Deni Avdija

[payitforward]

... downplayed Franz Wagner all draft cycle, and ...Now Wagner is looking like the best player in the class....

Yeah, I ...recall you assessing Jared Butler as a star in the making. You were wrong on that....

Finally! You're both totally right that you're both wrong.

The only one who's totally right about being wrong is someone who's always right about never being wrong.

Me in other words. & don't you forget it either!

[prime1time]

It’s only a hollow term to you. Not ball hogging, or doing dumb things, having solid basketball UQ, and playing good defense, and also avoiding bad plays, are all things that positively influence the outcome of the game.

This is coming from the guy that downplayed Franz Wagner all draft cycle, and talked up Cade Cunningham like he’s the next Luka Doncic. Now Wagner is looking like the best player in the class, and Cunningham looks like he might be a total Evan Turner level bust.

You incorrectly evaluate players, and you are doing it again with Avdija just as you did with Hachimura.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. But knowing how you see things, I'm not surprised it touched a nerve lol. If I recall correctly, I actually stated on this board that I have become a believer regarding Wagner, and this was before he finished his last college season. In fact I looked it up February 25th, I said, "I've become a believer. Not sure what he'll end up being, but he does strike me as a player that consistently stays within himself. I get Otto Porter vibes from him in a good way. Not putting him in the top 5, but I can see anywhere from 6 to 14." Back then, I said repeatedly that I like Wagner more than I like Avdija.

Now, you have attempted to mischaracterize my post so I will clarify. It's not that those things aren't important. But only they are important once you can do big things. Once you can space the floor, attack closeouts and be a competent offensive basketball player then those things become super important. Without it, you'd be left with a very talented/skilled player who cannot actually help a player win. The last time I checked though, this is the Deni Avdija thread. I don't like to waste time talking about non-Wizards but I have to tip my cap because you did believe in Wagner from the beginning. With that being said, Wagner and the Magic have a ways to go before they will be a winning organization and part of the reason is that Suggs was such a big miss.

But I guess we shouldn't mention that name lol

[Dolevi]

...Avdija has a long long way to go...

Yup. A long shot to be a starting caliber SF (and third option) on a championship team. Rui has no chance at doing that, IMO.

And you look at the rest of the young players on the team and none of them will get to the level of third option on a championship team either.

Betting against #soWizards is always a good bet

Yes,
He's saying that like it's a bad thing.
If Deni will end as a starting caliber SF on a championship team, that's already very good for him. Man just now there were the rumors about the Suns who had interest in Deni. This destination isn't that far away even now.

[Wizraeli]

Now, you have attempted to mischaracterize my post so I will clarify. It's not that those things aren't important. But only they are important once you can do big things. Once you can space the floor, attack closeouts and be a competent offensive basketball player then those things become super important. Without it, you'd be left with a very talented/skilled player who cannot actually help a player win. The last time I checked though, this is the Deni Avdija thread. I don't like to waste time talking about non-Wizards but I have to tip my cap because you did believe in Wagner from the beginning. With that being said, Wagner and the Magic have a ways to go before they will be a winning organization and part of the reason is that Suggs was such a big miss.

I don't understand what's your point and what you are arguing about.

I don't think there's a single person in this board that doesn't wants Deni to improve his 3 pt shot, ok, we got it, 3 pt is important, what now? Deni is a young Wizards player, that's a fact, he's here, right now, do you see a better Wizards young player at the moment the Wizards should give precedence over Deni and tie their future with? I don't see one, when there will be such a player, we'll talk and do comparisons, until then, I don't know what you want the Wizards to do, you want them to trade Deni? is that what's this is all about?


The 2 things any objective person can say about Deni are:

1. He contributes in many aspects of the game.
2. He's improving, slowly, but improving.

For better and worse, Rui is Rui and he'll probably will remain the same kind of player he's now for the rest of his career, 6 years from now, when he's 30 he'll probably do the exact same things he's done until now and won't do anything else he haven't done until now, for the majority of this board and apparently the Wiz staff as well I don't think that's the feeling with Deni, the feeling is that what we see now won't be what we'll see from him in 6 years so the general feeling is that he's a good investment, good 3 pt % or not.

[payitforward]

29% from 3 is telling Avdijas story. Unless he can improve this he’s going to be nothing more then a role player.

Another pretty disappointing first round pick by this franchise.
Stings looking at Halliburton picked a few picks after Avdija.

No doubt, since he's starting to look like an MVP candidate!

Only, there's a big problem w/ pointing out that...
"Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Deni (picked at 9)..."

...which is that...

Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Anthony Edwards (picked at 1).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than James Wiseman (picked at 2).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Patrick Williams (picked at 4).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Isaac Okoro (picked at 5).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Onyeka Okongwu (picked at 6).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Killian Hayes (picked at 7).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Obi Toppin (picked at 8).

...
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is also a better player than Lamelo Ball (picked at 3).
But, b/c Lamelo is at least than as he is those other guys. So I keep the Lamelo comparison separate.

Of course it's also true that

Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Jalen Smith (picked at 10).
Tyrese Haliburton (picked at 12) is a much better player than Devin Vassell (picked at 11).

Oh, & it's also true that

Tyrese Haliburton is better than every single player picked in the entire 2019 draft & the entire 2021 draft.

So, yeah... it would have been great if we'd had the good sense to take him -- as Dat & a few others wanted to do -- but, it's hardly something you can put on Tommy's list of sins.

In fact, try a series of statements in that form for Jokic in the 2014 draft! You'd have to write it out 40 times!
Or for Giannis in '13 -- a dozen times!

Main point: a guy is NOT a bad draft pick because a better player was taken later than he was. He's a bad draft pick if he doesn't develop into a good player. Period..

[NatP4]

He’s 22. His 3pt shot will be fine. He’s already shooting 33% from 3 in his last 10 games, 40% in his last 5. Almost every single young player improves their 3pt% over time.

I see zero reason for concern about his development. Deni is getting more assists, rebounds, and steals, and getting to the free throw line more this year. His 2pt% continues to be consistently solid. His defense is always solid and versatile.

A year from now he’s going to be a solid positive on both sides of the ball, a secondary playmaker, and a versatile 1-5 defender that can play the 2/3/4 positions. He’ll bump his 3pt% up to around 35% and be a 58% TS guy as he gets stronger and naturally finishes around the basket a little better.

[deneem4]

He should be the starting point guard with an always green light

[NatP4]

He should be the starting point guard with an always green light

He should be starting at literally any position and playing 34 minutes a night and being used as a secondary/primary option in the pick and roll and encouraged to just launch up shots and do whatever he wants.

Instead his minutes get jerked around and when he does play they make him stand in the corner like a spot up shooter and watch one of the most overrated chuckers in the game act like he’s Kevin Durant.

The wiz could drastically change the trajectory of this current roster if they just trade Kuzma in the next couple days and let Deni play like he’s the new Kuzma.

[dckingsfan]

He should be the starting point guard with an always green light

He should be starting at literally any position and playing 34 minutes a night and being used as a secondary/primary option in the pick and roll and encouraged to just launch up shots and do whatever he wants.

Instead his minutes get jerked around and when he does play they make him stand in the corner like a spot up shooter and watch one of the most overrated chuckers in the game act like he’s Kevin Durant.

The wiz could drastically change the trajectory of this current roster if they just trade Kuzma in the next couple days and let Deni play like he’s the new Kuzma.

Feels like coulda shoulda woulda... I think Wes is going for the play-in and is trying to reduce mistakes.

[Dolevi]

I'm not sure he is ready yet for the 'Kuzma' role, but if we're taking his potential, his age, his profile and mentality, his abilities and potential abilities (playmaking skills and IQ) into considerations, giving him time to develop into this role and let him mistake / get a real experience with on-ball plays, will get him confidence and will make sure we fulfill his true potential. And this will also maximize our potential as a winning team also.

Right now this is probably the best decision this organization can take, considering our alternatives and other possible upgrades / evolvements to the team. In my opinion and truly objective.

[dckingsfan]

I'm not sure he is ready yet for the 'Kuzma' role, but if we're taking his potential, his age, his profile and mentality, his abilities and potential abilities (playmaking skills and IQ) into considerations, giving him time to develop into this role and let him mistake / get a real experience with on-ball plays, will get him confidence and will make sure we fulfill his true potential. And this will also maximize our potential as a winning team also.

Right now this is probably the best decision this organization can take, considering our alternatives and other possible upgrades / evolvements to the team. In my opinion and truly objective.

There are three different parts of the organization at play here. The coaching staff who is tasked with win now. The front office which has been tasked with a middle rebuild. And the fan base that is all over the place (as it should be).

Letting Deni get real world experience will cause more losses now. Full stop. He just isn't ready to take on the roll and create wins (this coming from someone who wanted Deni in the draft).

For the front office tasked with the middle rebuild - any loss could take you out of the play-in and into the lottery. So count that as cognitive dissonance. They won't be able to choose between playing Deni and not going to the playoffs and playing Deni for a long-term "potentially" better team (they could force the issue by trading Kuzma, they won't and that gives you your answer).

And then there is the fans. They either love or hate him (or are meh). I think there is only a small part of the fan base that wants what you want (I am right there with you - but I wanted to see him develop and promote the tank at the same time).

[deneem4]

He should be the starting point guard with an always green light

He should be starting at literally any position and playing 34 minutes a night and being used as a secondary/primary option in the pick and roll and encouraged to just launch up shots and do whatever he wants.

Instead his minutes get jerked around and when he does play they make him stand in the corner like a spot up shooter and watch one of the most overrated chuckers in the game act like he’s Kevin Durant.

The wiz could drastically change the trajectory of this current roster if they just trade Kuzma in the next couple days and let Deni play like he’s the new Kuzma.

Feels like coulda shoulda woulda... I think Wes is going for the play-in and is trying to reduce mistakes.

Obviously we’re trying to stay in the play in so we keep our pick

[doclinkin]

He should be starting at literally any position and playing 34 minutes a night and being used as a secondary/primary option in the pick and roll and encouraged to just launch up shots and do whatever he wants.

Instead his minutes get jerked around and when he does play they make him stand in the corner like a spot up shooter and watch one of the most overrated chuckers in the game act like he’s Kevin Durant.

The wiz could drastically change the trajectory of this current roster if they just trade Kuzma in the next couple days and let Deni play like he’s the new Kuzma.

Feels like coulda shoulda woulda... I think Wes is going for the play-in and is trying to reduce mistakes.

Obviously we’re trying to stay in the play in so we keep our pick

Ha! You mean lose in the play in so we both get that one extra game to satisfy Ted, and still won't lose our pick.

[Kanyewest]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=WashingtonWizards

[Wizraeli]

Watch on YouTube

[Dolevi]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=WashingtonWizards

Look at 0:58
KP when he's taking the right decisions on offense is very very tough to guard. He knows to pass the ball when needed it seems, that was great offense and floor spacing, if there were a closeout on Deni's 3ball by Hayward, you could trust Deni to make the extra pass to Kispert at the corner. He plays the game smart and as it should be.

Also notice at 0:22 how he plays with KP the 'Hand-off' from the corner coming to his strong right. Tough to guard. This move is something that the team does in a constantly way lately for Deni for who follows the games. It also shows the love between KP and Deni with all the interview thing. Another thing - I see the team is running a lot the Double Drag at Default offense, don't have a video here to send but it happens a lot when Beal is with the ball and 2 screeners are coming together, what makes life a lot harder for the defense to avoid the roller's movement and the ball handler's drive. Usually KP will also use one of the screens to pop out for 3. Good play.

[tontoz]

In his last 5 games he's scored 20 3 times?!

[nate33]

When I saw the box score of the Charlotte game, I saw that Deni had 0 assists. I was like WTF Deni? Don't get selfish!

But then I watched a replay of the game and Deni made about 5 or 6 passes that should have been assists. He had 4 passes for WIDE OPEN uncontested looks from Kispert, Beal, Wright and Zinger. All of them missed. He also hit Gafford on a roll but Gafford didn't finish. And he had a handful of hockey assists.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

When I saw the box score of the Charlotte game, I saw that Deni had 0 assists. I was like WTF Deni? Don't get selfish!

But then I watched a replay of the game and Deni made about 5 or 6 passes that should have been assists. He had 4 passes for WIDE OPEN uncontested looks from Kispert, Beal, Wright and Zinger. All of them missed. He also hit Gafford on a roll but Gafford didn't finish. And he had a handful of hockey assists.

I noticed that as well. We've talked to this before, but it's getting a bit odd how many of his passes are bricks by other players. Are they just not used to him or expecting to get them the ball in those positions. Is there a stat that accounts for this, like expected assist percentage?

[doclinkin]

When I saw the box score of the Charlotte game, I saw that Deni had 0 assists. I was like WTF Deni? Don't get selfish!

But then I watched a replay of the game and Deni made about 5 or 6 passes that should have been assists. He had 4 passes for WIDE OPEN uncontested looks from Kispert, Beal, Wright and Zinger. All of them missed. He also hit Gafford on a roll but Gafford didn't finish. And he had a handful of hockey assists.

I noticed that as well. We've talked to this before, but it's getting a bit odd how many of his passes are bricks by other players. Are they just not used to him or expecting to get them the ball in those positions. Is there a stat that accounts for this, like expected assist percentage?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?TeamID=1610612764&dir=D&sort=POTENTIAL_AST

Deni Avdija 4.8 potential assists per game.