Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[The Consiglieri]

I think the biggest problems with this are three fold:

#1: Deni is playing out in the most ceiling of all possible outcomes, so far anyway, post trade.

#2: We got totally ----ed by the lottery in '24-'25, so the "hurts the tank" argument came out pretty flacid in May, for the first of 2 years where it was a viable argument for most.

#3: Of the assets acquired so far via the trade, Bub, definitely looks inferior to Deni (though better at comparable ages) as a player in the NBA, the other pick is years down the road, and the "hurts the tank" argument only applies vigorously to one last season.

To me anyway, if we do land a generational talent via this draft, the trade becomes a win for me, though I don't think Deni fans can or will back away until its proven either Bub, the player we pick in '26, or the player with the other 1st ends up being better than Deni, which I can understand, even if I disagree with it (because the trade was done FOR ALL OF those reasons, and not just Bub or a random future first (indeed I would argue the trade was made primarily to protect the '26 first rounder and to a lesser extent Bub and the other random first).

Part of me is annoyed at this, because it feels so tired, but then I realize my own hypocrisy, because I can't go over my own frustration with the Commanders, in my view, being idiots, and taking Daniels over Maye. I had Maye as the better college prospect (started 2 years, both years were better than any of Daniels seasons other than his fifth, 2 years younger, better arm, and much better frame for the NFL), and it took a while, but now halfway through season 2 for the two QB prospects, it definitely looks like I was right, my concerns that Daniels would be injury prone, and that Maye would be able to physically handle the NFL are already playing out, and Maye is also already producing if not as good a season as Daniels, a damn good one, with even worse weapons, and again, he's two years younger. I don't think I ever get over that if I'm proven right in my eval, because to me it was obvious, though most disagreed with me (I ended up with Maye on 8 of my 14 Dynasty Teams, and Daniels on just 1 to back my take).

So I kinda get, if a trade is made, that's obviously one sided, and this seemed even at the time, like they were buying with 1 quarter 3 dimes and a nickel, rather than dollar for a dollar, that this is always going to sting, I think it hurts doubly so, because so many of his fans, and wizards fans didn't see this coming (probably a little too much of me gets a minor ego stroke by the fact that I posted that he was the most likely guy to get traded because he was the most valuable asset that could hurt the tank going forward and that his top 10 caliber NBA contract was a waste on a team trying to tank, and so many on the board just thought that was ridiculous, and then it actually happened like 3 months after I said it. But for far less than I was expecting in the trade (I thought at least 1 top 5-10 pick in a good draft ('25 or '26), and at least 1 more future first, and more goodies).

[penbeast0]

Does any one remember the contingent on this board claiming Brogdon was a great asset and now he retires essentially a year later?

I think the claim was he was a worthy upside risk if he could stay healthy and might be tradeable for decent value. Never that he was going to be an asset to the Wiz. He couldn't stay healthy and proved nothing more than salary filler.

Basically the same risk we are taking with Kris Middleton. If he stays healthy, we hope to get decent trade value for him.

[Dark Faze]

Part of me is annoyed at this, because it feels so tired, but then I realize my own hypocrisy, because I can't go over my own frustration with the Commanders, in my view, being idiots, and taking Daniels over Maye. I had Maye as the better college prospect (started 2 years, both years were better than any of Daniels seasons other than his fifth, 2 years younger, better arm, and much better frame for the NFL), and it took a while, but now halfway through season 2 for the two QB prospects, it definitely looks like I was right, my concerns that Daniels would be injury prone, and that Maye would be able to physically handle the NFL are already playing out, and Maye is also already producing if not as good a season as Daniels, a damn good one, with even worse weapons, and again, he's two years younger. I don't think I ever get over that if I'm proven right in my eval, because to me it was obvious, though most disagreed with me (I ended up with Maye on 8 of my 14 Dynasty Teams, and Daniels on just 1 to back my take).

Just wanted to comment on this.

1. We have the 8th hardest schedule, Patriots have the 30th hardest.
2. Diggs is better than Terry, and we are injured as all hell right now. No weapons.
3. Maye has 12 TD's 2 ints in 7 games. JD has 8 TD's, 1 int through 5 games.

It's reasonable to be concerned about injuries, and that's worth keeping an eye on for sure, but it's wayyyy to early to act like JD was a miss.

[tontoz]

Part of me is annoyed at this, because it feels so tired, but then I realize my own hypocrisy, because I can't go over my own frustration with the Commanders, in my view, being idiots, and taking Daniels over Maye. I had Maye as the better college prospect (started 2 years, both years were better than any of Daniels seasons other than his fifth, 2 years younger, better arm, and much better frame for the NFL), and it took a while, but now halfway through season 2 for the two QB prospects, it definitely looks like I was right, my concerns that Daniels would be injury prone, and that Maye would be able to physically handle the NFL are already playing out, and Maye is also already producing if not as good a season as Daniels, a damn good one, with even worse weapons, and again, he's two years younger. I don't think I ever get over that if I'm proven right in my eval, because to me it was obvious, though most disagreed with me (I ended up with Maye on 8 of my 14 Dynasty Teams, and Daniels on just 1 to back my take).

Just wanted to comment on this.

1. We have the 8th hardest schedule, Patriots have the 30th hardest.
2. Diggs is better than Terry, and we are injured as all hell right now. No weapons.
3. Maye has 12 TD's 2 ints in 7 games. JD has 8 TD's, 1 int through 5 games.

It's reasonable to be concerned about injuries, and that's worth keeping an eye on for sure, but it's wayyyy to early to act like JD was a miss.

JD had arguably the best rookie season for a QB in NFL history so he clearly isn't a miss. He carried us to the NFC championship.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Does any one remember the contingent on this board claiming Brogdon was a great asset and now he retires essentially a year later?

I think the claim was he was a worthy upside risk if he could stay healthy and might be tradeable for decent value. Never that he was going to be an asset to the Wiz. He couldn't stay healthy and proved nothing more than salary filler.

Basically the same risk we are taking with Kris Middleton. If he stays healthy, we hope to get decent trade value for him.

"Worthy upside risk" is a massive stretch, a polite euphemism for a veteran. Brogdon had a reputation for being injury prone and one the wrong side of 30. He played 60 game only three times in his career, one being his rookie year. The argument again is that he was a key piece of the "massive haul" we got for Deni, because some were so willing to drink the Dawkin's kool-aid, that they ignored reality. You say that he "might be tradeable for decent value. Never that he was going to be an asset to the Wizards"... huh? There one in the same, an asset is something you can derive value out of whether not matter if that asset was used to absorb minutes on the team or you trade him for something else. This isn't a technicality, there were people saying Brogdon was one of the reasons we apparently got said "haul".

Also comparing it to "basically the same risk we are taking with Kris Middleton" falls completely flat. First, the team was trying to jettison a terrible player in Kuzma that's attitude was beginning to seep into the young team. There was no calculation with Middleton, he was filler, a filler salary that the the Bucks were willing to throw in because they know what everyone else knows about Middleton, and that is that he is cooked, a guy that has played less than half his game over the past 3 seasons, that is even more so on the wrong side of 30 than Brogdon, who has a reputation for being injury prone and is on an expiring $30M contract.

This team is not getting jack diddley squat of value for him, don't kid us.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Alright time to put this to rest, got the kiddos to bed, going to watch this Naomi Osaka US Open match:

January 7th, 2024



February 4th, 2024



February 8th, 2024



February 15th, 2024



I'm not done...

PIF you conveniently ignored this last week when you said produce post of my bullishness on Deni, I even say bullish in on of the posts , so I want to just give it a nice bump.

Not only had I missed it "last week" back then, but I even missed this repeat posting! Goes to show I'm not as smart as I you think I am!

I stick with "convenient". Come one, sit down, and take the L.

[penbeast0]

First 5 pages of this thread:

the hell? Brogdon? For what? They were trying to get Brogdon in the Zingus trade and he didn't pass the physical or whatever. What is so damned good about Brogdon. This can't be it.

...

What can they spin Brogdon for or will they keep him until after December of perhaps the trade deadline

... I'm sure you'll get more assets after you trade Brogdon at the deadline. Let this new regime cook before judging as hard as that might sound at the moment.

... Malcolm is good and may bring in picks later. Also, if the Wizards get Edey at 14, I am going to love this trade.

So, couple of reasonably positive comments, most don't even mention him, and almost everyone saying the #14 pick was the main asset except for a couple who talked about the 2029 pick. 5 page in (not going through all 92!) and no one said we got a haul or that Brogdon was a huge asset.

[The Consiglieri]

Just wanted to comment on this.

1. We have the 8th hardest schedule, Patriots have the 30th hardest.
2. Diggs is better than Terry, and we are injured as all hell right now. No weapons.
3. Maye has 12 TD's 2 ints in 7 games. JD has 8 TD's, 1 int through 5 games.

It's reasonable to be concerned about injuries, and that's worth keeping an eye on for sure, but it's wayyyy to early to act like JD was a miss.

[/quote]

The latter point is what Im really worried about. He's got a thin, whispy frame, and is not well built for the NFL. The rest of it I'm far less worried about and don't see the paranoid RGIII trap door some fans are starting to scream about. There's a ton of evidence that Daniels and Maye both are first in and last out types, fabulous workers, with great personalities (interestingly Daniels was supposedly more introverted, but he's seemed fine socially) as leaders, and have the tool kit as a modern passer to succeed in this game. My chief concern is health, and age.

But in terms of your other takes I somewhat disagree.

1.) This is true, but I don't think Daniels was better last year because of schedule difficulty, he beat the freaking Eagles AND Lions after all. I don't think that's materially important to either of them.

2. Diggs isn't better than Terry, he's just healthy right now. He hit the age Apex for WR's back in 2020 and is now well, well past it. His prime was '18-'22, he can still get the job done when healthy, but now he struggles to stay healthy and isn't as productive, efficient or explosive as he was in his prime, he'll be 32 next month and it shows. Secondarily, the Patriots have neither depth nor talent at WR throughout his time there, they did bring in Diggs, this year, which is basically his McLaurin and that helps. But their OL is meh, their running game is even worse than ours, their TE group is blah. It just sucks, and they didn't have great minds running anything in '24, maybe its better now.

3. According to the 14 efficiency metrics player profiler uses, Maye is top 10 in 13 of 14, top 5 in 7 of those 13 he's in the top 10 in and in 4 of 14, he's top 3. With Daniels it's 3 in the top 10 out of 14 categories with only 1 in the top 5. Last year Daniels ranked in the top 10 in 7 of 14 categories, and ranked top 5 in 6 of 7, compared to just 1 this year.

That's basically the key. If you trust PFF more, PFF gave him an 89.6 last year, and give him a 76.5 this year, pretty obvious slippage. Maye's actually down from a 90 last year with them to an 87 this year (as shocking as that may sound, there were multiple tape grinding analytics mix types still had Maye ahead of Daniels even after Daniels record breaking season last year).

Right now, who knows who finishes best, but I think the smart bet is on Maye simply because both are clearly quite good when healthy, and Maye is 2 years younger and has a better chance of staying healthy at least frame wise (the one concern is with concussions, I don't think Daniels has had any (has he?), whereas I'm fairly certain Maye has had at least one).

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

First 5 pages of this thread:

the hell? Brogdon? For what? They were trying to get Brogdon in the Zingus trade and he didn't pass the physical or whatever. What is so damned good about Brogdon. This can't be it.

...

What can they spin Brogdon for or will they keep him until after December of perhaps the trade deadline

... I'm sure you'll get more assets after you trade Brogdon at the deadline. Let this new regime cook before judging as hard as that might sound at the moment.

... Malcolm is good and may bring in picks later. Also, if the Wizards get Edey at 14, I am going to love this trade.

So, couple of reasonably positive comments, most don't even mention him, and almost everyone saying the #14 pick was the main asset except for a couple who talked about the 2029 pick. 5 page in (not going through all 92!) and no one said we got a haul or that Brogdon was a huge asset.

Well when you use the first 5 pages of the thread as your sample, sure you aren't going to find a whole lot because the first 10 or so pages of the thread are the hours after the trade but they are in there I promise you.

Brogdon isn't netting a first rounder, you are delusional.

Why not? He's expiring money and a good player when healthy.

That 2029 pick is complete unknown

Ok? That's how trade packages work. You don't get 3 FRP's back to back to back.

and the one tangible asset we have is a pick in one of the worst drafts in years

And Brogdon, and a 2029 first.

Even at his current level of production going forward there would have been a ton of contenders we could have maybe gotten a much more tangible haul from.

LMAOOO. Yeah contenders were really lining up to throw 5 FRP's for a guy who averages 14.7 ppg on a terrible team.

I don't have the time to look through all of the thread either, but there was definitely a cohort propping up Brogdon to make the trade seem better than it was.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

First 5 pages of this thread:

the hell? Brogdon? For what? They were trying to get Brogdon in the Zingus trade and he didn't pass the physical or whatever. What is so damned good about Brogdon. This can't be it.

...

What can they spin Brogdon for or will they keep him until after December of perhaps the trade deadline

... I'm sure you'll get more assets after you trade Brogdon at the deadline. Let this new regime cook before judging as hard as that might sound at the moment.

... Malcolm is good and may bring in picks later. Also, if the Wizards get Edey at 14, I am going to love this trade.

So, couple of reasonably positive comments, most don't even mention him, and almost everyone saying the #14 pick was the main asset except for a couple who talked about the 2029 pick. 5 page in (not going through all 92!) and no one said we got a haul or that Brogdon was a huge asset.

Well when you use the first 5 pages of the thread as your sample, sure you aren't going to find a whole lot because the first 10 or so pages of the thread are the hours after the trade but they are in there I promise you.

This is one example...

Brogdon isn't netting a first rounder, you are delusional.

Why not? He's expiring money and a good player when healthy.

That 2029 pick is complete unknown

Ok? That's how trade packages work. You don't get 3 FRP's back to back to back.

and the one tangible asset we have is a pick in one of the worst drafts in years

And Brogdon, and a 2029 first.

Even at his current level of production going forward there would have been a ton of contenders we could have maybe gotten a much more tangible haul from.

LMAOOO. Yeah contenders were really lining up to throw 5 FRP's for a guy who averages 14.7 ppg on a terrible team.

I don't have the time to look through all of the thread either, but there was definitely a cohort propping up Brogdon to make the trade seem better than it was.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

First 5 pages of this thread:

the hell? Brogdon? For what? They were trying to get Brogdon in the Zingus trade and he didn't pass the physical or whatever. What is so damned good about Brogdon. This can't be it.

...

What can they spin Brogdon for or will they keep him until after December of perhaps the trade deadline

... I'm sure you'll get more assets after you trade Brogdon at the deadline. Let this new regime cook before judging as hard as that might sound at the moment.

... Malcolm is good and may bring in picks later. Also, if the Wizards get Edey at 14, I am going to love this trade.

So, couple of reasonably positive comments, most don't even mention him, and almost everyone saying the #14 pick was the main asset except for a couple who talked about the 2029 pick. 5 page in (not going through all 92!) and no one said we got a haul or that Brogdon was a huge asset.

Well when you use the first 5 pages of the thread as your sample, sure you aren't going to find a whole lot because the first 10 or so pages of the thread are the hours after the trade and hot take but there are plenty examples in there I promise you.

This is one example...

Brogdon isn't netting a first rounder, you are delusional.

Why not? He's expiring money and a good player when healthy.

That 2029 pick is complete unknown

Ok? That's how trade packages work. You don't get 3 FRP's back to back to back.

and the one tangible asset we have is a pick in one of the worst drafts in years

And Brogdon, and a 2029 first.

Even at his current level of production going forward there would have been a ton of contenders we could have maybe gotten a much more tangible haul from.

LMAOOO. Yeah contenders were really lining up to throw 5 FRP's for a guy who averages 14.7 ppg on a terrible team.

I don't have the time to look through all of the thread either, but there was definitely a cohort propping up Brogdon to make the trade seem better than it was.

[trast66]

This guy called it. Though Chauncey up for running rigged poker games and not betting on games at this point.

Read on Twitter

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

This guy called it. Though Chauncey up for running rigged poker games and not betting on games at this point.

Read on Twitter

I remember that game. It felt inexplicable because Deni had been playing really well.

[Dark Faze]

Yeaaaa it's pretty clear he's averaging 20+ this year, as a two way player. And he's going to making 11 million effing dollars in 2027-2028 lmao. Would be very surprised if there's a better contract out there. If the Blazers were to trade him today, they could trade him to pretty much any team, even 2nd apron teams, because there's no way they don't have enough bum roleplayers to salary match. They would easily give up multiple firsts and swaps.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Yeaaaa it's pretty clear he's averaging 20+ this year, as a two way player. And he's going to making 11 million effing dollars in 2027-2028 lmao. Would be very surprised if there's a better contract out there. If the Blazers were to trade him today, they could trade him to pretty much any team, even 2nd apron teams, because there's no way they don't have enough bum roleplayers to salary match. They would easily give up multiple firsts and swaps.

Yeah, he pretty effortlessly dropped 26 on GS last night (who apparently after the Butler acquisition has sported the best defense in the league) in less than 30 minutes while shooting 0 free throws.

Another thing, Camara gets the a ton of praise by the Portland fan base for his defense, and he's good, he deserves it, but you barely hear a peep about Avdija's defense. He won't get a ton of flashy blocks and steals, but he is indispensable on that end, and allows Portland to be as aggressive as they are on defense. You can switch him on any player, routinely guards all 5 positions in a game, fluidly moves from guarding a host of different positions from possession to possession, always contests, just a lot of under the radar stuff on that end. Even when players make shots on him, they are rarely not earned and often high degrees of difficulty.

[payitforward]

Ho hum... this thread is soooo boring....

Then again, come to think of it, at least we get to read about how right CntOutSmrtCrazy was, is, &, no doubt, always will be.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Watch on YouTube

Was dancing on both Butler and Green for threes.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Ho hum... this thread is soooo boring....

Then again, come to think of it, at least we get to read about how right CntOutSmrtCrazy was, is, &, no doubt, always will be.

I love being on my high horse watching you continue to take the giant L on this PIF and giving us the daily reminder of your L. I truly relish the idea of hearing your latest and greatest, and always novel excuses, to why this was a great and needed trade.

One win against a bad Dallas team that's trying to play a rookie PF at PG doesn't suddenly change the calculus on this. That said, Kyshawn and Avdija would have been sick next to each other.

[payitforward]

...Even at his current level of production going forward there would have been a ton of contenders we could have maybe gotten a much more tangible haul from....

Aaahh! You are so very smart -- incomparable really -- that you know better than Will Dawkins (who's he, after all?) what we could have gotten for Deni -- & therefore, presumably, what we (or anyone) could get for any other player -- along with what we, or anyone, would have to give in order to acquire any player in the league.

Too bad Will wasn't working for you, huh? You could have explained to him that he shouldn't take the very first offer for Deni but should check among the "ton of contenders" who would have been willing to give us "much more" for Deni.

Wow, CntOutSmrtCrazy, your knowledge is really impressive -- truly one of a kind. We sure are lucky to have you here to instruct us all. Please feel free to continue repeating the same insights w/ which you've favored us through the 90 plus pages of this thread. Obviously we aren't any of us smart enough to follow your clever thinking....

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

...Even at his current level of production going forward there would have been a ton of contenders we could have maybe gotten a much more tangible haul from....

Aaahh! You are so very smart -- incomparable really -- that you know better than Will Dawkins (who's he, after all?) what we could have gotten for Deni -- & therefore, presumably, what we (or anyone) could get for any other player -- along with what we, or anyone, would have to give in order to acquire any player in the league.

Wow, CntOutSmrtCrazy, your knowledge is really impressive -- truly one of a kind. We sure are lucky to have you here to instruct us all.

Because all GMs never do anything stupid AND that's why they never get fired, or criticized by the media, and get booed at games, etc. Just insanely dumb logic you keep trying to push that a GM's logic is above reproach and I can't, or anyone on this board for that matter, can't say so without you insinuating they are a know it all.

More cope is your only hope.