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2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1861 » by pcbothwel » Thu Jun 5, 2025 4:57 pm

Not a Fears guy. However, when you look at the list of lead guards that reclassed/were under 19 when drafted and had a usage in the ~30% range... it almost doesnt exist. When you combine that with a terrible team like Oklahoma was, its basically Fears and Anthony Edwards. Something has to be said for a guy like that and how that projects moving forward.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1862 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 4:58 pm

I don’t know that there has to be some direct comparable for Richardson.

Synergy:
At rim: 89th (!!)
Off the dribble: 72nd
Off screen: 82nd
Spot up: 93rd
P&R ball handler: 93rd
Transition: 86th
Handoffs: 64th

He’s just really good. Put up a very similar season to Reed Sheppard while being 1.5 years younger.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1863 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:08 pm

NatP4 wrote:I don’t know that there has to be some direct comparable for Richardson.

Synergy:
At rim: 89th (!!)
Off the dribble: 72nd
Off screen: 82nd
Spot up: 93rd
P&R ball handler: 93rd
Transition: 86th
Handoffs: 64th

He’s just really good. Put up a very similar season to Reed Sheppard while being 1.5 years younger.

Where did you find these stats?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1864 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:12 pm

Brooklyn has worked out Jeremiah Fears and Kon Knoeppel. (Also Nique Clifford and Johnni Broome). They've made noise in the past that they are looking for a quick rebuild, so players like Clifford and Broome make sense. Kon too if that's who falls to them at 8.

But Fears is an outlier in that bunch. Or maybe not, if you think he both produces early and has upside. Thing is he's slated to go earlier than 8. If they are working him out it hints again to me that they have serious interest in trading up, and think his talent is too good to let slip. The fact that he added an inch and a dozen pounds in a year has boosted his stock. Especially if his medicals say he still has growth in his bones. So far it looks like Fears has only worked out for them, and us.

I still think Utah takes him and flips him to the Nets, but if I can't trade up I think I'm still interested in that action. Like worth a counter-offer. Especially if the politics question means Maluach may slip to 8. That only works if Pels want Fears though. Do they need an understudy for CJ McCollum? Dunno. Maluach is probably safe to be skipped by the Pels though since they have Missi.

I'd love the safety net of one or more of 19, 26, 27. There still looks to be a lot of players there I'm intrigued by. And/or extra ammo to trade up into the lotto if necessary.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1865 » by tontoz » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:17 pm

As far as i know none of the guys projected for the lottery have done workouts other than Fears and Kon. Seems a little odd.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1866 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:Brooklyn has worked out Jeremiah Fears and Kon Knoeppel. (Also Nique Clifford and Johnni Broome). They've made noise in the past that they are looking for a quick rebuild, so players like Clifford and Broome make sense. Kon too if that's who falls to them at 8.

But Fears is an outlier in that bunch. Or maybe not, if you think he both produces early and has upside. Thing is he's slated to go earlier than 8. If they are working him out it hints again to me that they have serious interest in trading up, and think his talent is too good to let slip. The fact that he added an inch and a dozen pounds in a year has boosted his stock. Especially if his medicals say he still has growth in his bones. So far it looks like Fears has only worked out for them, and us.

I still think Utah takes him and flips him to the Nets, but if I can't trade up I think I'm still interested in that action. Like worth a counter-offer. Especially if the politics question means Maluach may slip to 8. That only works if Pels want Fears though. Do they need an understudy for CJ McCollum? Dunno. Maluach is probably safe to be skipped by the Pels though since they have Missi.

I'd love the safety net of one or more of 19, 26, 27. There still looks to be a lot of players there I'm intrigued by. And/or extra ammo to trade up into the lotto if necessary.

Yeah, if Tre Johnson is gone by #6, a trade-down to #8 makes a ton of sense. Maluach will probably still be there. And even if he isn't, Jase and Essengue will be there. I'm okay with any of those guys.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1867 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:31 pm

Northwest Roddy wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm revisiting Jase Richardson. Most had written him off after he measured just 6'-0.5" in height at the combine, but it's worth noting that he has a 6'-6" wingspan, giving him the same exact standing reach as Jeremiah Fears. He is also the same exact age (18.68 on draft day).

Richardson is unusual in that he started out as a bench player until Izzo finally decided to start him halfway through the year. The moment he moved to the starting lineup, he became the offensive engine of that team.

Here is the Tankathon comparison of Richardson, Fears, and I included Harper for the heck of it. I added a 4th column using my elite photoshop skills to incorporate Richardson's per 36 numbers after becoming a starter.

Image

A couple of observations:
- Richardson scored basically just as much as Harper and Fears, only much more efficiently and with an incredibly low turnover rate. Richardson didn't have much playmaking responsibility though.
- Richardson got to the line almost as much as the other guys
- Richardson is 9 months younger than Harper
- Richardson blows both guys away in advanced stats.

I really think Richardson deserves a second look here. The big thing is his utter lack of turnovers. It doesn't seem like much in a box score, but low turnovers are extremely important to winning basketball games.
Exactly.

Closg00 asked me to play Nostradamus.

tankathon led me to Jase Richardson (along with Dat2U's analysis)

All that and his dad was a very good NBA player.

I recall Jason Richardson working out in Hawaii at the Big Man Camp (2002) against players mostly over 6'9".

Playing for Coach Izzo, having a terrific work ethic, and a strong dad will make Jase a great pick.

I remember Nate saying last year that one of the highest correlations with success in the NBA was being the son of an NBA player. Hasn't worked out for Reed Sheppard yet, but seems to be another positive factor in Jase's favor. I'm hoping for Maluach and Richardson fwiw.
That's also why Dylan Harper is a pretty sure bet to be a successful to outstanding NBA player.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1868 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 5:41 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I don’t know that there has to be some direct comparable for Richardson.

Synergy:
At rim: 89th (!!)
Off the dribble: 72nd
Off screen: 82nd
Spot up: 93rd
P&R ball handler: 93rd
Transition: 86th
Handoffs: 64th

He’s just really good. Put up a very similar season to Reed Sheppard while being 1.5 years younger.

Where did you find these stats?


The No Ceilings draft guide has shot chart&Synergy numbers on every player.

Fears:

P&R ball handler: 58th
Transition: 60th
Spot up: 50th
Isolation: 69th
Handoffs: 46th
Catch and shoot: 66th
At rim: 31st (yikes)
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1869 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 5, 2025 6:08 pm

nate33 wrote:I have Jase Richardson firmly above Jeremiah Fears on my board. At #6, I'm fine if they choose to go big (Maluach) or high upside (Essengue) or even a can't-miss role player (Bryant), but if they draft a shot-creating guard, I want Richardson, not Fears.

Agree entirely -- & that's also what the numbers say.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1870 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 6:51 pm

nate33 wrote:I have Jase Richardson firmly above Jeremiah Fears on my board. At #6, I'm fine if they choose to go big (Maluach) or high upside (Essengue) or even a can't-miss role player (Bryant), but if they draft a shot-creating guard, I want Richardson, not Fears.


Jase was primarily a SG in college, with all the guards we have, where will he get minutes?

BTW, I like Jase, he is a good example of why I disliked the Denny trade so-much, good shooting guards are available in nearly every draft, I like his game better than Bubs.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1871 » by badinage » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:00 pm

Latest rumor making the rounds —

That the Spurs are looking to make a move for Maluach to pair with Wemby. Not at No. 2, though.

So maybe give them no. 6 + Bilal? Would that get us to no. 2?

Or is this just some pathetic smokescreen?

And is the buzz around Maluach in the top half of the lotto just that — just smoke? Or are teams into him?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1872 » by Gig18 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:00 pm

Haven't been here in a long time. But the draft stirs passions and old memories. Gotta say, right now, two guys who look like they have superpowers are Maluach and Fears. I'm an old guy. Fears reminds me a little bit of Rod Strickland; Maluach LOOKS like he could develop as a shooter. Geez, a 7 foot, impossible-reach, rim-running, defensive-player-of-the-year type. Sounds good.
But I also wanted to ask; why no love for Kneuppel. I know he's below the rim.
But gosh, last year a lot of this board was falling all over themselves in love with Reed Sheppard, who was small for a PG! Kneuppel is at least 6-5 and 219 pounds. Smart as hell, good passer and reallllly good shooter. We're pretty bad offensively.
What if he's Chris Mullins?
By the way, he's reminscent of an old 2 time allstar Bullet and Duke player--- Jack Marin.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1873 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:06 pm

closg00 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I have Jase Richardson firmly above Jeremiah Fears on my board. At #6, I'm fine if they choose to go big (Maluach) or high upside (Essengue) or even a can't-miss role player (Bryant), but if they draft a shot-creating guard, I want Richardson, not Fears.


Jase was primarily a SG in college, with all the guards we have, where will he get minutes?

BTW, I like Jase, he is a good example of why I disliked the Denny trade so-much, good shooting guards are available in nearly every draft, I like his game better than Bubs.

He will play PG in the pros. I know his assist rate is low, but I'm not really worried about it. The days of having a "pure PG" are mostly over. PG's are "combo guards" now. They don't need to be pass-first, they merely need enough playmaking skills to run pick-and-roll, and they need to have the one-on-one scoring skills to score effectively against a switch. I think Jase will be fine on both. Indeed, I think he'll be a very good playmaker because he does such a good job of avoiding turnovers.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not pounding the table to draft him, and I seriously doubt I would take him at #6. I'm just saying I like him more than Fears, Jakuciounis and Demin.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1874 » by dobrojim » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:07 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:I have Jase Richardson firmly above Jeremiah Fears on my board. At #6, I'm fine if they choose to go big (Maluach) or high upside (Essengue) or even a can't-miss role player (Bryant), but if they draft a shot-creating guard, I want Richardson, not Fears.

Agree entirely -- & that's also what the numbers say.


How likely is it that Fears or Jase will be better than AJJ?

Yes I just violated the BPA vs fit rule. How well can a
team develop multiple players at the same position?
Perhaps the usual answer, it'll work itself out in time,
will apply.

You are the position you defend in today's NBA.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1875 » by AFM » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:09 pm

Fears is who I would target if I wanted to set the rebuild back a few years. Guy shoots 20% off the dribble from 3. 28% overall. Well, that’s okay, he can add that to his game later. He’s more of a slasher, look at his and 1 mixtape handle.
Oh wait. He shot 50% at the rim.

Dude is a walking brick.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1876 » by AFM » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:11 pm

To put it in WizD terms, dude is NOT an engine. He’s more like an ant walking on a treadmill attached to a generator.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1877 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:16 pm

Gig18 wrote:Haven't been here in a long time. But the draft stirs passions and old memories. Gotta say, right now, two guys who look like they have superpowers are Maluach and Fears. I'm an old guy. Fears reminds me a little bit of Rod Strickland; Maluach LOOKS like he could develop as a shooter. Geez, a 7 foot, impossible-reach, rim-running, defensive-player-of-the-year type. Sounds good.
But I also wanted to ask; why no love for Kneuppel. I know he's below the rim.
But gosh, last year a lot of this board was falling all over themselves in love with Reed Sheppard, who was small for a PG! Kneuppel is at least 6-5 and 219 pounds. Smart as hell, good passer and reallllly good shooter. We're pretty bad offensively.
What if he's Chris Mullins?
By the way, he's reminscent of an old 2 time allstar Bullet and Duke player--- Jack Marin.

Sheppard averaged 3 steals and a 1 block per 36 minutes and has a 42" vertical leap. He is way more athletic than Knueppel and I think he'll pan out to be a solid, albeit non-switchable defender. I worry more about Kneuppel's position on defense. He's too short to guard forwards and too slow to guard wings.

Also, while Kneuppel is an excellent shooter, nobody in recent memory was as good of a shooter as Sheppard. The guy shot 52% from 3-point range!

Finally, I really felt that Sheppard has the ability to be a true PG in the Mark Price mold, but simply didn't get a chance to do it often because he had to share PG duties with Dillingham. In a handful of games when Kentucky just turned over all the PG duties to Sheppard, he was excellent, posting double-digit assists a couple of times. Kneuppel is more of an off-ball player (though he can run some PnR too). I question whether an off-ball offensive player will have enough touches on offense to offset his likely sub-par defense at the other end of the floor.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1878 » by TheBlackCzar » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:17 pm

AFM wrote:Fears is who I would target if I wanted to set the rebuild back a few years. Guy shoots 20% off the dribble from 3. 28% overall. Well, that’s okay, he can add that to his game later. He’s more of a slasher, look at his and 1 mixtape handle.
Oh wait. He shot 50% at the rim.

Dude is a walking brick.



36% spot up 3.....
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1879 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:19 pm

dobrojim wrote:
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:I have Jase Richardson firmly above Jeremiah Fears on my board. At #6, I'm fine if they choose to go big (Maluach) or high upside (Essengue) or even a can't-miss role player (Bryant), but if they draft a shot-creating guard, I want Richardson, not Fears.

Agree entirely -- & that's also what the numbers say.


How likely is it that Fears or Jase will be better than AJJ?

Yes I just violated the BPA vs fit rule. How well can a
team develop multiple players at the same position?
Perhaps the usual answer, it'll work itself out in time,
will apply.

You are the position you defend in today's NBA.

Fair point. If they draft Jase, they must really believe that neither Bub or AJ have the "juice" to be the primary ball handler at the 1. I think it's a little early to make that call since they are both so young.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1880 » by AFM » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:29 pm

nate33 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
payitforward wrote:Agree entirely -- & that's also what the numbers say.


How likely is it that Fears or Jase will be better than AJJ?

Yes I just violated the BPA vs fit rule. How well can a
team develop multiple players at the same position?
Perhaps the usual answer, it'll work itself out in time,
will apply.

You are the position you defend in today's NBA.

Fair point. If they draft Jase, they must really believe that neither Bub or AJ have the "juice" to be the primary ball handler at the 1. I think it's a little early to make that call since they are both so young.


It would be Karma for Bub. Dudes ball handling (pause) and trick shot at the buzzer is why we’re picking 6th to begin with.

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