daoneandonly wrote:pancakes3 wrote:daoneandonly wrote:
and equating a murderer, rapist, drug user, etc, the same liberties as an upstanding citizen is even worse.
nice try but my position was:
- deportation is not a solution to murder, rape, drug use
- drug laws (and felons) are categorically different than rape and murder
- you can't just say "murderer, rapist, drug user, etc" (read: etc. includes undocumented immigrants) as if they're all the same thing
but it's also very telling that you have a staunch refusal to accept scientific truths, be it the development of fertilized egg to person, or genetic predispositions to addiction, or climate change.
1. Deportation does not need to be a solution, but it can be a preventive measure and or a punishment. Both of things are beneficial when the criminal in question is illegally here. Say it helps to prevent just 2 measley murders, how is that bad? That's 2 people who are not killed, 2 families who dont have to deal with the trauma and bereavement.
edit to add: you also think that deportation is a proper punishment? no. like I said - the police already apprehended the suspects and it's going to trial. that's how the criminal process works. deportation is actually a MUCH milder punishment for murder-rape. so again, why is deportation even in the conversation? it fails both as preventive as well as punitive.
2. A crime is a crime is a crime, granted yes murder and rape are by far the 2 worst, but drug users and sellers need to be held accountable for their choices
3. Speaking of which, choices. Drug use is a choice, not something a person is born to be in danger of. That's a liberal take. As easy as this, pancake, want to do a line of coke? Your response, no thanks man, I'm okay. Easy peezy lemon squeezey. I didnt dismiss climate change as a whole, I believe it has merit, I think the green new deal is one of the stupidest pieces of legislation thsi world has ever seen, but nonetheless, i do think there is a climate change issue. Where I take offense is there are those that are up in arms about the environment and how it relates to and impacts the animal kingdom. Those animals are not more important than babies, or any human for that matter, except maybe hardened criminals and parents who abort their children, then there's a valid argument.
1) Deportation is not an effective use of resources as a preventative measure. How about that? It's already been presented to you that welfare programs that reduce poverty, income inequality, and discrimination are better at preventing crime. Dollar for dollar, if you can prevent a thousand murders instead of 2 murders, isn't that better?
2) I don't know how else to present the argument that laws are the works of man, and can/should change if they are found to be bad laws. Drug laws are one of those laws. Putting that aside, it's not as easy as you asking me to do a line of coke and me refusing. The entire cookie analogy is lost on you, which goes back to my point that you intentionally wallow in a world view that doesn't take into account real world implications of how criminals are created.
3) It's not animals specifically, but nature at large. Deforestation, pollution, ozone depletion, species extinction etc. impact nature. The fact that there are species going extinct portents negative impacts for humans. When people freak out over polar bears, it's not because they love those cuddly creatures but because it means that the arctic biome is being destroyed. It's an indicator of climate change, and the visual of a polar bear on a tiny ice float compared with a vast arctic expanse helps illustrate the rapidness of the change. If you can't get out of your feelings about it, and take issue with the message, it's irrational.
Also, I'm sick and tired of people parroting that "the green new deal is one of the stupidest pieces of legislation this world has ever seen." It's not legislation. It's a policy proposal. By virtue of it taking the correct position on climate change already makes it categorically "not stupid." You can take issue with the details, and that's fine, but the hyperbolic pearl clutching over this drives me bonkers.
