times more productive than an hour spent "challenging" stupidity on the internet.

Dude, Trump won the election. I'm not remotely triggered by SD20 and his brand of stupidity, but bystanders are often super dumb and impressionable. Letting SD20 spew his garbage all over the thread is *dckingsfan voice* why Trump won. Nobody thought he could win, so nobody was motivated to shut down these clowns spreading their idiocy like the plague. People didn't even bother showing up to vote because nobody thought Trump would win!

Anyone who supports Trump today should be treated like the malevolent idiot that they are. Blurring the lines between good/evil and intelligent/idiotic greatly benefits Trump.

Also, I did quite a bit in 2016 with both my time and money, and I'll certainly do the same for the midterms.

Ok, so if you've got a bunch of idiot bystanders in a thread, and you quote some idiot and respond to him, I would just like to point out to you that you are 1) legitimizing the stupidity 2) you are rebroadcasting the stupidity and 3) the idiots on the sidelines *can't be persuaded*. That's what makes them idiots. I used to think I was arguing on behalf of folks on the sidelines too but I'm less conceited now, I hope.

Is rebroadcasting stupidity really your best option? Trump won because the mainstream media gave him several billion dollars of free advertising, and James Comey made an extremely stupid mistake on October 28, and a bunch of other stupid things that all came together. Letting stupid people get away with being stupid is maybe factor #99 on that list.

What no charge of campaign finance violations!!!!

news flash. trump is interesting. because he is telling the best story. so no, the media didn't give him free advertising. they followed the most compelling story. and if you have not notice you guys have done almost nothing but talk about trump for almost 4 straight years.

[gtn130]

Ok, so if you've got a bunch of idiot bystanders in a thread, and you quote some idiot and respond to him, I would just like to point out to you that you are 1) legitimizing the stupidity 2) you are rebroadcasting the stupidity and 3) the idiots on the sidelines *can't be persuaded*. That's what makes them idiots. I used to think I was arguing on behalf of folks on the sidelines too but I'm less conceited now, I hope.

That's not how it works.

The reason Hillary's 'scandals' are so effective in harming her viability is that Fox News et al shout about them from the rooftops around the clock, and the folks who aren't paying attention hear a bunch of noise and think "I hear about scandal on both sides. Politicians so scummy smh" and then suddenly Trump and Hillary are neck and neck. When apolitical casual observers hear about Uranium One and Seth Rich at the water cooler, they're not going back to their computers to research the facts. They'll shrug and vote for tax cuts or banning those scary terrorist muslims because the lines haven't been drawn clearly enough and they'll just vote based on their gut or fear or whatever else.

Instead of allowing this dynamic to occur, people should embarrass the cretins who are spouting wrong and stupid things. It should be made crystal clear that supporting Trump is a self-own and means supporting lots of awful things that you'd be ashamed to acknowledge. Supporting Trump should be taboo.

And I don't post here for moralistic or altruistic reasons - I post here when I'm bored and because it's entertaining. I'm arguing about the position toward Trump and his supporters that I think we should be taking. Leaving Deplorable views unchallenged is a mistake. That's my thesis.

[closg00]

Under the bus....

Read on Twitter

?s=20p!

This is classic gaslighting, Trump does this constantly and the administration engages in it as-well. She knew what was up and immediately squashed that sh_it.

[dckingsfan]

Wow... not good. As we watch the sideshow that is Hillary and Trump:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53651

[dckingsfan]

I wonder if trolling works better now and if we are more reactive than in the past? Or if it has always been that way?

It does seem like we are more polarized now - but that may be outcome bias.

It "seems like" there are more single issue voters now. And that anyone that doesn't get the point you are making is "not tied to reality".

Race. Taxes. Sustainability. Abortion. Religion. Environment. Guns. Education. Etc.

Cognitive dissonance sets in when you have two issues split between the two different parties?

Trolling has always been effective, but the game has changed and people are only just now starting to realize some of the possibilities. The real gamechanger is social media, though. The medium still very much is the message and we had a brand new medium of communication dropped into our laps and nobody really noticed what that would mean. So yeah, Trolling was always effective, but it was much, much harder to do. Social media has made trolling much easier to do and therefore much more effective. And so you have people who have exploited social media to sow division to further their own ends.

Good points... And now you can be much more targeted as well to exploit the divisions...

[stilldropin20]

The biggest injustice in the entire United States is the Federal Reserve act of 1913.

This is the biggest deep state activity.

This is where all social justice warriors should begin their fight.

All of us. All Americans. Have become enslaved to the federal reserve act via income taxes which were created as collateral for the debt on our nation that this bank would create. We used to never pay income taxes in this country. Now we pay as much as 40% income taxes and another 10 to 15% salt.

That’s the biggest danger biggest problem we face. The federal reserve act allows us to borrow into a Bolivian 5% interest rates to the federal reserve bank.

Fix this. and you fix.nearly.every. other. single. problem. in. this. country.


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[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Zonkerbl]

Here's my last point:

We are going to lose the 2018 elections. If the elections were held two months ago the Dems would have won in a landslide. Now they'll net maybe 20 seats, max, which isn't enough to retake the House. If we spin our wheels online and waste our opportunity to retake the House, Trump will get away with all the treason he committed during and after the election. We'll never uncover the true story explaining why Trump drools over Putin's nutsack constantly. We'll never send any of those criminals to jail. Yelling at people online makes you feel good, I get it. But it accomplishes nothing important.

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Seems bad

[TGW]

Wow... not good. As we watch the sideshow that is Hillary and Trump:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53651

You can blame the ridiculous tax cuts for the rich and the corporations for that.

[dckingsfan]

Wow... not good. As we watch the sideshow that is Hillary and Trump:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53651

You can blame the ridiculous tax cuts for the rich and the corporations for that.

Partially anyway. It is a perfect storm of baseline spending (Ds), runaway healthcare spending due to cost drivers (Ds&Rs), unwanted wars (Rs), stupid tax policies (Ds&Rs) with ridiculous carveouts (Ds&Rs) and then the cherry on top, this latest tax cut (Rs) that does nothing to help sustainability and the budget.

BTW, this latest tax cut is pretty unpopular now. I am hoping that Zonk is wrong about the mid-terms, the Rs are going to be at least partially on the tax cut.

[dckingsfan]

The biggest injustice in the entire United States is the Federal Reserve act of 1913.

This is the biggest deep state activity.

This is where all social justice warriors should begin their fight.

All of us. All Americans. Have become enslaved to the federal reserve act via income taxes which were created as collateral for the debt on our nation that this bank would create. We used to never pay income taxes in this country. Now we pay as much as 40% income taxes and another 10 to 15% salt.

That’s the biggest danger biggest problem we face. The federal reserve act allows us to borrow into a Bolivian 5% interest rates to the federal reserve bank.

Fix this. and you fix.nearly.every. other. single. problem. in. this. country.

I think income taxes in and of themselves aren't the singular problem. They are the least regressive of the taxes.

The issue are 1) not living within the receipts collected by the government and 2) creating all types of carveouts to those same the income taxes.

[stilldropin20]

The biggest injustice in the entire United States is the Federal Reserve act of 1913.

This is the biggest deep state activity.

This is where all social justice warriors should begin their fight.

All of us. All Americans. Have become enslaved to the federal reserve act via income taxes which were created as collateral for the debt on our nation that this bank would create. We used to never pay income taxes in this country. Now we pay as much as 40% income taxes and another 10 to 15% salt.

That’s the biggest danger biggest problem we face. The federal reserve act allows us to borrow into a Bolivian 5% interest rates to the federal reserve bank.

Fix this. and you fix.nearly.every. other. single. problem. in. this. country.

I think income taxes in and of themselves aren't the singular problem. They are the least regressive of the taxes.

The issue are 1) not living within the receipts collected by the government and 2) creating all types of carveouts to those same the income taxes.

That’s one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is if there were no income taxes used as collateral by our government to continue to borrow excessively from the federal reserve, then it would likely induce more responsible borrowing and spending.

Especially if instead of income taxes being used as collateral to borrow against, if the death tax was used to borrow against...that most of those carve outs and loopholes would likely get closed. And the death tax could be as much as 50% or higher.

More importantly, the wealthy elite ruling class would now have a vested interest in government spending less money not more.

So theoretically we would borrow less, spend less, and likely spend more responsibly. On programs that work. Because the wealthy rulling class would now have a vested interest and all of that becoming a reality Because it’s their money not the working class is money that she used to pay for all the government programs.

Fixing the Federal Reserve and the using income taxes as collateral for borrowing fixes many many many many other things that you talk about every single day in this thread.


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[verbal8]

I know the districts are tilted to Republicans, but I still think the Democrats have a good shot.
What do Republicans run on? Too close to Trump loses the swing voters. Too much distancing to reach the middle and the Trumpers stay home.

Here's my last point:

We are going to lose the 2018 elections. If the elections were held two months ago the Dems would have won in a landslide. Now they'll net maybe 20 seats, max, which isn't enough to retake the House. If we spin our wheels online and waste our opportunity to retake the House, Trump will get away with all the treason he committed during and after the election. We'll never uncover the true story explaining why Trump drools over Putin's nutsack constantly. We'll never send any of those criminals to jail. Yelling at people online makes you feel good, I get it. But it accomplishes nothing important.