Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[nate33]

Kings fan here how is Kuzma defense

It was pretty solid his first season here, but has gotten worse in each of the last two seasons as he has taken on more usage and spent more energy on offense. Right now, I'd characterize his defense as "bad". I think he is still capable of being a plus defender, but not while simultaneously maintaining a 25%+ usage.

[tontoz]

Kings fan here how is Kuzma defense

He can play good D when he wants to, which hasn't been often lately. It is understandable playing on a rebuilding team.

[payitforward]

Spit balling a bit, this is a trade proposal I'd consider a good offer for Kuzma at the trade deadline:

WAS gets Jarace Walker, IND 1st 2024 (#19 right now), DEN 1st 2025, fodder from Orlando (e.g. Gary Harris) to make salaries match.
IND gets Kuzma
ORL gets Hield...

Well... ummmh... yeah.
You've got us acquiring the guy that went #8 6 months ago, the #19 pick (presumably) in 2024, & a R1 pick in 2025 -- all for Kyle Kuzma.

Hard to believe that anyone would over-rate Kuz to that degree.

I'm pretty sure that Indy would not be willing to give us Jarace Walker alone for Kuzma.

[nate33]

I wonder if OKC would consider trading Giddey for Kuzma?

The logic here is that with the development of Wallace as another good guard, they are less in need of Giddey's ball handling and might prefer to trade him for a guy with more size, scoring and defense (assuming here that Kuzma could play better D if his offensive role was more limited). The other issue is that Kuzma is locked into a long term descending contract which fits nice with OKC's long term needs as they eventually will have to pay Williams and Holmgren.

Giddey has had a rough season so far, but he has played much better over the last 10 games or so.

[Kanyewest]

I wonder if OKC would consider trading Giddey for Kuzma?

The logic here is that with the development of Wallace as another good guard, they are less in need of Giddey's ball handling and might prefer to trade him for a guy with more size, scoring and defense (assuming here that Kuzma could play better D if his offensive role was more limited). The other issue is that Kuzma is locked into a long term descending contract which fits nice with OKC's long term needs as they eventually will have to pay Williams and Holmgren.

Giddey has had a rough season so far, but he has played much better over the last 10 games or so.

Giddey's last 10, he's averaging 13/7/5 on 57/47/91 splits in 24 minutes per game

[NatP4]

23-8-6 tonight against Boston. Just turned 21 in October.

I don’t think OKC would be interested in moving Giddey. Outside of a rough start to the year, he’s developing into one of the best young players in the league.

[nate33]

23-8-6 tonight against Boston. Just turned 21 in October.

I don’t think OKC would be interested in moving Giddey. Outside of a rough start to the year, he’s developing into one of the best young players in the league.

With Chet likely to earn a Designated Player contract by 2026 when his rookie deal is up, he'll be due to make a supermax contract worth 30% of the cap. Likewise, Williams is also going to get an ordinary 5th year player max deal at 25% of the cap. SGA will be earning 23.7% of the cap that year on his final season, and then in 2027, he'll get a full supermax worth 35% of the cap.

So that'll be $43M for Williams, $51M for Chet and $41M for SGA in 2026-27.
And in 27-28, it'll be $46M for Williams, $55M for Chet and $66M for SGA.

We know OKC blew that team up just because they couldn't pay a Big Three of Westbrook, Durant and Harden. I don't see them paying a Big 4 of SGA, Chet, Williams and Giddey.

I'm not saying Kuz for Giddey is fair in the abstract, but I do think Giddey is going to have to be moved at some point. And Kuzma happens to be the type of player they could really use, on the type of contract that makes a lot of sense for them.

[Kanyewest]

23-8-6 tonight against Boston. Just turned 21 in October.

I don’t think OKC would be interested in moving Giddey. Outside of a rough start to the year, he’s developing into one of the best young players in the league.

With Chet likely to earn a Designated Player contract by 2026 when his rookie deal is up, he'll be due to make a supermax contract worth 30% of the cap. Likewise, Williams is also going to get an ordinary 5th year player max deal at 25% of the cap. SGA will be earning 23.7% of the cap that year on his final season, and then in 2027, he'll get a full supermax worth 35% of the cap.

So that'll be $43M for Williams, $51M for Chet and $41M for SGA in 2026-27.
And in 27-28, it'll be $46M for Williams, $55M for Chet and $66M for SGA.

We know OKC blew that team up just because they couldn't pay a Big Three of Westbrook, Durant and Harden. I don't see them paying a Big 4 of SGA, Chet, Williams and Giddey.

I'm not saying Kuz for Giddey is fair in the abstract, but I do think Giddey is going to have to be moved at some point. And Kuzma happens to be the type of player they could really use, on the type of contract that makes a lot of sense for them.

Not so sure.

The Thunder did pay a lot in luxury tax back in 2018.

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Also I think Giddey will command less on the open market.

[tontoz]

I think OKC will only be able to keep two of SGA/Chet/Jalen long term. My guess is that they will have a hard time paying big money for Jalen.

[nate33]

I think OKC will only be able to keep two of SGA/Chet/Jalen long term. My guess is that they will have a hard time paying big money for Jalen.

I think they can keep 3 for while. The key advantage is that Chet and Jalen got good so early that they'll have many prime years while either still on their rookie deal, or on their first max contract which is just 25% for Jalen (and probably 30% for Chet under the Designated Player rule). It's the 35% supermax contract that's really tough to swallow. You can't have more than two of those guys. Chet won't be due for a 35% contract until 2031.

It also helps that their war chest of picks should allow them to continue to find cheap depth. Rather than resign guys like Isaiah Joe and Wiggins, they can replace them by drafting mature college players.

But I don't see how they can afford a 4th guy making big money, when they also have to afford Dort, a few rookie deals, and probably at least one more vet on a mid-sized contract. They don't have any immediate urgency to move off of Giddey, but by next year, he will be in the final year of his contract and the vultures will be circling. I guess if he agrees to an extension that looks something like Kuzma's descending contract, it could work out. But would a 22 year old Giddey sign such a deal? Or does he think he can be a 2nd or 3rd option star on another team?

[payitforward]

...really depends on what GMs tell his agent.

In any case, Kuzma for Giddey is good thinking -- & would be a great move for us for all the obvious long-term reasons. & those very reasons might well make me consider adding a R2 pick for sweetener.

[payitforward]

Hmmm, I wonder whether OKC thinks they have a shot at a title this year or next?

If so, the one place they are clearly weak is at back-up Center.
Would they consider giving up draft capital plus an expiring salary in return for Daniel Gafford?

I know the arguments against Gaff -- but he would only have to play 15-20 minutes for them, & the guy collects a lot of boards (esp. on the offensive end), blocks a ton of shots, & posts a 70.3% TS%. All at an unproblematic salary that's under team control for a while.

Does this make sense?

& if so, what draft capital could we hope to get in return? At least one R1 pick & 1 R2 pick I'd say.

I'm sure they'd want to push Pokusevski on us....

[Silvie Lysandra]

Hmmm, I wonder whether OKC thinks they have a shot at a title this year or next?

If so, the one place they are clearly weak is at back-up Center.
Would they consider giving up draft capital plus an expiring salary in return for Daniel Gafford?

I know the arguments against Gaff -- but he would only have to play 15-20 minutes for them, & the guy collects a lot of boards (esp. on the offensive end), blocks a ton of shots, & posts a 70.3% TS%. All at an unproblematic salary that's under team control for a while.

Does this make sense?

& if so, what draft capital could we hope to get in return? At least one R1 pick & 1 R2 pick I'd say.

I'm sure they'd want to push Pokusevski on us....

How much draft capital would they need to give us to make this balanced?

[nate33]

Hmmm, I wonder whether OKC thinks they have a shot at a title this year or next?

If so, the one place they are clearly weak is at back-up Center.
Would they consider giving up draft capital plus an expiring salary in return for Daniel Gafford?

I know the arguments against Gaff -- but he would only have to play 15-20 minutes for them, & the guy collects a lot of boards (esp. on the offensive end), blocks a ton of shots, & posts a 70.3% TS%. All at an unproblematic salary that's under team control for a while.

Does this make sense?

& if so, what draft capital could we hope to get in return? At least one R1 pick & 1 R2 pick I'd say.

I'm sure they'd want to push Pokusevski on us....

How much draft capital would they need to give us to make this balanced?

I don't see OKC giving up Dort or Isaiah Joe when it is unnecessary. They don't need Wright when Wallace is the same type of player, and I don't think Gallo is mobile enough to fit into what they do.

An OKC trade for Gafford would be much simpler. It would just be Bertans for Gafford plus a small extra contract (probably Gill, though I'd prefer we just give up PBJ). Bertans has $5.25M owed to him next year even if he is cut, so it's kind of a bad deal. OKC would have to include pick incentive not only for Gafford, but for us absorbing Bertans' 2024-25 salary.

How much pick incentive would they need to include? I'd ask for the UTA 2024 pick plus a late FRP from 2025 (MIA or PHI).

[Frichuela]

It seems my trade proposal of Kispert for Aldama is not getting much love from Memphis fans in the RealGM Trade board ...

[Frichuela]

It appears Kuz is quite popular looking at fan voting for the All-Star. Let's hope this love translates into the front office executives of other franchises...

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[Frichuela]

Not sure how reliable this source is…

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[nate33]

Not sure how reliable this source is…

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?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

I'd be surprised. I think the team is pretty happy with Kuzma right now and they know they have to pay somebody to reach the salary minimum. It would have to be a pretty strong offer featuring FRP's in the not-too-distant future, and I just don't see what team would offer that.

I don't really think he is the type of player that OKC wants. Orlando isn't going to invest in a forward. Miami's picks are too far into the future. So are Lakers' picks. Phoenix, Denver, LA Clippers, Cleveland, Minnesota and Milwaukee have no picks to trade. Dallas only has 1 pick to trade. NY is keeping their powder dry for a bigger star (Towns or Mitchell).

The only team I see that might have both the interest and the assets is Indiana.

[mhd]

Not sure how reliable this source is…

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I'd be surprised. I think the team is pretty happy with Kuzma right now and they know they have to pay somebody to reach the salary minimum. It would have to be a pretty strong offer featuring FRP's in the not-too-distant future, and I just don't see what team would offer that.

I don't really think he is the type of player that OKC wants. Orlando isn't going to invest in a forward. Miami's picks are too far into the future. So are Lakers' picks. Phoenix, Denver, LA Clippers, Cleveland, Minnesota and Milwaukee have no picks to trade. Dallas only has 1 pick to trade. NY is keeping their powder dry for a bigger star (Towns or Mitchell).

The only team I see that might have both the interest and the assets is Indiana.

We probably want picks, but would Detroit do Harris (expiring)+Ivey for Kuzma? They can't be tank forever. Kuzma is on a good contract and would fit in well next to Cade & Duren. I'm actually not sure I'd do that deal considering Ivey's struggles. I'd rather get the multiple future 1sts.

[Frichuela]

Not sure how reliable this source is…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

I'd be surprised. I think the team is pretty happy with Kuzma right now and they know they have to pay somebody to reach the salary minimum. It would have to be a pretty strong offer featuring FRP's in the not-too-distant future, and I just don't see what team would offer that.

I don't really think he is the type of player that OKC wants. Orlando isn't going to invest in a forward. Miami's picks are too far into the future. So are Lakers' picks. Phoenix, Denver, LA Clippers, Cleveland, Minnesota and Milwaukee have no picks to trade. Dallas only has 1 pick to trade. NY is keeping their powder dry for a bigger star (Towns or Mitchell).

The only team I see that might have both the interest and the assets is Indiana.

Agreed on Indiana. Any trade with them would hinge on their desperate need for a starting caliber PF by the trade deadline.

If I was the WIZ FO I would consider an offer that would net us Jarace Walker + a first round pick (particularly Indiana's 2024 1st). Jarace has not played much in the NBA but his college and G league numbers are pretty solid. Not sure why Indiana is playing Toppin so much over him. It could all be just desperation for playoff contention over spending minutes developing their 8th pick in the last draft.