Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[DCZards]

In response to PIF's post:

1. Rui showed that he can play in the NBA -- he hasn't yet shown that he can play well, but he's not a bust.
Agree for the most part. I think Rui has to at least show he can knockdown that midrange jumper with more consistency. He did show more toughness, especially on the boards, after he returned from the injury.

2. Isaac Bonga showed that he has a high ceiling & can develop (already has).
As I’m sure you recall, I had high hopes for Bonga going into the season. His combo of length and defensive intensity are a plus. Showed a little more on offense than I expected. Has chance of becoming a decent 3pt shooter.

3. Thomas Bryant had a slow start but then improved towards his extraordinary 2018-19 numbers. He has significant problems defensively, but he also has a whole lot going for him.
I was very impressed by how Bryant played in the bubble games. Shot the ball well and even stepped it up on D at times. He really relished being “the guy.”

4. Brad carried an incredible load & carried it off!
Ditto

5. Troy Brown improved significantly on a very good rookie season.
Troy can be a joy to watch with the ball in the hands. Impressive and creative passer, especially in the pick-and-roll. Needs to work on that shooting though.

6. Moe Wagner showed that he could be a solid journeyman big -- if (a big if, alas) he cuts down his fouls & turnovers by a fair amount. Still...
Moe was a big surprise the first half of the season…but laid an egg after coming back from an injury. Need to find out which is the real Moe Wagner.

7. We got a pleasant surprise when the undrafted Garrison Mathews gave us good reason to believe that he can play at the NBA level & produce.
Not yet sold on Mathews. Need to see more. Robinson could turn out to be as good or better. Jerome showed some offensive diversity during the bubble games, getting into the paint and setting up teammates with good passes. He also plays solid defense. Brooks singled out Robinson’s D in the aftermath of the bubble games.

8. John Wall healed up & rehabbed with no backwards steps.
Really looking forward to seeing Wallstar and BB on the court together again.

9. We came out of the season with Bird rights over 2 potentially helpful veterans: Bertans & Napier.
Need to make resigning Bertans a priority. Three pt. shooting is a major weapon in today’s NBA and Davis will get a TON of open looks playing next to Wall and Beal. Would like to have Napier back, but can live with Ish as the backup PG, especially with Troy there to share the ballhandling chores.

[payitforward]

No worries, Ruz -- you are by no means a jerk!

Maybe "successful" wasn't the best word.

I thought it was more fun to watch the Wizards than it had been for a while, & I very definitely got the sense of a team on the road towards something -- not very far along the road, it's true! but still... not a team treading water in the Ernie manner.

OTOH, I would disagree with "...if we want to contend for anything more than (tail end of the playoffs) and don't want to do a complete rebuild, we need to add multiple 2-way players and probably a defensive-minded coach"

I disagree in the sense that I don't think adding multiple veterans of any kind will enable us to contend for anything other than "tail end of the playoffs."

I.e. we *do* need a complete rebuild. & that's what Tommy is undertaking. Of the 17 players on the Wizards two years ago (including 2-way players), 15 of them are gone! We don't have a single player other than Wall/Beal who are from the Ernie era -- unless you want to count Bryant.

That's essentially a total turnover in 16 months -- & given that Wall has been altogether untradable (huge contract & injured) over that period.... how much more radically can you rebuild a team?!

Not to mention that other than Beal/Wall, we have exactly 1 player with a guaranteed contract for next year (i.e. '21-22). Again... that's a lightning quick tear-down!

[payitforward]

Zards -- the reason I want to sign Napier is that it might make it possible to trade Ish at the deadline. It's always a plus when you get something for an expiring player.

Of course we can't be "sold" on Mathews, but he was still a pleasant surprise -- to say the least. As to Jerome Robinson, I'd like to see him make it but... "improvement" on awful isn't enough to warrant optimism. In any case, we'll have him this year so we'll get to see. I hope to Hell we don't guarantee him for 21-22.

[TGW]

Hypothetical: if the Wolves offered D'Angelo Russell and the #1 for Beal (and filler), should the Wizards do this? Russell is a downgrade from Beal, but maybe you flip the #1 for multiple picks or just take Wiseman or Ball and call it a day?

[pcbothwel]

Hypothetical: if the Wolves offered D'Angelo Russell and the #1 for Beal (and filler), should the Wizards do this? Russell is a downgrade from Beal, but maybe you flip the #1 for multiple picks or just take Wiseman or Ball and call it a day?

Pass. High usage Guard with middling efficiency and terrible defense for 30M per year is a negative contract. There will be much better deals available at the deadline and next summer.

[payitforward]

Hypothetical: if the Wolves offered D'Angelo Russell and the #1 for Beal (and filler), should the Wizards do this? Russell is a downgrade from Beal, but maybe you flip the #1 for multiple picks or just take Wiseman or Ball and call it a day?

Pass. High usage Guard with middling efficiency and terrible defense for 30M per year is a negative contract. There will be much better deals available at the deadline and next summer.

Well, first off, no one would take this deal because they wanted D'Angelo Russell, so I'm not sure I understand the objection. You'd take it if you thought there was someone to get at #1 who's better than Beal.

For that reason, whether the deal is interesting depends on how you see Anthony Edwards &/or James Wiseman. You'd put up with Russell is all.

[nate33]

I caught some of Bill Simmons draft lottery podcast today. They spend a lot of time talking about the Sixers and what trades would help them. They debated a Simmons for Beal swap, but most of the guys agreed that the Sixers should trade Embiid before they trade Simmons and that a trade centered around Embiid for Beal might make more sense.

That actually makes a TON of sense for us. What about Beal + Bryant + Ish + #9 for Embiid + Richardson?

The resulting lineup is perfectly balanced:

PG Wall/Napier
SG Richardson/Brown
SF Bertans/Bonga
PF Hachimura/pick or vet
C Embiid/Wagner

Embiid is the primary option. Wall is the primary perimeter creator and can run pick-and-roll with Embiid or Rui. Bertans spaces the floor. Richardson and Bonga are 3&D specialists. Brown's and Napier are complimentary on the 2nd unit. The defense should be massively improved with Embiid in the paint and Wall and Richarson in the backcourt. Maybe add a defensive minded veteran PF like Millsap as a mentor for Rui.

Wall is 29 (almost 30). Bertans is 27. Embiid and Richardson are 26. They could play together for a while.

For Philly, they come away with a very well balanced lineup as well:

PG Milton/Ish
SG Beal/Korkmaz
SF Harris/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Scott
C Horford/Bryant

Ideally, they shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

[payitforward]

What a super-interesting idea, nate!

If possible, instead of Richardson I would prefer to take back Shake Milton & Philly's #21 pick (from OKC) -- or else just the pick. Or Milton & their #34 pick. Or even just Milton with an agreement to buy their #34 pick.

At that point, there'd be no need to re-sign Napier IMO. But... we'd have to pedal fast to figure out what we're doing at SG! Still, long-term it's a much better deal for us. Would they balk at this?

edit: main reason for my changes is that we are not far enough along that we can afford to forego a pick this year.

[nate33]

What a super-interesting idea, nate!

If possible, instead of Richardson I would prefer to take back Shake Milton & Philly's #21 pick (from OKC) -- or else just the pick. Or Milton & their #34 pick. Or even just Milton with an agreement to buy their #34 pick.

At that point, there'd be no need to re-sign Napier IMO. But... we'd have to pedal fast to figure out what we're doing at SG! Still, long-term it's a much better deal for us. Would they balk at this?

I disagree with your modification. With Wall already 30, and with Embiid probably not having a long prime with his health and fitness issues, I wouldn't be thinking about the long term. This trade gets us into contention right now if Wall is 90% of his former self. On a win now team, I'd rather have Josh Richardson who was an above-average SG just a year ago (he is an excellent defender). I also think Philly would want to keep Milton to fill their hole at PG unless they already have a trade lined up to upgrade at PG.

I really like the balance of the Wall/Richardson backcourt and Embiid up front because they're all 2-way players. Then we sprinkle in a selection of role-playing forwards in Brown, Bertans, Bonga and Hachimura to give us whatever combination of shooting, play-making and defense that are needed to match up on a given night. I don't think the team is a sure thing to win a championship or anything, but they could win 50 games and make a few deep runs in the playoffs.

[payitforward]

Hmmm, let's assume for a moment that Philly has no interest in trading Embiid -- & that we have no interest in trading Beal for that matter. After all, blockbuster trades of team stars are pretty rare. Is there still enough interesting in the rest of these assets that might lead to a trade?

I.e. might we be interested in giving them our #9 for their #21 &... what else?

The most obvious thought is Shake Milton. I think that unless Okongwu was there at #9, I would consider that. If it also included their #34 pick... I wouldn't hesitate.

Now, I don't know whether this would make sense for them -- they seem to have Milton penciled in as their starter at PG.

[payitforward]

What a super-interesting idea, nate!

If possible, instead of Richardson I would prefer to take back Shake Milton & Philly's #21 pick (from OKC) -- or else just the pick. Or Milton & their #34 pick. Or even just Milton with an agreement to buy their #34 pick.

At that point, there'd be no need to re-sign Napier IMO. But... we'd have to pedal fast to figure out what we're doing at SG! Still, long-term it's a much better deal for us. Would they balk at this?

I disagree with your modification. With Wall already 30, and with Embiid probably not having a long prime with his health and fitness issues, I wouldn't be thinking about the long term....

I hadn't thought of it that way, nate -- but I get your point.

[prime1time]

What do people think about Embiid? I'd give up anyone and anything but Beal. But we still probably wouldn't have enough.

[prime1time]

I caught some of Bill Simmons draft lottery podcast today. They spend a lot of time talking about the Sixers and what trades would help them. They debated a Simmons for Beal swap, but most of the guys agreed that the Sixers should trade Embiid before they trade Simmons and that a trade centered around Embiid for Beal might make more sense.

That actually makes a TON of sense for us. What about Beal + Bryant + Ish + #9 for Embiid + Richardson?

The resulting lineup is perfectly balanced:

PG Wall/Napier
SG Richardson/Brown
SF Bertans/Bonga
PF Hachimura/pick or vet
C Embiid/Wagner

Embiid is the primary option. Wall is the primary perimeter creator and can run pick-and-roll with Embiid or Rui. Bertans spaces the floor. Richardson and Bonga are 3&D specialists. Brown's and Napier are complimentary on the 2nd unit. The defense should be massively improved with Embiid in the paint and Wall and Richarson in the backcourt. Maybe add a defensive minded veteran PF like Millsap as a mentor for Rui.

Wall is 29 (almost 30). Bertans is 27. Embiid and Richardson are 26. They could play together for a while.

For Philly, they come away with a very well balanced lineup as well:

PG Milton/Ish
SG Beal/Korkmaz
SF Harris/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Scott
C Horford/Bryant

Ideally, they shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

I don't really see that team being viable. We need Embiid and Beal. If I can't have Embiid and keep Beal then I don't want Embiid. That team is worse than the current 76ers team.

[trast66]

I caught some of Bill Simmons draft lottery podcast today. They spend a lot of time talking about the Sixers and what trades would help them. They debated a Simmons for Beal swap, but most of the guys agreed that the Sixers should trade Embiid before they trade Simmons and that a trade centered around Embiid for Beal might make more sense.

That actually makes a TON of sense for us. What about Beal + Bryant + Ish + #9 for Embiid + Richardson?

The resulting lineup is perfectly balanced:

PG Wall/Napier
SG Richardson/Brown
SF Bertans/Bonga
PF Hachimura/pick or vet
C Embiid/Wagner

Embiid is the primary option. Wall is the primary perimeter creator and can run pick-and-roll with Embiid or Rui. Bertans spaces the floor. Richardson and Bonga are 3&D specialists. Brown's and Napier are complimentary on the 2nd unit. The defense should be massively improved with Embiid in the paint and Wall and Richarson in the backcourt. Maybe add a defensive minded veteran PF like Millsap as a mentor for Rui.

Wall is 29 (almost 30). Bertans is 27. Embiid and Richardson are 26. They could play together for a while.

For Philly, they come away with a very well balanced lineup as well:

PG Milton/Ish
SG Beal/Korkmaz
SF Harris/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Scott
C Horford/Bryant

Ideally, they shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

I’d love this. Elton Brand has been on a Grunfeldian roll the last two years so anything’s possible with the Sixers.

I don’t think Ted would allow it, unless Brad approved of course.

[payitforward]

...Elton Brand has been on a Grunfeldian roll the last two years....

LOL.

[WallToWall]

I caught some of Bill Simmons draft lottery podcast today. They spend a lot of time talking about the Sixers and what trades would help them. They debated a Simmons for Beal swap, but most of the guys agreed that the Sixers should trade Embiid before they trade Simmons and that a trade centered around Embiid for Beal might make more sense.

That actually makes a TON of sense for us. What about Beal + Bryant + Ish + #9 for Embiid + Richardson?

The resulting lineup is perfectly balanced:

PG Wall/Napier
SG Richardson/Brown
SF Bertans/Bonga
PF Hachimura/pick or vet
C Embiid/Wagner

Embiid is the primary option. Wall is the primary perimeter creator and can run pick-and-roll with Embiid or Rui. Bertans spaces the floor. Richardson and Bonga are 3&D specialists. Brown's and Napier are complimentary on the 2nd unit. The defense should be massively improved with Embiid in the paint and Wall and Richarson in the backcourt. Maybe add a defensive minded veteran PF like Millsap as a mentor for Rui.

Wall is 29 (almost 30). Bertans is 27. Embiid and Richardson are 26. They could play together for a while.

For Philly, they come away with a very well balanced lineup as well:

PG Milton/Ish
SG Beal/Korkmaz
SF Harris/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Scott
C Horford/Bryant

Ideally, they shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

I like this trade! It would be good to have a special talent playing C and teaming with Wall. However, I dont think it is a well balanced team. With Bertans playing SF, and Hach playing PF, we would have no D at those positions. As good as Embiid is, he would foul out in not time trying to cover up for those two positions.

[pcbothwel]

I caught some of Bill Simmons draft lottery podcast today. They spend a lot of time talking about the Sixers and what trades would help them. They debated a Simmons for Beal swap, but most of the guys agreed that the Sixers should trade Embiid before they trade Simmons and that a trade centered around Embiid for Beal might make more sense.

That actually makes a TON of sense for us. What about Beal + Bryant + Ish + #9 for Embiid + Richardson?

The resulting lineup is perfectly balanced:

PG Wall/Napier
SG Richardson/Brown
SF Bertans/Bonga
PF Hachimura/pick or vet
C Embiid/Wagner

Embiid is the primary option. Wall is the primary perimeter creator and can run pick-and-roll with Embiid or Rui. Bertans spaces the floor. Richardson and Bonga are 3&D specialists. Brown's and Napier are complimentary on the 2nd unit. The defense should be massively improved with Embiid in the paint and Wall and Richarson in the backcourt. Maybe add a defensive minded veteran PF like Millsap as a mentor for Rui.

Wall is 29 (almost 30). Bertans is 27. Embiid and Richardson are 26. They could play together for a while.

For Philly, they come away with a very well balanced lineup as well:

PG Milton/Ish
SG Beal/Korkmaz
SF Harris/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Scott
C Horford/Bryant

Ideally, they shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

I don't really see that team being viable. We need Embiid and Beal. If I can't have Embiid and keep Beal then I don't want Embiid. That team is worse than the current 76ers team.

This... Why on earth do people think its a good idea to move Beal for Embiid... AND add in our draft pick. Crazy.

I love Embiid (Go read the draft thread that year. I saw Hakeem and thought he was a generational talent). But you simply cant move All-NBA Caliber guard in his prime for Big in todays NBA.

Trading Beal and Okongwu for Embiid would be terrible value.

[payitforward]

...Ideally, they (i.e. Philly) shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

Somehow I missed this last bit from your trade scenario....

Barring the speculative Embiid trade, suppose we were trading the #9 pick for a lower pick & a player.... Is there an interesting move you can see, nate?

Spurs are only 2 spots down from us, so they are not likely the ideal trade partner. But, could we get the Nets # 19 & Jarrett Allen for our #9 &... what?

Say Bryant & the #9 for Allen & the #19 -- does that make any sense at all?

I'm not proposing anything here... just looking for your thoughts. Or anyone's....

[TGW]

John Wall for Tobias Harris, Shake Milton, and their 2020 FRP. Is it worth it to take on that extra year of salary?

[nate33]

...Ideally, they (i.e. Philly) shop the #9 pick filler salary for an upgrade at PG. Could they pry away Derrick White or Dejounte Murray from San Antonio? Or maybe just draft a guy like Haliburton?

Somehow I missed this last bit from your trade scenario....

Barring the speculative Embiid trade, suppose we were trading the #9 pick for a lower pick & a player.... Is there an interesting move you can see, nate?

Spurs are only 2 spots down from us, so they are not likely the ideal trade partner. But, could we get the Nets # 19 & Jarrett Allen for our #9 &... what?

Say Bryant & the #9 for Allen & the #19 -- does that make any sense at all?

I'm not proposing anything here... just looking for your thoughts. Or anyone's....

I definitely do that Allen trade. I don't see why Brooklyn would, though. I don't think the rest of the league values Bryant as anything more than a decent backup center on a somewhat expensive contract.