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Otto Porter

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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1881 » by 80sballboy » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:52 pm

FAH1223 wrote:The fact that Webster is playing over Otto is just coaching incompetence.

Otto is the better player. I feel for the kid. He can't develop here under this regime and young players make mistakes all the time. But this coach refuses to put him in positions to succeed and progress.

Porter is best served playing in the starting lineup, the Wizards do have a decent record when he starts. Pierce is best served as a stretch PF or the 6th man.


Doesn't Webster have some incentive in his contract about amount of games played? Witt is trying some stupid mind game sh-t with Otto. He loves the way Webster goes after it, but it doesn't translate into points or stops. Otto does a lot of the little things due to his length but is not a super-intense guy. Forget the #3 pick. Can he help you win games? Sure. Is he better than Webster? Emmanuel Lewis is better than Webster. Is Porter a bit soft? Sure. Wittman is old school and as usual, goes for the veteran over the youngster.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1882 » by FAH1223 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:10 am

80sballboy wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:The fact that Webster is playing over Otto is just coaching incompetence.

Otto is the better player. I feel for the kid. He can't develop here under this regime and young players make mistakes all the time. But this coach refuses to put him in positions to succeed and progress.

Porter is best served playing in the starting lineup, the Wizards do have a decent record when he starts. Pierce is best served as a stretch PF or the 6th man.


Doesn't Webster have some incentive in his contract about amount of games played? Witt is trying some stupid mind game sh-t with Otto. He loves the way Webster goes after it, but it doesn't translate into points or stops. Otto does a lot of the little things due to his length but is not a super-intense guy. Forget the #3 pick. Can he help you win games? Sure. Is he better than Webster? Emmanuel Lewis is better than Webster. Is Porter a bit soft? Sure. Wittman is old school and as usual, goes for the veteran over the youngster.


But there's something that can happen with a young player... they can get better. It's a concept Wittman doesn't understand.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1883 » by 80sballboy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:15 am

FAH1223 wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:The fact that Webster is playing over Otto is just coaching incompetence.

Otto is the better player. I feel for the kid. He can't develop here under this regime and young players make mistakes all the time. But this coach refuses to put him in positions to succeed and progress.

Porter is best served playing in the starting lineup, the Wizards do have a decent record when he starts. Pierce is best served as a stretch PF or the 6th man.


Doesn't Webster have some incentive in his contract about amount of games played? Witt is trying some stupid mind game sh-t with Otto. He loves the way Webster goes after it, but it doesn't translate into points or stops. Otto does a lot of the little things due to his length but is not a super-intense guy. Forget the #3 pick. Can he help you win games? Sure. Is he better than Webster? Emmanuel Lewis is better than Webster. Is Porter a bit soft? Sure. Wittman is old school and as usual, goes for the veteran over the youngster.


But there's something that can happen with a young player... they can get better. It's a concept Wittman doesn't understand.


I would never play Webster over anybody. I just don't get the love for Otto. He shows no inclination that he wants to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. He's still very thin and at least Tashaun Prince can consistently make jumpers. Not giving up just not impressed that he's more than 15 minute per game role player.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1884 » by FAH1223 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:19 am

80sballboy wrote:
I would never play Webster over anybody. I just don't get the love for Otto. He shows no inclination that he wants to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. He's still very thin and at least Tashaun Prince can consistently make jumpers. Not giving up just not impressed that he's more than 15 minute per game role player.


i KNOW it was only summer league but Otto was putting it on the floor and getting to the line then

He started off that way this season too

I really think he plays scared of Wittman because all Wittman is telling him to do is stand in the corner and boxing him into the horrible offense.

Otto's a fantastic cutter and mover without the ball, his handles are better than one would think too.

I bet if Steve Kerr was here he'd start Otto and build his confidence like he's doing with Harrison Barnes (who I don't like too well).
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1885 » by hands11 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:22 am

80sballboy wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:The fact that Webster is playing over Otto is just coaching incompetence.

Otto is the better player. I feel for the kid. He can't develop here under this regime and young players make mistakes all the time. But this coach refuses to put him in positions to succeed and progress.

Porter is best served playing in the starting lineup, the Wizards do have a decent record when he starts. Pierce is best served as a stretch PF or the 6th man.


Doesn't Webster have some incentive in his contract about amount of games played? Witt is trying some stupid mind game sh-t with Otto. He loves the way Webster goes after it, but it doesn't translate into points or stops. Otto does a lot of the little things due to his length but is not a super-intense guy. Forget the #3 pick. Can he help you win games? Sure. Is he better than Webster? Emmanuel Lewis is better than Webster. Is Porter a bit soft? Sure. Wittman is old school and as usual, goes for the veteran over the youngster.


Otto needed to step it up when he had the clear shot to prove himself. He had a window. That's why I pointed it out at the time. Players were returning and then it was going to be onto the playoff race.

This is not the Lakers, NY, PHI or any of those other tanking teams. This team is trying to get something done this year. Otto was a red shirt freshmen here. Not a rookie. In a situation like this, when you get your chance, you have to bring it. And with PP just added this year, he needed to really bring it.

I like Otto. I hope he gets a fire in his belly. I know its not easy for him to find his spot on this team because of who he is, his age and the players around him. Think about it in terms of Barnes on the Warriors. Only Barnes started 82 games his first year at 25.4 mins a game instead of Otto who was injured.

In Barnes 2nd year, he only started 24 games but still played 28.3 mins. This was in part because they added Iggy. Kind of like us add PP.

Now in year 3, he is starting again and getting 28.7 mins.

2012/13 in his first year, GSW were 47-35. Thats close to the Otto first year injured on the Wizards. 44 wins.

Otto needs to step it up. But he also needs some time. He was drafted to a team with TA and Webster and he was injured. This year, they added PP who Randy has not moved to the bench for Otto which is understandable. Tough at PPs age, there were ops to do it. When GSW added Iggy, Barnes was moved to the bench in his 2nd year, though he still played. Barnes is starting again year 3 with Iggy off the bench.

So that would be next year for the Wizards. Otto starts. PP comes off the bench. That's if PP stays.

Not an exact comparison, but close enough.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1886 » by 80sballboy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:45 am

FAH1223 wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
I would never play Webster over anybody. I just don't get the love for Otto. He shows no inclination that he wants to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. He's still very thin and at least Tashaun Prince can consistently make jumpers. Not giving up just not impressed that he's more than 15 minute per game role player.


i KNOW it was only summer league but Otto was putting it on the floor and getting to the line then

He started off that way this season too

I really think he plays scared of Wittman because all Wittman is telling him to do is stand in the corner and boxing him into the horrible offense.

Otto's a fantastic cutter and mover without the ball, his handles are better than one would think too.

I bet if Steve Kerr was here he'd start Otto and build his confidence like he's doing with Harrison Barnes (who I don't like too well).


I like watching Summer League but take it with a grain of salt. Nobody plays defense. Just like the D-League. Nobody defends, which is why most of those players end up there. It's a lot of open floor action, which is why Vesely looked dexcent. Sure, maybe he'd play better with Wall, Sessions and now Bynum, who can all push it, unlike Miller. But it's not like he didn't play in a structured system. Georgetown was all about moving without the ball and they didn't run a ton. But watch him when he was getting regular backup minutes at the 2/3. He would do nothing offensively for 10 minutes. Just standing there and acting like he didn't want the ball ala Jake Layman. I think he's about 10 pounds away from being a player.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1887 » by hands11 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:58 am

80sballboy wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
I would never play Webster over anybody. I just don't get the love for Otto. He shows no inclination that he wants to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. He's still very thin and at least Tashaun Prince can consistently make jumpers. Not giving up just not impressed that he's more than 15 minute per game role player.


i KNOW it was only summer league but Otto was putting it on the floor and getting to the line then

He started off that way this season too

I really think he plays scared of Wittman because all Wittman is telling him to do is stand in the corner and boxing him into the horrible offense.

Otto's a fantastic cutter and mover without the ball, his handles are better than one would think too.

I bet if Steve Kerr was here he'd start Otto and build his confidence like he's doing with Harrison Barnes (who I don't like too well).


I like watching Summer League but take it with a grain of salt. Nobody plays defense. Just like the D-League. Nobody defends, which is why most of those players end up there. It's a lot of open floor action, which is why Vesely looked dexcent. Sure, maybe he'd play better with Wall, Sessions and now Bynum, who can all push it, unlike Miller. But it's not like he didn't play in a structured system. Georgetown was all about moving without the ball and they didn't run a ton. But watch him when he was getting regular backup minutes at the 2/3. He would do nothing offensively for 10 minutes. Just standing there and acting like he didn't want the ball ala Jake Layman. I think he's about 10 pounds away from being a player.


He was the best player on that GT team and they ran an offense with him at FTL ala M Gasol. He touched the ball at least 2 times every possession.

Totally different situation.

And its not like Randy has any kind of motion offense for him to plug into if Nene is out there. Even getting spot up 3s isn't something we do this year. Not like they did last year.

Otto will be better next year when we get a new coach and he gets another summer to get stronger and work on his game.

Or

If Randy goes to the bathroom for a long constitutional during the game and just lets Wall do whatever he wants. I have more faith in a pure Wall run offense without Randy influence calling plays then anything that happens with Randy courtside or with Nene in the game.

Wall, Beal, Otto, Gooden, Gortat with Randy in the bathroom. I think that could work for Otto. I could see all 4 of those players putting Otto on their back for a game and just feeding him so he could get going. In between, Wall drives, Beal 3s, Gortat PnR and Goooooden stretching the floor.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1888 » by gambitx777 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:16 am

hands11 wrote:
He was the best player on that GT team and they ran an offense with him at FTL ala M Gasol. He touched the ball at least 2 times every possession.

Totally different situation.

And its not like Randy has any kind of motion offense for him to plug into if Nene is out there. Even getting spot up 3s isn't something we do this year. Not like they did last year.

Otto will be better next year when we get a new coach and he gets another summer to get stronger and work on his game.

Or

If Randy goes to the bathroom for a long constitutional during the game and just lets Wall do whatever he wants. I have more faith in a pure Wall run offense without Randy influence calling plays then anything that happens with Randy courtside or with Nene in the game.

Wall, Beal, Otto, Gooden, Gortat with Randy in the bathroom. I think that could work for Otto. I could see all 4 of those players putting Otto on their back for a game and just feeding him so he could get going. In between, Wall drives, Beal 3s, Gortat PnR and Goooooden stretching the floor.

Can we have someone weld the door shut for the entire game and jam his cell phone so he can't call for help! That way every one can see how good this team would be without Wittman.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1889 » by Dat2U » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:01 pm

80sballboy wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
Doesn't Webster have some incentive in his contract about amount of games played? Witt is trying some stupid mind game sh-t with Otto. He loves the way Webster goes after it, but it doesn't translate into points or stops. Otto does a lot of the little things due to his length but is not a super-intense guy. Forget the #3 pick. Can he help you win games? Sure. Is he better than Webster? Emmanuel Lewis is better than Webster. Is Porter a bit soft? Sure. Wittman is old school and as usual, goes for the veteran over the youngster.


But there's something that can happen with a young player... they can get better. It's a concept Wittman doesn't understand.


I would never play Webster over anybody. I just don't get the love for Otto. He shows no inclination that he wants to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. He's still very thin and at least Tashaun Prince can consistently make jumpers. Not giving up just not impressed that he's more than 15 minute per game role player.


If Otto did a whole bunch of dribbling he'd probably piss the coaching staff off because that's not what he's being asked to do. They want him to stand on the wing and be a spot up shooter. Not sure why you'd draft someone with the 3rd pick if that was their intent but sometimes I wonder does any one in the coaching staff or front office actually pays attention to player's strengths and weaknesses and how their actually being used.

I'm confident had we drafted Noel we'd be questioning his development too. I'm not even sure Noel doesn't get stuck behind Seraphin in the rotation due to the coaching staff overvaluing Seraphin's post game.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1890 » by The Consiglieri » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:47 pm

Valid point, I'm sure the drafting has been wretched as expected, but what might have happened to Seraphin, Beal, or Porter, if they'd been drafted by San Antonio, or Golden State, or Houston, or OKC etc? Like the Snyder-Redskins, this organization has an awful stench of incompetence about it, and it's very hard to root out that kind of issue effectively. It's also one of the reasons why I always felt guys like Aaron Rodgers, who inexplicably fall on draft day, should often be happy. Being drafted by a quality organization sets you up for a great 2nd, and 3rd contract, being drafted by a bad organization can derail your entire career, or set you up for a bad second contract based on poor performance early on.

Porter, like Beal, is not playing his way to a nice second contract, and how much of that is on the organization, and how much is on the player is very much open to interpretation. I'm hard pressed to imagine there were many situations that could have been worse for Porter to end up in unfortunately. Didn't think that at the time, but I also didn't realize what we do w/regards to Webster, or the veterans only hack coach we'd go all in with.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1891 » by fishercob » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:24 pm

15 points on 7 FGA, 6 boards, a steal and a single turnover in 18 minutes.

Seriously, f*ck Randy Wittman for burying this kid.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1892 » by Illmatic12 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:39 pm

FO needs to step in and mandate that Porter plays over Webster.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1893 » by FAH1223 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:03 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jorgeccastillo/status/582285861020176384[/tweet]
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1894 » by Ruzious » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:37 pm

It takes Pierce being on the worst streak of his entire career (he hasn't topped 7 points in the last 6 games) and Webster shooting 23.7%... for the season... yes, 23.7% for the season... to get Otto 17 minutes of playing time.

Has anyone in the NBA put up worse numbers than Webster this season?

What happens if Otto doesn't get significant PT next game? Wittman has to answer for this.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1895 » by payitforward » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:09 pm

Porter had a tremendous game, really. If you consider what he got done in 18 minutes especially. He should start every game, and he should be getting 25-30 minutes.

It's fair to blame Wittman -- no doubt. At the same time, Wittman can't be expected to fire himself, and he doesn't have the power to fire Ernie Grunfeld. And he doesn't have the authority to change a strategy to trade the future for a (smaller and smaller looking) bowl of porridge right now.

In other words -- the blame lies with Ernie. And with Ted for, apparently, viewing Ernie's work with favor -- no doubt because it somehow fulfills Ted's hunger for that bowl of porridge.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1896 » by nuposse04 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:18 pm

payitforward wrote:Porter had a tremendous game, really. If you consider what he got done in 18 minutes especially. He should start every game, and he should be getting 25-30 minutes.

It's fair to blame Wittman -- no doubt. At the same time, Wittman can't be expected to fire himself, and he doesn't have the power to fire Ernie Grunfeld. And he doesn't have the authority to change a strategy to trade the future for a (smaller and smaller looking) bowl of porridge right now.

In other words -- the blame lies with Ernie. And with Ted for, apparently, viewing Ernie's work with favor -- no doubt because it somehow fulfills Ted's hunger for that bowl of porridge.


The front office and Ted should have put a mandate on Randy to play Porter irrespective to whether the team wins or loses. Ironically, Randy feels he is fighting for his job so he has to NOT play Porter. Not playing Porter stubbornly should have elicited a meeting between the three. Outside of that dynamic however, not playing Porter solely rests on Randy and he deserves most of the blame. EG is responsible for big picture suckiness of our current woes, but this dynamic between Porter and Randy isn't really something you can directly blame EG for...Randy trusts veterans too much.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1897 » by hands11 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:29 am

The Consiglieri wrote:Valid point, I'm sure the drafting has been wretched as expected, but what might have happened to Seraphin, Beal, or Porter, if they'd been drafted by San Antonio, or Golden State, or Houston, or OKC etc? Like the Snyder-Redskins, this organization has an awful stench of incompetence about it, and it's very hard to root out that kind of issue effectively. It's also one of the reasons why I always felt guys like Aaron Rodgers, who inexplicably fall on draft day, should often be happy. Being drafted by a quality organization sets you up for a great 2nd, and 3rd contract, being drafted by a bad organization can derail your entire career, or set you up for a bad second contract based on poor performance early on.

Porter, like Beal, is not playing his way to a nice second contract, and how much of that is on the organization, and how much is on the player is very much open to interpretation. I'm hard pressed to imagine there were many situations that could have been worse for Porter to end up in unfortunately. Didn't think that at the time, but I also didn't realize what we do w/regards to Webster, or the veterans only hack coach we'd go all in with.


DAT and You are on point.

Does anyone pay attention to what these players actually do well when they draft them ? That should apply to everyone Randy has coached.

But to blame it on Webster ? Dude has only gotten spot mins over the last 5 games and that only happen because Otto was wasn't getting it done. And like 3 Shaqing a fools over a short time period.

Now you can argue, Webster should never be in if you could put Otto in. That would have given Otto a few more minutes, but its not a core of the issue. Actually not even close.

Look at the game log. Otto has played a lot more then people might remember.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2594922/otto-porter-jr

65 games at a 18.1 min average.

Its not like he has been riding the pines all year. The bigger problem was him not having enough impact on the court over multiple games. And he was clanking 3s. No doubt the crap offense doesn't help.

There is a lot to blame on Randy. But its not like Otto hasn't gotten minutes.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1898 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:55 am

Well, the blame on Webster goes to EG - it was a bad signing pure and simple - they knew about the back injuries.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1899 » by DCZards » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:18 am

hands11 wrote:But to blame it on Webster ? Dude has only gotten spot mins over the last 5 games and that only happen because Otto was wasn't getting it done. And like 3 Shaqing a fools over a short time period.

Now you can argue, Webster should never be in if you could put Otto in. That would have given Otto a few more minutes, but its not a core of the issue. Actually not even close.

Look at the game log. Otto has played a lot more then people might remember.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2594922/otto-porter-jr

65 games at a 18.1 min average.

Its not like he has been riding the pines all year. The bigger problem was him not having enough impact on the court over multiple games. And he was clanking 3s. No doubt the crap offense doesn't help.

There is a lot to blame on Randy. But its not like Otto hasn't gotten minutes.


Porter’s inconsistency this season doesn’t surprise me…nor does it really disappointment me. As you pointed out, he’s basically a redshirt freshman.

But what has made matters much worse is that there seems to be no rhyme or reason on Randy’s part as to when Porter will get minutes…or when he even gets off the bench at all. I don’t think it’s fair to expect consistent play out of Otto with that kind of inconsistency on the part of the coach.

Witt should be letting Porter play through his clanking of 3s, his Shaqing a fools and what you call his "not having enough impact on the court." Playing regularly is the only way the kid is going to learn and develop and get beyond his mental lapses and other mistakes. It’s not like Webster or Butler have been great options off the bench.

Heck, Otto made more 3s today than Webster has made in the past month.
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Re: Otto Porter 

Post#1900 » by The Consiglieri » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:32 am

I would point to bill belichek. This is also one of the reasons I hated the Jay Gruden hire, and loved Gibbs so much too. It's fairly straight forward, great coaches are flexible and adapt their strategic approach and tactics to the talent they have available. There are guys like Walsh, and Mourinho, and Lombardi, and Phil Jackson etc, guys with a system who've won everywhere they've coached. They've earned the right to be stubborn and because they typically stick around long term, or have the ability to quickly rearrange a roster (in soccer you can always loan out guys, or transfer them if they don't fit your system, you're rarely saddled with bad contracts in the way you would be in American sports), and as a result their "system" based approach works.

However, the very best coaches are those coaches that see what they have, and then build a system that fits the talent around them. Bellichek has run a defense first, running patriots team to super bowls, he created an offensive powerhouse in 2007, he created a brand new TE focal point attack in 2010-2012, and then built a more flex based attack in 2014, and flipped the script entirely in early october this past falls.

Think about Gibbs from 1981-1992, there were really three different redskins teams in those years, early on when his pass catching tools were weak, but he had a great offensive line, and elite veteran runner, he built the offense around them and the defensive ability to shut down opponents, when the secondary fell apart in 1983, but Monk was healthy again and Brown was at the peak of his powers, he built his attack around a flexibile 50/50 approach with plenty of passing and running, by '84-'85 the running game collapsed, and the teams performance slowly failed too, however mining the USFL for talent as it collapsed brought in an elite WR in Clark, and perhaps the best #3 in the league in Sanders, so by 1987, he'd put the running game on the back burner again, and asked Jay and Doug to throw the ball a lot more, but he switched again by 1989 when he acquired Riggs, and Byner to play a kind of reshuffled version of Riggins/Rogers, and Kelvin Bryant, utilizing the posse and the tailbacks in equal measure with a deep passing game to utilize Rypiens deep passing game.

Great coaches either have a system that flat out works, or have a fundamental ability to identify the strengths of their players, and create a system that fits that roster best.

The worst coaches are the guys who have their system, and stick to it, regardless of results, even when it doesn't utilize the roster's talent effectively. That's what we've got with regards to Wittman, and Gruden, and Trotz. It's common no doubt, but the great coaches produce results consistently either with their system, or show the flexibility of a Bellichek or Gibbs etc to win with any system.

I think the greatest problem with coaches today is ego: far too many believe in their system far more than in their scouting departments, and as a result, force system's on players that don't fit the rosters talent and skill base at all. Needless to say, that problem is present here today in spades, on all of our teams save the Nationals (not coincidentally, the best run organization, best roster, and most competitive side in D.C. alongside DC United).

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