Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[Ruzious]

both LA teams would like to be in the mix

lol

Packages starring Talen Horton Tucker and Luke Kennard will be incoming lol.

The poison pill saves us with Kennard, because it's nearly impossible to trade someone who signs an extension starting the next season with a big increase.

Instead it's gonna be Beal for 30 year old Paul George.

[NatP4]

We certainly are not very far off with our proposals on this board, that would be my takeaway.

[gambitx777]

Do they? I mean we paid a heavily protected first for him, the wizards may be loosing bit it's not all his fault and I can't see him depriciating that much some sure but laughing off the phone ,no .. But he's still avaeraging 18 a game gorge hill isn't much better than westbrook at this rate, he's just cheaper and other than the they aren't giving anything of value. Miller and Ariza don't play and Justin jackson does next to nothing. Robert williams is a decent defender and a hard nosed rebounder who just can't get playing time behind 2 starting caliber centers and a young diamond in the rough that just happens too be 7'3. They have a blaring whole at C behind an aging vent. It's common for a team to take bad contracts for firsts. This makes sense by the time you have to pay SGA both him and horford will be on expiring contracts and be movable in trades for big money targets on teams trying to clear tax room and accruing some assets which they have plenty of. Also they traded russ away for a pick i believe form huston so taking 2 assets to take him back like 2 seasons later is a big brain extra value play.

Wiz get ariza, miller justin jackson, prichard , nesmith
Okc get westbrook, williams III, 2021 boston pick
Boston get hill and Burtans

They fit into boston's tpe, that makes that team stupid deep.

Wiz get a couple young guys and off westbrooks money. Cut Ariza and miller and decide if you want a look at jackson or not.

Thunder get westbrook home for the end of his Playing days, they are in tank mode so the money doesn't matter and a young center and a pick, for taking westbrook, who helps that young team in the locker room too. They look like they are going to loose the gs pick to protections so this makes up for that.

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OKC laughs you off the phone.

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[Ruzious]

Sounds like GS is shopping Oubre to NO. Could it be that they're trying to gather more assets to trade for Beal? If they're able to get someone like NAW in the deal, it could be. Ball would be a bland possibility. Bledsoe would not make sense - at his age - though he's finally become a good 3 point shooter.

[gambitx777]

See this kind of thought bothers me. Like I don't recall harden being traded for high picks? pG wasn't moved for high picks like 4 or 5 firsts maybe even if they are late ones are still worth something. You have to use assets to improve your position we don't have assets . I think only trading beal for a top 5 pick is silly what if we botch that pick like we've done in the past? What of we pick another Jan vesley or otto porter with those 1 or 2 picks we get for beal? Is that better than taking 4 or 5 and maybing getting a MPJ or another brandon clarke, a Pascal Siakam, a jimmy butler and a Kevin huerter over a few years ? Now you can easily botch late picks too I know that but we should not turn our noses up at a package of 4-5 plus picks over the next 3-4 seasons just cuz they are late picks is all I'm saying.

Yes if GS tosses the house, the farm and the bread truck at us that's the better offer but that might not be offered.

Wiz get Jones, bane, clarke, winslow 2021 utah pick, 2022 grizz pick, 2024 gs pick 2024 gizz pick
Grizz get beal

Good enough for beal or should the there be another pick added ? Like 2021 utah pick, 2021 grizz pick, 2023 grizz pick 2024 gs pick 2025 grizz pick.

Bane looks like he might have been a steal, we all love brandon clarke, jones is ok and winslow can either be bought out or warm the bench. You cut or trade ish and lopez or gill but it works.

That's just one of many 4-quarters-for-a-dollar deals that are out there. Any relatively young middle-tier team is likely to put together a similar offer of rotation players and late picks. OKC, New Orleans, Orlando, Atlanta and others can field the same package. None of them are that interesting because the picks are late. If that's the only type of deal available, then, sure, we take the best one offered. But I definitely wouldn't pull the trigger on something like this now. I want a deal that gives us one or two guys who could actually be a legit All-Star level player. Not 6 players/prospects who are all merely rotation players.

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[gambitx777]

Would NO trade NAW and ball for oubre of all people? That sounds like a bad trade to me also if they trade them together they can't use them in a combo trade for beal by the dead line I'm pretty sure. So Idk.

Sounds like GS is shopping Oubre to NO. Could it be that they're trying to gather more assets to trade for Beal? If they're able to get someone like NAW in the deal, it could be. Ball would be a bland possibility. Bledsoe would not make sense - at his age - though he's finally become a good 3 point shooter.

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[Ruzious]

Would NO trade NAW and ball for oubre of all people? That sounds like a bad trade to me also if they trade them together they can't use them in a combo trade for beal by the dead line I'm pretty sure. So Idk.

Sounds like GS is shopping Oubre to NO. Could it be that they're trying to gather more assets to trade for Beal? If they're able to get someone like NAW in the deal, it could be. Ball would be a bland possibility. Bledsoe would not make sense - at his age - though he's finally become a good 3 point shooter.

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That's not what I was suggesting. I was going over a few players that might be involved in a trade - not suggesting any specific trade.

[gambitx777]

Fair sorry I was assuming, I have a feeling teams would get creative if beal went on the open market.

Would NO trade NAW and ball for oubre of all people? That sounds like a bad trade to me also if they trade them together they can't use them in a combo trade for beal by the dead line I'm pretty sure. So Idk.

Sounds like GS is shopping Oubre to NO. Could it be that they're trying to gather more assets to trade for Beal? If they're able to get someone like NAW in the deal, it could be. Ball would be a bland possibility. Bledsoe would not make sense - at his age - though he's finally become a good 3 point shooter.

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That's not what I was suggesting. I was going over a few players that might be involved in a trade - not suggesting any specific trade.

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[gambitx777]

Wrong thread carey on

[nate33]

See this kind of thought bothers me. Like I don't recall harden being traded for high picks?

Brooklyn traded their 2025 and 2027 picks, plus the 2026 pick swap. By then, Harden and Durant will be 35 and 37, if they're even still with Brooklyn. Those picks could be very valuable.

[gambitx777]

Could be, ja morant could blow his knees out, lots of things could happen and could be valuable. Those picks are up for chance just like every pick in the draft is up to chance chance .

See this kind of thought bothers me. Like I don't recall harden being traded for high picks?

Brooklyn traded their 2025 and 2027 picks, plus the 2026 pick swap. By then, Harden and Durant will be 35 and 37, if they're even still with Brooklyn. Those picks could be very valuable.

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[Dat2U]

Nate... Big fan.
Another sleeper team for Beal are the Spurs.
- Pop is 71
- The team is .500
- Derozan is ballin
- They have all their picks and a ton of young assets.

Beal + Lopez for Aldridge, Vassell, Tre Jones, Lyles, Samanic plus picks (Up for discussion, but they have all their future 1st)

Murray / Mills
Beal / White / Walker
Keldon Johnson / Walker
Derozan / Gay
Poeltl / Lopez

I would include a 3rd team to send Aldridge to that need a big (Back to Portland?)

I was huge Vassell and Jones fan this last draft. I also think their future picks could be steals for a couple reasons:
1) Pop will be gone
2) FA's never go to SA, so little chance cap space will save them like it could a team like Miami

Also, I could see Beal really enjoying his time there and competing in the West for a couple playoff runs, but also not resigning there. Then we jump back in the game to sign him in 2022.

How in the world you suggest Beal to SA but don't ask for Keldon Johnson, Lonnie Walker, Dejounte Murray but instead want the role players they just drafted? Its like we don't value what we have, we don't dare ask for another teams' best assets but we get googly eyed over other team's future role players and late 1sts? If your trying to build something special in San Antonio, then yes, this is absolute way to go.

[Ruzious]

And I don't see SA as a team that's going to go for Beal. He's not going to make them a championship contender - they don't have enough up front - unless they think they can win with 5 wing players.

[pcbothwel]

Nate... Big fan.
Another sleeper team for Beal are the Spurs.
- Pop is 71
- The team is .500
- Derozan is ballin
- They have all their picks and a ton of young assets.

Beal + Lopez for Aldridge, Vassell, Tre Jones, Lyles, Samanic plus picks (Up for discussion, but they have all their future 1st)

Murray / Mills
Beal / White / Walker
Keldon Johnson / Walker
Derozan / Gay
Poeltl / Lopez

I would include a 3rd team to send Aldridge to that need a big (Back to Portland?)

I was huge Vassell and Jones fan this last draft. I also think their future picks could be steals for a couple reasons:
1) Pop will be gone
2) FA's never go to SA, so little chance cap space will save them like it could a team like Miami

Also, I could see Beal really enjoying his time there and competing in the West for a couple playoff runs, but also not resigning there. Then we jump back in the game to sign him in 2022.

How in the world you suggest Beal to SA but don't ask for Keldon Johnson, Lonnie Walker, Dejounte Murray but instead want the role players they just drafted? Its like we don't value what we have, we don't dare ask for another teams' best assets but we get googly eyed over other team's future role players and late 1sts? If your trying to build something special in San Antonio, then yes, this is absolute way to go.

Dat... Easy:
1) I value longer term, upside assets over filler. Asking for Keldon/Murray is getting a player with less control/more salary while also diminishing the picks we would get. I love Vassell and think long term he is better than either of the 3 players you mentioned, but he plays the least...So, SA would probably value him less in the immediate and therefore give us a better package overall.
Also, SA only makes this trade to compete as a top 4 team in the West. Taking starters out of their lineup makes it harder for to sell them on the idea.

2) On that note, what the hell makes Walker special...Like, at all? Highly recruited? Sure, but he was a mediocre college player in a mediocre program. Since being drafted he has shown to be below average to downright poor at scoring, rebounding, creating, defending, passing, etc. Basically every facet of basketball...oh, and he has 2 less years of control than Vassell.

3) Picks: When we look at picks in the 2024-2027 range we need to be smart. I pointed out that while SA has been a pinnacle of consistency the last 20+ years, I see good reason to bet on them falling off in 3-4 years. As I said, Pop is 71 and will surely retire in the next 3 years after this run. Also, unlike teams in LA, Miami, NY, Dallas/Houston, etc. SA has shown no ability to lure top FA. This means that I dont see massive cap room bailing them out like it did with Miami, Brooklyn, etc. This cannot be understated.

4) Beal: This is the BEST situation for us/Beal. Why? For Beal, he gets to play for an excellent coach and organization and try to compete for a title each of the next two offseasons. Why for us? 1) We ship Beal out West and we dont compete against him. 2) SA is one of the teams that I could see Beal enjoying his time with, but walking away from in 2022. Meaning we could take a stab at him in FA.

To recap, it would be:
Beal + Lopez for
Aldridge, Vassell, Tre Jones, Lyles, Samanic plus picks (Up for discussion, but they have all their future 1st)
I would want 2023, 2025, and 2027 at a minimum. But swaps in 24 & 26 as well would be great.

Thats is really solid deal. No Pop, No draft picks, in San Antonio... They could have some really lean years in 23-27.

Also, I would ship Aldridge to a 3rd team for a small asset.

Again, they are 10-8 and 5th in the West with Pop reaching the end. If SA were to ever make an out of character trade like this, it would be now.

[nate33]

Jonathon Tjarks of The Ringer makes a compelling argument to trade Beal to Golden State:

Read on Twitter

It's good to see mainstream NBA guys agree with the basic building blocks of the trade: Beal for Wiseman and the Minnesota lotto pick, and then haggle over other future picks. The filler would either be Wiggins or Oubre, but Wiggins makes more sense in light of the luxtax costs over the long term.

This deal really makes the most sense of all the deals out there. I'd definitely do it if the Warriors included their 2021 pick (top 21-30 protected) and their 2026 pick (unprotected). I like the Wiggins permutation best. Wiggins is only 25 and seems to have figured things out as long as he is in a lower usage role.

We would tank this year and land a top 5 pick on our own. We would probably suck next year because everyone is still too young so we'd land another top 5 pick in 2022. But after two years of sucking we'd have a roster with:

- 2021 high lotto pick (ours)
- 2021 or 2022 high lotto pick (MIN)
- 2021 or 2022 late 1st (GSW)
- 2022 high lotto pick (ours)
- Wiseman in his 3rd year after 2 years of being force-fed minutes
- Avdija in his 3rd year
- Hachimura in his 4th year
- Mathews hopefully on a reasonable contract
- Bertans at age 30 earning $15M, or whatever pick we traded Bertans for
- Wiggins at age 27 on a massive expiring contract
- Westbrook's corpse on a massive expiring contract
- Bird Rights on Bryant

How could any GM screw up that asset base? And the coach would have no choice but to force the youngsters to play a ton of minutes so they should all grow up fairly fast. We could either trade Westbrook or Wiggins for a good veteran on a longer term deal, or we could wait a year and have max cap room because only Hachimura would be up for a new contract.

[payitforward]

The high order bit in this last discussion is the phrase "out of character trade." I don't think they'll give all the potentials you list for the actual of Beal. They have a strong belief in their ability to find outstanding players in the draft wherever they pick.

OTOH, I agree that calling Vassell & Jones "role players" as opposed to e.g. Walker Jr. is unwarranted (not that we know yet how good Jones'll be...).

In any case, 5 players, 3 picks & 2 pick swaps... no way they'd do that kind of deal.

[Dat2U]

How could any GM screw up that asset base? And the coach would have no choice but to force the youngsters to play a ton of minutes so they should all grow up fairly fast. We could either trade Westbrook or Wiggins for a good veteran on a longer term deal, or we could wait a year and have max cap room because only Hachimura would be up for a new contract.

Ernie Grunfeld did screw up a very nice situation we could have had from 2010 on. I cringe when I think about all the draft picks and assets he blew through. Shepp was on board for the entire process and spearheaded many of the picks including Vesely. Shepp has the same draft strategy Ernie did. Go for multi-skilled prospects who can play on the ball or go for athletes with elite physical traits. Then you have Ted's involvement too. If a prospect is in an untapped basketball market... Best believe WSE will formulate a business plan that will be more thorough than the scouting report.

So yeah the Wizards front office would likely screw it up again.

[nate33]

How could any GM screw up that asset base? And the coach would have no choice but to force the youngsters to play a ton of minutes so they should all grow up fairly fast. We could either trade Westbrook or Wiggins for a good veteran on a longer term deal, or we could wait a year and have max cap room because only Hachimura would be up for a new contract.

Ernie Grunfeld did screw up a very nice situation we could have had from 2010 on. I cringe when I think about all the draft picks and assets he blew through. Shepp was on board for the entire process and spearheaded many of the picks including Vesely. Shepp has the same draft strategy Ernie did. Go for multi-skilled prospects who can play on the ball or go for athletes with elite physical traits. Then you have Ted's involvement too. If a prospect is in an untapped basketball market... Best believe WSE will formulate a business plan that will be more thorough than the scouting report.

So yeah the Wizards front office would likely screw it up again.

Yeah, perhaps I shouldn't have said that.

But to be fair, the team has done pretty well with high picks except for the Vesely disaster (and few others did well with high picks in that draft). The Wizards are terrible at finding diamonds in the rough, but when the choice is just between a handful of heavily researched top prospects, they do okay. At least this time around, there is no incentive to trade a high pick for Mike Miller.

[doclinkin]

Asset base, I guess.

But: What collection of youth has ever developed into a championship team? If that is our team then get me Tom Izzo or Jay Wright or Tony Bennett so we can teach fundamentals. Except that in the NBA there is no time to drill players in the basics. Young teams tend to lose, lose, lose, while players learn bad habits and bad chemistry. It makes busts out of strong talent. I for one don't really want Wiseman as the centerpiece of any deal. A team that gives up on a top 3 pick after the 1st year of having him, especially a team with basketball minds like Kerr, Curry and Draymond, that is a player I don't want. I mean okay if Beal asks for a swap then get everything we can, but my impression is Wiseman is soft and undermotivated. As the literal centerpiece of a team that is not what I want to build around. I want supremely talented overachievers, not repeats of Kwame, JaVale, etc.

[nate33]

Asset base, I guess.

But: What collection of youth has ever developed into a championship team? If that is our team then get me Tom Izzo or Jay Wright or Tony Bennett so we can teach fundamentals. Except that in the NBA there is no time to drill players in the basics. Young teams tend to lose, lose, lose, while players learn bad habits and bad chemistry. It makes busts out of strong talent. I for one don't really want Wiseman as the centerpiece of any deal. A team that gives up on a top 3 pick after the 1st year of having him, especially a team with basketball minds like Kerr, Curry and Draymond, that is a player I don't want. I mean okay if Beal asks for a swap then get everything we can, but my impression is Wiseman is soft and undermotivated. As the literal centerpiece of a team that is not what I want to build around. I want supremely talented overachievers, not repeats of Kwame, JaVale, etc.

I'd enthusiastically endorse flipping Wiseman for someone else, either another pick (probably late lotto) or an underrated young player with great work habits and leadership. Would Memphis part with Brandon Clarke or Xavier Tillman? Or maybe trade for a guard with a bulldog mentality like Marcus Smart?

One thing we do have is a group of young guys who are gym rats that want to get better. I don't think we have to worry too much about Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant or Brown getting lazy, even if we lose a lot. And Westbrook should still be a pretty good influence on that front.