Political Roundtable Part XXIV

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

McConnell is just a vile human being. If there was ever a person to wish ill on, it's guys like him that manipulate, connive and corrupt everything around them.

Despicable, what kind of society do we live in where people can just lie, lie and lie and have a good portion of the constituents not so much as raise an eyebrow?

No decency, no moral fiber, just disgusting through and through, a proper villain.

He's on my Arya Stark list of names I repeat to myself before I fall asleep each night.

Trump
Don Jr.
Kavanaugh
Nunes
McConnell
Graham
Gym Jordan ('cause I'm from Ohio)

What about Jared?!

I take requests...

[Zonkerbl]

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Woodward notes this in "Fear" also

[montestewart]

Hey friends, sorry, I've been quite busy with my job and other outside commitments. I understand the STD issue, but on the other hand(s), I also see some people not using the block function, repeatedly taking bait, and offering up satisfaction. I have tried to be much better about only occasionally quoting to make points, and we should all try to do the same if it bothers us.

I'll also add that the Current Affairs board, with I believe 10 mods (very good ones too), is well curated and much more closely patrolled. If the run amok nature of this thread is driving you crazy, stick to the Wizards basketball threads and go to the CA board for calmer political discussions.

I was against banning hands for the same reason I am against banning STD, because I like free speech, not just agreeable free speech, mature free speech, well-reasoned free speech, or comprehensible free speech. I also like artistic freedom of expression (no matter ow much my wife hates "performance" artists, I've always loved them no matter how awful they are). I'm not saying hands and STD are the same, because hands at least was a die hard wizards fan.

Regarding me and Nate, I don't know him personally. I don't agree with him on most political issues, but I find him to generally present his views civilly and in a way that contributes to discourse. The only members of this board I've ever met are CCJ, dobrojim, Nivek, and fishercob, all great guys that I am happy to have met. The latter two don't come around here anymore, and some of the speech in this thread may have a lot to do with it. I miss them, as the board does, but I understand that choice.

MAGA has had steady 35-42% support in this country. It would seem odd to have an ongoing conversation about contemporary U.S. politics without having at our disposal a constant reminder of the voluminous insipid drivel behind much of that support. When I talk with conservative friends, I like the fact that I am better versed in their talking points than they are, while they imagine my talking points to be "taxpayer subsidized heroin for 12-year-old prostitute illegals" or similar nonsense.

Anyone who thinks I just ignore this issue is wrong. Defending (frequently obnoxious) speech you don't agree with is not easy, and this thread takes more of my increasingly limited time than all others combined. These days I usually only have time to check the box score and haven't watched even part of a game in weeks. I'm not complaining, but I'm also not doing as I do for Nate or STD. It's what seems right to me.

[Zonkerbl]

I dunno, there's something about this board that feels like I'm having a beer at the local bar with old high school friends. That's why when one guy is spoiling the experience for everybody I take it personally. Read the room man.

Everybody has the obnoxious white privileged Georgetown Prep guy like Nate - put enough beers in him and he's ok, eventually. Urine smelling crazy guy babbling about how he hates and wants to fight everybody? Bounce that guy.

This board isn't run by the government and there's no requirement to guarantee free speech here. We're here to generate ad revenue for the owners of realgm and allowing obnoxious POSs to ruin things for everyone else is not a profit-generating strategy.

[closg00]

Anyone else feel like clawing their eyes out when they listen to Mika? I think I have to skip any clips coming out of Morning Joe all together.

[gtn130]

MAGA has had steady 35-42% support in this country. It would seem odd to have an ongoing conversation about contemporary U.S. politics without having at our disposal a constant reminder of the voluminous insipid drivel behind much of that support. When I talk with conservative friends, I like the fact that I am better versed in their talking points than they are, while they imagine my talking points to be "taxpayer subsidized heroin for 12-year-old prostitute illegals" or similar nonsense.

Anyone who thinks I just ignore this issue is wrong. Defending (frequently obnoxious) speech you don't agree with is not easy, and this thread takes more of my increasingly limited time than all others combined. These days I usually only have time to check the box score and haven't watched even part of a game in weeks. I'm not complaining, but I'm also not doing as I do for Nate or STD. It's what seems right to me.

Appreciate the thoughtful response, but I think the framing of this is wrong.

SD20 is never actually arguing in good faith. He's often just spamming or trolling or on posting crusades to own the libs. The fact that many in the MAGAverse are kind of like him doesn't mean we need to welcome his totally invalid and fact-free 'viewpoint'. Nazis also once existed in large number. Not all ideas are inherently good or deserving of recognition, and some are actually bad or evil or so far removed from reality that they shouldn't be recognized.

You'll notice people aren't clamoring for Nate to be banned from the thread even though many find that his views are unacceptable and unwelcome in polite society. For one, he barely posts, but when he does post he appears to be trying to seriously engage and prove his point with actual facts. Arguing in bad faith should be an infraction-worthy offense.

It's also worth pointing out that SD20's sock puppet account Ghost of Chenier tried pretty hard to dox the thread (mostly just me) a few months ago, and that was basically ignored by mods. The idea that SD20 is accepted here because 35+% of the country supports Trump totally elides the fact that SD20's behavior outside of politics is totally unacceptable in any internet community.

[Zonkerbl]

[Zonkerbl]

MAGA has had steady 35-42% support in this country. It would seem odd to have an ongoing conversation about contemporary U.S. politics without having at our disposal a constant reminder of the voluminous insipid drivel behind much of that support. When I talk with conservative friends, I like the fact that I am better versed in their talking points than they are, while they imagine my talking points to be "taxpayer subsidized heroin for 12-year-old prostitute illegals" or similar nonsense.

Anyone who thinks I just ignore this issue is wrong. Defending (frequently obnoxious) speech you don't agree with is not easy, and this thread takes more of my increasingly limited time than all others combined. These days I usually only have time to check the box score and haven't watched even part of a game in weeks. I'm not complaining, but I'm also not doing as I do for Nate or STD. It's what seems right to me.

Appreciate the thoughtful response, but I think the framing of this is wrong.

SD20 is never actually arguing in good faith. He's often just spamming or trolling or on posting crusades to own the libs. The fact that many in the MAGAverse are kind of like him doesn't mean we need to welcome his totally invalid and fact-free 'viewpoint'. Nazis also once existed in large number. Not all ideas are inherently good or deserving of recognition, and some are actually bad or evil or so far removed from reality that they shouldn't be recognized.

You'll notice people aren't clamoring for Nate to be banned from the thread even though many find that his views are unacceptable and unwelcome in polite society. For one, he barely posts, but when he does post he appears to be trying to seriously engage and prove his point with actual facts. Arguing in bad faith should be an infraction-worthy offense.

It's also worth pointing out that SD20's sock puppet account Ghost of Chenier tried pretty hard to dox the thread (mostly just me) a few months ago, and that was basically ignored by mods. The idea that SD20 is accepted here because 35+% of the country supports Trump totally elides the fact that SD20's behavior outside of politics is totally unacceptable in any internet community.

Ghost of Chenier legit speaks fluent Russian. SD20 is of course a super genius and has had sex - with women! - but he doesn't seem like a Russian speaker to me.

[Wizardspride]

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[nate33]

Hey friends, sorry, I've been quite busy with my job and other outside commitments. I understand the STD issue, but on the other hand(s), I also see some people not using the block function, repeatedly taking bait, and offering up satisfaction. I have tried to be much better about only occasionally quoting to make points, and we should all try to do the same if it bothers us.

I'll also add that the Current Affairs board, with I believe 10 mods (very good ones too), is well curated and much more closely patrolled. If the run amok nature of this thread is driving you crazy, stick to the Wizards basketball threads and go to the CA board for calmer political discussions.

I was against banning hands for the same reason I am against banning STD, because I like free speech, not just agreeable free speech, mature free speech, well-reasoned free speech, or comprehensible free speech. I also like artistic freedom of expression (no matter ow much my wife hates "performance" artists, I've always loved them no matter how awful they are). I'm not saying hands and STD are the same, because hands at least was a die hard wizards fan.

Regarding me and Nate, I don't know him personally. I don't agree with him on most political issues, but I find him to generally present his views civilly and in a way that contributes to discourse. The only members of this board I've ever met are CCJ, dobrojim, Nivek, and fishercob, all great guys that I am happy to have met. The latter two don't come around here anymore, and some of the speech in this thread may have a lot to do with it. I miss them, as the board does, but I understand that choice.

MAGA has had steady 35-42% support in this country. It would seem odd to have an ongoing conversation about contemporary U.S. politics without having at our disposal a constant reminder of the voluminous insipid drivel behind much of that support. When I talk with conservative friends, I like the fact that I am better versed in their talking points than they are, while they imagine my talking points to be "taxpayer subsidized heroin for 12-year-old prostitute illegals" or similar nonsense.

Anyone who thinks I just ignore this issue is wrong. Defending (frequently obnoxious) speech you don't agree with is not easy, and this thread takes more of my increasingly limited time than all others combined. These days I usually only have time to check the box score and haven't watched even part of a game in weeks. I'm not complaining, but I'm also not doing as I do for Nate or STD. It's what seems right to me.

montestewart just asked the other mods our position on banning SD20. I decided to check in on this thread for the first time in months to see what was going on.

First, I'd like to apologize for not being around to moderate this thread. As you know, I'm a political partisan and I disagree with most of you politically. Every time I come here, I get drawn into nasty debates that puts me in an awkward position when I have to put on my moderator hat. I feel that the dynamic makes me a less effective moderator elsewhere on the board as well because people think I'm playing favorites because of my politics, so I decided to stop coming to this board altogether. I've found that my interactions with posters on other threads has been much more pleasant ever since.

I skimmed the last few pages and I've seen some of SD20's recent screeds. He does throw around insults from time to time, and that is in violation of the TOS here. But there are several of you who hurl insults back, and I don't think it's accurate to say that SD20 always starts it.

SD is also guilty of spamming the board with extremely frequent, long and tedious posts. Hands11 used to do that and it was one of the things that resulted in him being banned. After he was banned, there was a substantial backlash where people felt that he shouldn't have been banned. I'd prefer to avoid that here.

Clearly, with the exception of myself and occasionally popper, SD20 is the only right-leaning person who bothers to take the time to post here anymore. If he's gone, you will be left with an echo chamber of like-minded thought. Maybe that's what you want. It makes for a peaceful board, but not one in which your preconceptions will be challenged very often.

I'm curious what the consensus is regarding SD20. How many people actually want him banned? Please PM me a short note if you'd like him banned. You don't have to explain yourself, I'm just looking for a headcount. I think it would be useful information for the other mods and I to have when we discuss whether or not to ban him.

[Doug_Blew]

I've been waiting for SD20 to get tired of posting. I have no idea how he keeps interested in writing so much on a Wizards board with limited readers. Surely there would be a better place to focus his energy.

I didn't think Hands should of been banned and I don't think SD20 should be banned. I suggest we keep waiting for him to get tired of typing on this site.

[daSwami]

I've lurked (and have occasionally contributed to) this thread since Part I (17 years?), and have found it to be the most well-informed and civilized politics forums I have seen. I blocked SD years ago because he/she is an egregious troll (by almost anyone's standards). fwiw I never viewed Hands11 as a troll. In fact, I do sort of miss the guy. I have never missed SD20.

If it's in fact true that the this thread played a role in driving both Fish and Kev from this forum, then maybe this thread has out-lived its purpose.

[JWizmentality]

I've lurked (and have occasionally contributed to) this thread since Part I (17 years?), and have found it to be the most well-informed and civilized politics forums I have seen. I blocked SD years ago because he/she is an egregious troll (by almost anyone's standards). fwiw I never viewed Hands11 as a troll. In fact, I do sort of miss the guy. I have never missed SD20.

If it's in fact true that the this thread played a role in driving both Fish and Kev from this forum, then maybe this thread has out-lived its purpose.

Here Here. Leave politics to the CA board. Maybe time to end this thread. Win win for everyone.

I thought hands was banned for multiple accounts or something. If that is the reason why, then yeah that ban wasn't justified. SD20 is a whole other apple cart. He's a troll. Nothing more, maybe quite a bit less.

[doclinkin]

Hey friends, sorry, I've been quite busy with my job and other outside commitments. I understand the STD issue, but on the other hand(s), I also see some people not using the block function, repeatedly taking bait, and offering up satisfaction. I have tried to be much better about only occasionally quoting to make points, and we should all try to do the same if it bothers us.

I'll also add that the Current Affairs board, with I believe 10 mods (very good ones too), is well curated and much more closely patrolled. If the run amok nature of this thread is driving you crazy, stick to the Wizards basketball threads and go to the CA board for calmer political discussions.

I was against banning hands for the same reason I am against banning STD, because I like free speech, not just agreeable free speech, mature free speech, well-reasoned free speech, or comprehensible free speech. I also like artistic freedom of expression (no matter ow much my wife hates "performance" artists, I've always loved them no matter how awful they are). I'm not saying hands and STD are the same, because hands at least was a die hard wizards fan.

Regarding me and Nate, I don't know him personally. I don't agree with him on most political issues, but I find him to generally present his views civilly and in a way that contributes to discourse. The only members of this board I've ever met are CCJ, dobrojim, Nivek, and fishercob, all great guys that I am happy to have met. The latter two don't come around here anymore, and some of the speech in this thread may have a lot to do with it. I miss them, as the board does, but I understand that choice.

MAGA has had steady 35-42% support in this country. It would seem odd to have an ongoing conversation about contemporary U.S. politics without having at our disposal a constant reminder of the voluminous insipid drivel behind much of that support. When I talk with conservative friends, I like the fact that I am better versed in their talking points than they are, while they imagine my talking points to be "taxpayer subsidized heroin for 12-year-old prostitute illegals" or similar nonsense.

Anyone who thinks I just ignore this issue is wrong. Defending (frequently obnoxious) speech you don't agree with is not easy, and this thread takes more of my increasingly limited time than all others combined. These days I usually only have time to check the box score and haven't watched even part of a game in weeks. I'm not complaining, but I'm also not doing as I do for Nate or STD. It's what seems right to me.

In general I 100% agree with this post and sentiment.

I will say however that when one poster begins to drown out other voices then as a community we lose. We did lose fish and Kev in part due to this thread. According to them. Nate no longer posts in this thread, in part because it has devolved into insults more than ideas. That's on both sides, but the tone is driven by the posters whom most often dump their leavings in this thread. It's easy to see who that is. And at some point there becomes a clamor to clean up the act. My warning to SD20 was a friendly heads up that the welcome mat will surely get rolled up if the antics in this thread cause us to lose more posters -- until even the most level headed and reasonable mod can see there's no utility left in it. If one person takes up all the airspace, then there's no conversation at all any more. So. Like I said, I like having contrarian views. I refuse to think the ignore button helps anything. But I don't like the board being regularly spammed by clusterposting and a string of memes and videos. Or volleys of insults between posters with no facts links or information. Especially when those posters occasionally do have thought provoking or interesting thoughts and viewpoints that stimulate debate, even if they challenge or piss people off. Or make you laugh. Either at them or with them. It's just lazy. The majority of the board would disagree with me when I say STD can be better than that. But I say he can. Come on, nobody else thought the wall of containers was funny? I loved that one. Made me snort.

[Ruzious]

I'm not sure how we can have any worthwhile discussions without respect, and I don't think there's any real respect from him or for him. And that's not gonna change - we're all what we are by now. If people really think this will just be an echo chamber without him... don't ban him, ban the thread. But it's hard for me to believe that this thread has only had value because he's been different than anyone else. That's an awfully sad commentary that says this thread lost any usefullness a long time ago.

[pancakes3]

i'm sure there will not be a lack of political disagreements even if we lose a common enemy to hurl insults towards.

like i'm sure there are differing opinions on this:

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[JWizmentality]

I'm not sure how we can have any worthwhile discussions without respect, and I don't think there's any real respect from him or for him. And that's not gonna change - we're all what we are by now. If people really think this will just be an echo chamber without him... don't ban him, ban the thread. But it's hard for me to believe that this thread has only had value because he's been different than anyone else. That's an awfully sad commentary that says this thread lost any usefullness a long time ago.

Just a small microcosm of the country now. Guess you can thank "Christians" for that.

My final partisan shot before this thread bites it.

Gentlemen, it's been an honor.

[dobrojim]

I would encourage people, more people that is, to make use of the ignore button (as per Monte).

I also like what Ruz said about respect.

And I always enjoy Doc's posts which are consistently thoughtful and educational.
Many of the rest of you are as well.

I think the folks that want him banned should use ignore for a while and see how that
works. Having said that, I did recently ponder whether one particular screed violated the TOS
but I don't remember saying the result should be a banning.

[Ruzious]

I would encourage people, more people that is, to make use of the ignore button (as per Monte).

I also like what Ruz said about respect.

And I always enjoy Doc's posts which are consistently thoughtful and educational.
Many of the rest of you are as well.

I think the folks that want him banned should use ignore for a while and see how that
works. Having said that, I did recently ponder whether one particular screed violated the TOS
but I don't remember saying the result should be a banning.

Yeah, I agree with just using Ignore, and if you don't use ignore, do NOT quote him - which I've been guilty of doing.