Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[milellie111]

Can't believe you are blaming Grunfeld for losing the series
Honestly tell me that Cleavland would be where they are without Lebron. Golden State without Curry. Houston without Harden. Wall is the nucleus and engine of this team, just like the guys I mentioned above is the same for their respective teams.

Tell me in my quote where I specifically said EG is the reason we lost to ATL?

And since you bring up the others....Wall is awesome, and will root for him to the end, but he isn't as good as those 3....yet

They are all that important. It has nothing to do with the GM and a teams lack of depth. You can have all of the depth you want, but no amount of depth is going to make up for the loss of a star as impactful as Wall. We aren't just talking about scoring either. The other things that Wall does on the court which means so much to the outcome of games.

Tony Parker was fairly bad for his standards this season. Yet the Spurs were still competitive in the west....They were able to do so because they have the depth to do so. Horford, on ATL might be the only player I'd say is better then Wall, yet they still are able to find decent role players on a bench when he's resting during a game via Muscala and Antic. We really don't have that luxury, we have maybe....6 good players on the roster. Wall, Beal, Porter, Hump, Gortat and Sessions. Can't really count on Pierce being back, and Nene is deteriorating.

The Wizards losing the series to Atlanta had nothing to do with Ernie Grunfeld. We lost because of an injury to John Wall. Would you blame Bird for the Pacers season and not competing for a championship even though they lost George?

I think we lost because Budz figured Randy out. ATL's defense looked much better IMO game 4 onward. I don't think a healthy Wall would have improved Nene's rebounding. A healthy Wall wouldn't have kept Gortat from getting food poisoning. Porter stopped hitting 3s the last two games. Guys came down to earth. Wall did everything he could to keep us close, and I commend him for that, but we need a better roster. Because this team only looks good when we don't go more then 8 people deep...And we don't want Randy to run guys into the ground like thibs. So its on EG to actually build a useful regular season roster.

I quite frankly don't have any confidence in that buffoon's ability to do so.

You definitely implied Grunfeld is the reason the Wizards lost with "A good roster has the depth to withstand injuries".

And your Tony Parker example is moot. John Wall is the best player on the Wizards. Tony Parker is not the best player on the Spurs.

Grunfeld built a roster good enough to compete.

[payitforward]

The Wizards losing the series to Atlanta had nothing to do with Ernie Grunfeld. We lost because of an injury to John Wall. Would you blame Bird for the Pacers season and not competing for a championship even though they lost George?

Agree on this. There is absolutely a discussion to be had about the differing opinions on the longterm direction of the team. But THIS year, in THIS East, THIS roster should be in the ECF. And that's even with the head coach misusing the roster at times. If Wall doesn't miss any games, we're the ones opening up in Cleveland tomorrow night.

An intelligent person like you, LR, knows that counter-factual conditionals have no truth value whatever. Zero. Desire doesn't change that.

Moreover, wasn't it kind of obvious that Milsap was far from at his best for a few games? Do you really think that with both teams at full strength, you can blithely claim the Wizards are the better team? I hope not, as it would be a sign of total non-objectivity.

You can say as well that "we really should have" beaten Indiana last year and been in the ECF then. Etc....

Sorry. The Atlanta Hawks are a better basketball team than the Washington Wizards.

[hands11]

More excuses for Ernie, not like Leonsis wasn't going to extend that turd anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

No GM can control injuries. R.C Buford couldn't with Parker. Kupchak couldnt with Kobe. Presti couldn't with Durant. Grunfeld should be evaluated based on a fully healthy roster. That roster would most likely have us in the Eastern Conference Finals.

I wouldn't say thats 100 percent true. Some players are always getting injured so for them, that would be part of the team assembly. I.E. Somehow Love seems to always be injured.

Wall though. He might have been that way in his early days but the last two years, he has been a warrior. That was a freak unexpected injury so in this case, yes... with Wall, they would have likely beaten ATL and been in the ECF.

And to that.. had Wall not had that stress fracture that got him started in Jan 3 years ago, WIZ probably make the playoff that year as well. But then who know where they would be today. Would they have Otto ? If not, they might have any number of players from CJM, Len, Noel, Burke, MCW, Adams, McLemore, KO, Pope, Giannis Adetokunbo, Schroeder, Nogueira, Shabazz Muhammad, etc.

Side note.. that really was a nice draft. Just a little soft with clear top 5. Always liked that class.

Anyway.. Would the Wizards be Better ? Worse ? Who knows.

Time moves forward. Who know who things would have played out from that far back.

[hands11]

Can't believe you are blaming Grunfeld for losing the series
Honestly tell me that Cleavland would be where they are without Lebron. Golden State without Curry. Houston without Harden. Wall is the nucleus and engine of this team, just like the guys I mentioned above is the same for their respective teams.

Tell me in my quote where I specifically said EG is the reason we lost to ATL?

And since you bring up the others....Wall is awesome, and will root for him to the end, but he isn't as good as those 3....yet

They are all that important. It has nothing to do with the GM and a teams lack of depth. You can have all of the depth you want, but no amount of depth is going to make up for the loss of a star as impactful as Wall. We aren't just talking about scoring either. The other things that Wall does on the court which means so much to the outcome of games.

Tony Parker was fairly bad for his standards this season. Yet the Spurs were still competitive in the west....They were able to do so because they have the depth to do so. Horford, on ATL might be the only player I'd say is better then Wall, yet they still are able to find decent role players on a bench when he's resting during a game via Muscala and Antic. We really don't have that luxury, we have maybe....6 good players on the roster. Wall, Beal, Porter, Hump, Gortat and Sessions. Can't really count on Pierce being back, and Nene is deteriorating.

The Wizards losing the series to Atlanta had nothing to do with Ernie Grunfeld. We lost because of an injury to John Wall. Would you blame Bird for the Pacers season and not competing for a championship even though they lost George?

I think we lost because Budz figured Randy out. ATL's defense looked much better IMO game 4 onward. I don't think a healthy Wall would have improved Nene's rebounding. A healthy Wall wouldn't have kept Gortat from getting food poisoning. Porter stopped hitting 3s the last two games. Guys came down to earth. Wall did everything he could to keep us close, and I commend him for that, but we need a better roster. Because this team only looks good when we don't go more then 8 people deep...And we don't want Randy to run guys into the ground like thibs. So its on EG to actually build a useful regular season roster.

I quite frankly don't have any confidence in that buffoon's ability to do so.

If not for a broken hand and food poisoning. Damn you EG....

If we could only go more then 8 deep in the playoffs.

Does 9 count ? http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400793781

Oh.. we had Hump you know. No one forced Randy to play Nene 30 mins and Hump zero. Kevin happened to step in well in game 6 when he got in there. He isn't on every night but some night, Kevin does well.

The team had depth. Depth was not the problem. First and foremost, it was Wall freak injury. The team was on a roll up until that happen. 5-0 in the playoffs. Then Gortats freak food poisoning. Then Randys rotations. If there was anything to roster construction, it was not having a S4 lock down defender. Having that tends to be a finishing piece. So instead of having that, you stretch them back and see if they can stop your attack. Something we did in game 1. When we had Wall. With Wall, I trust they would have taken their heart out in Game 2 and the series would have been over in 5 or less.

Wizards have another level to go still and lots of that improvement is going to come from players already here. And coaching. And finding longer term S4 solutions...KD.. cough cough..

AH and Gooden to Gooden and Paul to ??

There are tons of FAs out there that would fit here. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12307054/nba-free-agents-2015-2016

We should be able to get some good value.

[DCZards]

If not for a broken hand and food poisoning. Damn you EG....

If we could only go more then 8 deep in the playoffs.

Does 9 count ? http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400793781

Oh.. we had Hump you know. No one forced Randy to play Nene 30 mins and Hump zero. Kevin happened to step in well in game 6 when he got in there. He isn't on every night but some night, Kevin does well.

The team had depth. Depth was not the problem. First and foremost, it was Wall freak injury. The team was on a roll up until that happen. 5-0 in the playoffs. Then Gortats freak food poisoning. Then Randys rotations. If there was anything to roster construction, it was not having a S4 lock down defender. Having that tends to be a finishing piece. So instead of having that, you stretch them back and see if they can stop your attack. Something we did in game 1. When we had Wall. With Wall, I trust they would have taken their heart out in Game 2 and the series would have been over in 5 or less.

Wizards have another level to go still and lots of that improvement is going to come from players already here. And coaching. And finding longer term S4 solutions...KD.. cough cough..

AH and Gooden to Gooden and Paul to ??

The issue wasn't "depth" it was "quality depth." The best player the Zards had coming off the bench during the playoffs was Porter, an inexperienced second year player who's just starting to develop as an NBA player. That's not a good thing. Yes, Sessions, Gooden, and Seraphin had their moments but I wouldn't call them "quality depth."

IMO, Hump was the team's best and most consistent bench player this season, other than Butler who was on fire the first part of the season. Still a little surprised that Hump got no PT in the Hawks series.

[closg00]

If not for a broken hand and food poisoning. Damn you EG....

If we could only go more then 8 deep in the playoffs.

Does 9 count ? http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400793781

Oh.. we had Hump you know. No one forced Randy to play Nene 30 mins and Hump zero. Kevin happened to step in well in game 6 when he got in there. He isn't on every night but some night, Kevin does well.

The team had depth. Depth was not the problem. First and foremost, it was Wall freak injury. The team was on a roll up until that happen. 5-0 in the playoffs. Then Gortats freak food poisoning. Then Randys rotations. If there was anything to roster construction, it was not having a S4 lock down defender. Having that tends to be a finishing piece. So instead of having that, you stretch them back and see if they can stop your attack. Something we did in game 1. When we had Wall. With Wall, I trust they would have taken their heart out in Game 2 and the series would have been over in 5 or less.

Wizards have another level to go still and lots of that improvement is going to come from players already here. And coaching. And finding longer term S4 solutions...KD.. cough cough..

AH and Gooden to Gooden and Paul to ??

The issue wasn't "depth" it was "quality depth." The best player the Zards had coming off the bench during the playoffs was Porter, an inexperienced second year player who's just starting to develop as an NBA player. That's not a good thing. Yes, Sessions, Gooden, and Seraphin had their moments but I wouldn't call them "quality depth."

IMO, Hump was the team's best and most consistent bench player this season, other than Butler who was on fire the first part of the season. Still a little surprised that Hump got no PT in the Hawks series.

Agreed DCZ, well-put. No-need to re-shash who we could have had for depth, the list is long.

Quite frankly, I don't think Ted knows enough about basketball to realize that Ernie should have been fired long-ago. Poor depth/balance has always been an issue during his entire tenure as GM.

[hands11]

If not for a broken hand and food poisoning. Damn you EG....

If we could only go more then 8 deep in the playoffs.

Does 9 count ? http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400793781

Oh.. we had Hump you know. No one forced Randy to play Nene 30 mins and Hump zero. Kevin happened to step in well in game 6 when he got in there. He isn't on every night but some night, Kevin does well.

The team had depth. Depth was not the problem. First and foremost, it was Wall freak injury. The team was on a roll up until that happen. 5-0 in the playoffs. Then Gortats freak food poisoning. Then Randys rotations. If there was anything to roster construction, it was not having a S4 lock down defender. Having that tends to be a finishing piece. So instead of having that, you stretch them back and see if they can stop your attack. Something we did in game 1. When we had Wall. With Wall, I trust they would have taken their heart out in Game 2 and the series would have been over in 5 or less.

Wizards have another level to go still and lots of that improvement is going to come from players already here. And coaching. And finding longer term S4 solutions...KD.. cough cough..

AH and Gooden to Gooden and Paul to ??

The issue wasn't "depth" it was "quality depth." The best player the Zards had coming off the bench during the playoffs was Porter, an inexperienced second year player who's just starting to develop as an NBA player. That's not a good thing. Yes, Sessions, Gooden, and Seraphin had their moments but I wouldn't call them "quality depth."

IMO, Hump was the team's best and most consistent bench player this season, other than Butler who was on fire the first part of the season. Still a little surprised that Hump got no PT in the Hawks series.

Well it was more depth and better depth then the year before and the year before that and the year before that. They will keep building it out. Nothing wrong with their #3 pick stepping it up after a red shirt year. That's what you want. They transitioned from TA to younger TA with handles and a better mid range game on a better contract. That's a good thing. It was reloading process. Take a step back to be able to step forward. Otto is a better fit and will be a better player then TA and sooner.

They can draft two players to help get more energy and athletic for spot duty next year but more the year after. Them being to old was always to lot to do about nothing. Wall, Beal and Otto are not old and the older players were part of a transition and its working and that approach was big part of Wall, Beal and Ottos development.

So go get.

Athletic multiple position long armed defender who can guard up to smaller S4 and who can shoot even average from 3
and
back up PG/SG or SG/PG who can shoot the 3

Both are available to them were they should be picking.

Then sign Gooden. Look at Mirza Teletovic who is a UFA. Specially if you can't resign Gooden.

Kevin is likely gone which is fine. Doesn't sound like Kevin wants to be a back up anymore. Nene will play his center minutes since he will be used less at PF. They should be using Hump (with 3) and Gooden the minutes Nene was getting there. So unless they ship off Nene, there is no room for Kevin. Plus Hump and Gooden can play small ball center.

They can look at new back up centers later if they lose Kevin. Though he was a nice project there if he was willing to stick around on a decent deal. But it only makes sense if Nene is moved.

They would end up overpaying Nene for what he does but that happens. The most expensive person on GSW is David Lee making $15,012,000.

Expensive overlap happens sometimes.

[pineappleheadindc]

.
bump

“During our discussions with Jared [Dudley] and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, we were made aware that he played with pain for a significant part of last season due to this injury,” said Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld. “After jointly consulting with our team doctors and several specialists, we collectively determined that this proactive approach was the best course of action to have him ready for the upcoming season and to prevent the risk of further injury.”

Good job, Ernie. Way to "prove doubters wrong."

[verbal8]

.
bump

“During our discussions with Jared [Dudley] and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, we were made aware that he played with pain for a significant part of last season due to this injury,” said Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld. “After jointly consulting with our team doctors and several specialists, we collectively determined that this proactive approach was the best course of action to have him ready for the upcoming season and to prevent the risk of further injury.”

Good job, Ernie. Way to "prove doubters wrong."

Well I was starting to doubt EG's incompetence.

[montestewart]

.
bump

“During our discussions with Jared [Dudley] and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, we were made aware that he played with pain for a significant part of last season due to this injury,” said Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld. “After jointly consulting with our team doctors and several specialists, we collectively determined that this proactive approach was the best course of action to have him ready for the upcoming season and to prevent the risk of further injury.”

Good job, Ernie. Way to "prove doubters wrong."

The best way to monitor the healing process is to first make sure the patient is totally effed up. Dudley passed that test with flying colors, and thus his recovery is right on schedule. We're right where we are supposed to be according to Terd's 12 Step program. Step One is denying that there is any problem. Step Twelve is, um, championship. There are other steps.

Remember, a doubter never believes, and a believer never doubts.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1742264-ranking-the-worst-washington-wizards-decisions-of-the-ernie-grunfeld-era/page/6

Ranking the Worst Washington Wizards Decisions of the Ernie Grunfeld Era

1. Signing Gilbert Arenas to a Six-Year, $111 Milion Contract

Grunfeld looked past Arenas' plethora of knee injuries to give him a massive six-year, $111 million contract to try to contend for a championship rather than rebuilding.

Back before he rewarded Gilbert I posted again and again ... and again, "DO NOT SIGN HIM". I said even Gil knows he's injured, that's why he opted out. Grunfeld rewarded an injured player who essentially IMO sabotaged Eddie Jordan's best coaching (Antonio Daniels and DeShawn Stevenson led the team to the playoffs without Gil, only to get swept in the playoffs with hurt Gil).

Gilbert Arenas was never the same player. His knee never quite recovered from his first knee surgery, and he was suspended after 32 games of the 2009-2010 season after bringing a gun to the locker room.

The Arenas extension was a move of desperation. The Wizards failed to move past the first round of the playoffs during Arenas' time and instead of moving on, they held on for dear life.

2. Trading for Randy Foye and Mike Miller

Every franchise has a moment in their history where its fans wish you could just hit the re-do button.

This trade has to be that moment for the Washington Wizards.

In 2009, Ernie Grunfeld traded the No. 5 overall pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye. The thought was that the Wizards had a championship contending core in Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler.

That thought was entirely wrong.

That draft was so idiot simple. Steph Curry in round one and Dejuan Blair in round two. Posted that dozens of times before Ernie "Ernied" ...

As for the No. 5 pick, the Wizards blew a chance at getting a great young player. If they kept the pick, they could have had Ricky Rubio, Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson or DeMar DeRozan, who now are all contributing members to their respective NBA teams.

3. Drafting Jan Vesely

Heading into the 2010 NBA draft, the Wizards were in full rebuilding mode when they drafted John Wall with the first overall pick.

The following year, instead of making a safer pick at No. 6, Grunfeld put his faith in Jan Vesely of Czech Republic.

One of many running jokes among Wizard fans concerns Vesley and his defense. For most of the season, he had more fouls than points (he ended with 126 points and 107 fouls).

Vesely also had one of the worst statistical free-throw shooting seasons in NBA history. He made less than 31 percent of his free throws, an embarrassing number for anyone who has ever touched a basketball.

The Wizards could have turned the Vesely pick into Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried, Nikola Vucevic or one of the Morris twins. Imagining John Wall with any of these players is incredibly frusrating for anyoen who has ever followed the Wizards.

You can say that again! 2011 was the worst. Klay Thompson not on the list was obviously a better pick than the worst pick he could have made and did make. I loved Faried but said draft Leonard then Faried (instead of Chris Singleton).

*

Trading for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza

NOTE: This article was written in 2013 -- Ariza eventually paid off nicely. I said this was a wash. The Wizards sent Okafor and a pick for Gortat. SIMPLY ALLOWING LEWIS TO EXPIRE is an unknown that will never be answered. Ariza was behind Webster a season. If you REALLY LOOK AT WHAT EG DID it comes back okay here ... no more than that, however...

5. Extending Andray Blatche

Blatche is one of those players who could give you a 20-point, 10-rebound night, then follows it with a game in which he gets a few early fouls and doesn't play for more than ten minutes.

In Grunfeld's eyes, that type of head case deserved a five-year, $35 million dollar contract extension. After getting the money, Blatche completely checked out and stopped playing with any passion. On top of that, he got out of shape during that offseason.

If Grunfeld didn't extend Blatche's contract, he could have gotten another year or two of productivity out of the incredibly frustrating project.

Not to mention, the Wizards paid Blatche right up until last season after they amnestied him. Grunfeld COULD HAVE not rewarded Blatche and amnestied (for only a year more of pay) Rashard Lewis. Grunfeld re-upped then pretty quickly amnestied Blatche. Andray was a victim of post-Flip rejection. He wasn't Wittman's guy (and neither is Blair and neither was Glen Rice, who they traded two 2nd round picks for).

.................................


THAT ARTICLE DOESN'T INCLUDE -- Signing Eric Maynor to the BAE. Giving hurt Webster a longterm deal. Selling the rights to Jordan Clarkson for cash. Trading for injured Josh Howard. The recent signing of injured Jared Dudley. The successive drafts of Blatche, Pecherov/Veremeenko (Millsap was a guy I contacted the Wizards about way early and way often), Nick Young, McGee--REAL WIZARD...OF OZ ... DRAFTING

Think of the songs from Wizard of Oz that the Tin Man, The Scarecrow, and the Cowardly Lion sang. "If I Only Had a Brain" comes to mind. Those characters lacked heart, wit, and were essentially as uncoachable/unitelligent collectively as you could have possibly selected.

And later, he drafted Jan Vesely!


Look, this is just a message board. I'm just a fan of a team who blogs and who probably puts way too much energy into this. However, the rest of the bunch here are PASSIONATE FANS who want to see the Wizards win.

The reasons I and many others bang on Grunfeld are above. I would give him a grade of between 57 and 68 percent as a GM; with an average GM being 75-80.

And that is being GENEROUS.

[queridiculo]

Bwahahaha, you can't make this **** up.

[dckingsfan]

Wow, just wow... at the risk of repeating myself, this is déjà vu all over again.

[milellie111]

Beal and Wall are arguably the best backcourt in the league. Assembled by Grunfeld. Solid job

[montestewart]

C'mon, man. Not in the middle of my wet dream!

[nuposse04]

Both were consensus picks for the most part. You don't get excessive kudos for doing the most obvious part of your job. If I went to Chipotle and the cashier handed me my burrito you think I'm going to tell them "Holy hell you are so awesome, glad we have you in town!"

IF Porter turns out to be better then Noel then you thump your chest.

[closg00]

Back for trolling I-see, never participates in other discussions really, just in his Godly worship of Ernie Grunfeld.

[milellie111]

Back for trolling I-see, never participates in other discussions really, just in his Godly worship of Ernie Grunfeld.

You're wrong. I've participated in other threads. No Grunfeld worship. Just calling a spade a spade. Why it gotta be worship just to give the man his props? By refusing, you're actually just being a Grunfeld hater.

In addition to the draft picks, guys like Sessions, Neal and Dudley were great additions to the team who have contributed and look to come up big off the bench this season.

[AFM]

Are you Ellie Grunfeld by any chance?

[milellie111]

Umm, Wall isn't a superstar, except in hype and (starting next season) salary. He's a good player, and he might be a star someday if he continues improving. But a) he's not there yet, and b) he still has considerable distance to cover to reach "superstar" status.

False now