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Political Roundtable Part IX

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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1881 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Start by getting rid of the preferential capital gains tax rates for the wealthy.

I'd be okay with this, provided that business taxes were reduced to zero. The issue is double taxation. Business pay taxes on their profits, and then shareholders pay an additional tax on capital gains.

I think the elimination of business taxes coupled with treating capital gains as income would be ideal. Low business taxes would attract more physical business in our country and thus create jobs. Meanwhile, treating capital gains as income would shift the burden of taxes more toward the ultra rich and less toward the middle class. That said, there are probably reasons why this isn't quite as simple as it sounds. No matter the type of tax, there are methods of evading them and as tax rates go up, the incentive to evade them increases.

We disagree. If you think it through, almost ALL taxable income has been taxed more than once, so the double taxation complaint doesn't work.

Wait - you are endorsing double taxation. Smh. That gets you to where we are today. You can literally tax business out of this country. Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeee, reconsider that position.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1882 » by Ruzious » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd be okay with this, provided that business taxes were reduced to zero. The issue is double taxation. Business pay taxes on their profits, and then shareholders pay an additional tax on capital gains.

I think the elimination of business taxes coupled with treating capital gains as income would be ideal. Low business taxes would attract more physical business in our country and thus create jobs. Meanwhile, treating capital gains as income would shift the burden of taxes more toward the ultra rich and less toward the middle class. That said, there are probably reasons why this isn't quite as simple as it sounds. No matter the type of tax, there are methods of evading them and as tax rates go up, the incentive to evade them increases.

We disagree. If you think it through, almost ALL taxable income has been taxed more than once, so the double taxation complaint doesn't work.

Wait - you are endorsing double taxation. Smh. That gets you to where we are today. You can literally tax business out of this country. Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeee, reconsider that position.

No. Income is income. A gain on selling a stock is income. Period. I'm not going to get dragged any further into this discussion.

Edit - I might buy into your argument ONLY on corporate dividends - but not on capital gains - and I was talking about capital gains; not dividends.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1883 » by DCZards » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:09 pm

bgroban wrote:
Where has Hillary demonstrated any semblance of patriotism? Do you really buy the pandering that's been happening the last few days? She scares me 10x more than Barry ever did.


You can start with her leading the fight 20 years ago for children's healthcare, which has resulted in healthcare coverage for some 8 million American children. That's pretty damn patriotic in my opinion.

btw, while Hillary was doing that Trump was stiffing the small businesses (American companies) that helped him build his casino in Atlantic City.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1884 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:16 pm

You guys are boring. Ask me more economics questions!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1885 » by DCZards » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:19 pm

nate33 wrote:
Obama is the one big weapon for Hillary. The question is, can he motivate blacks to go out and vote for Hillary in the same numbers that they voted for him? Maybe the Democrats can whip up some more anti-police riots and really get 'em charged up. But that could backfire with the rest of the public.


Dems don't need to (as you cynically suggest) "whip up some anti-police riots" to get blacks (or young people and others) to turn out big in November. All they need is for Donald Trump to keep opening his mouth. That's the Dems best get-out-the-vote tool.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1886 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:We disagree. If you think it through, almost ALL taxable income has been taxed more than once, so the double taxation complaint doesn't work.

Wait - you are endorsing double taxation. Smh. That gets you to where we are today. You can literally tax business out of this country. Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeee, reconsider that position.

No. Income is income. A gain on selling a stock is income. Period. I'm not going to get dragged any further into this discussion.

Okay - this isn't to you Ruzious.

Let's make the assumption that tax rates matter for attracting businesses:
http://taxfoundation.org/location-matters/location-matters-2015.pdf
and scientists:
http://www.nber.org/digest/jun15/w21024.html

Let's say you are a scientist that wants to start a corporation in Maryland.

Let's say you set up a Federal corporate tax of 40%
Then lets say you set up an income tax with no deductions of 40%
And of course you have your 9% Maryland Tax

You consider that you will make $200K the first year. After Federal corporate taxes you are down to 120K. After income taxes you would be down to $72. After state taxes you would be down to $61. And that is before you pay your property and other taxes.

That is why there are so many carveouts. And that is why those that put tax policy in place avoid double taxation.

And that is why others (not Ruzious) should consider why we don't want double taxation and why we need a simpler tax code.

And, we need to look at our spending both on a Federal level and local level. Because at the rate we are going - we can tax those evil 1 percenters 110% of all their income and we still won't be able to balance our budget.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1887 » by closg00 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:42 pm

Trump is such a emotionally stunted man-child, his main concern last night was to implore his followers not watch HRC speech. DNV viewership was about 15% higher than the Repubs convention through Wednesday.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1888 » by Ruzious » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:54 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Wait - you are endorsing double taxation. Smh. That gets you to where we are today. You can literally tax business out of this country. Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeee, reconsider that position.

No. Income is income. A gain on selling a stock is income. Period. I'm not going to get dragged any further into this discussion.

Okay - this isn't to you Ruzious.

Let's make the assumption that tax rates matter for attracting businesses:
http://taxfoundation.org/location-matters/location-matters-2015.pdf
and scientists:
http://www.nber.org/digest/jun15/w21024.html

Let's say you are a scientist that wants to start a corporation in Maryland.

Let's say you set up a Federal corporate tax of 40%
Then lets say you set up an income tax with no deductions of 40%
And of course you have your 9% Maryland Tax

You consider that you will make $200K the first year. After Federal corporate taxes you are down to 120K. After income taxes you would be down to $72. After state taxes you would be down to $61. And that is before you pay your property and other taxes.

That is why there are so many carveouts. And that is why those that put tax policy in place avoid double taxation.

And that is why others (not Ruzious) should consider why we don't want double taxation and why we need a simpler tax code.

And, we need to look at our spending both on a Federal level and local level. Because at the rate we are going - we can tax those evil 1 percenters 110% of all their income and we still won't be able to balance our budget.

Good. Then I don't have to tell you that you should never prepare a corporation income tax return.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1889 » by Induveca » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:00 pm

Maybe I just missed it, but really odd this has gotten near zero press.

A DNC data director (who directly had admin access to all SQL databases at the DNC) was murdered in NW DC. Nothing was taken from his body, zero clues...no arrests.

Bizarre, obviously a coincidence.....shocked FoxNews hasn't spun this in some horrible way. Reddit conspiracy types are freaking out.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1890 » by Wizardspride » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:15 pm

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1891 » by Doug_Blew » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:17 pm

A scientist could open an S corp and not pay corporate taxes.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1892 » by Doug_Blew » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:22 pm

In addition that scientist
Could contribute 25 percent of his income plus 18k to a self employed iRA which is tax free. There are many tax breaks for corporations.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1893 » by Doug_Blew » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:31 pm

And you shouldn't take 40 percent off of the total amount. Taxes are bracketed. Also an individual individual making 120k is not in the 40 percent bracket.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1894 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:25 pm

Actually, that is my point - that is why there are carveouts. It would be insane to double tax AND not have carveouts. That is why our tax system is flawed :)

My post was in response to: ..."We disagree. If you think it through, almost ALL taxable income has been taxed more than once, so the double taxation complaint doesn't work."

I gave an extreme example (where the deductions didn't exist) to elucidate why the double taxation IS an issue and why the carveouts/deductions are there today.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1895 » by TGW » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:34 pm

Looks like neocon, war-happy republicans are voting for and financially backing Hillary.

Just freakin pa-the-tic and downright scary. I'm honestly considering voting for Trump. He'll be the most embarrassing president in US history next to Geroge Dubya, but at least he won't get thousands, if not millions, of people killed.


https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1896 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:44 pm

TGW wrote:Looks like neocon, war-happy republicans are voting for and financially backing Hillary.

Just freakin pa-the-tic and downright scary. I'm honestly considering voting for Trump. He'll be the most embarrassing president in US history next to Geroge Dubya, but at least he won't get thousands, if not millions, of people killed.


https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/

It really is scary to see the warmongers unite behind one candidate. At least in the past, the Democrat war mongers were checked by Republicans who reflexively insisted that everything Democrats wanted was wrong - and vice versa. If all the warmongers are on the same side and in power, there will be no end to the foreign intervention.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1897 » by Wizardspride » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:50 pm

Read on Twitter






Read on Twitter





Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1898 » by Kanyewest » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:11 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:You guys are boring. Ask me more economics questions!

Were the auto bailouts good for the American economy? What were the pros/cons. The US had GM stock so they earned back around $40 billion from stocks but someone on my Facebook feed is claiming that GM paid fairly low taxes so therefore it is not worth it.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1899 » by tontoz » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:23 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter






Read on Twitter





Read on Twitter



You need to look on the bright side. At least they didn't kill anyone.
Thank God we didn't draft the Fat Matador.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part IX 

Post#1900 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:55 pm

I came across this article today. It was really an eye-opener:

There’s more than just jingoistic hysteria behind the many accusations that Trump is “Putin’s agent.” In a poetic way, this is true. The international interests that financially wrecked Russia in the ’90s are doing the same to the United States now. Putin stopped them in Russia and Trump is promising to stop them in America. They recognize Trump as the enemy and slander in the only style they know—the paranoid style.

Trump was once blamed for praising Putin’s performance. But he was right. Pensions, salaries, GDP, and the value of gold reserves in Russia have risen greatly since 1999—in some cases tenfold or more. This was while both inflation and the debt-to-GDP ratio declined by orders of magnitude. The rise in living standard under Putin is reflected in longer life expectancy: It had dropped to a third-world level during the 1990s, to around 55–57, and has now risen back up to 70 by most measures. Birthrates have normalized and recently overtaken the United States. Visit Moscow and you will see infrastructure, buildings, and development that are more impressive than those found in any American city—though the same could be said, of course, for many other countries now.

By contrast, Russians remember the liberal and globalist experiment of the ’90s as a time of great suffering. The early death of literally millions of people from economic deprivation, the utter ruin of many of Russia’s formerly world-class industries: This is the legacy of economic liberalization in Russia. How did it happen?


Putin has somehow become known as the incarnation of evil in the world today. This is because globalists run the media and they want to discredit nationalism. In reality, Putin's nationalist regime has done a remarkable job in turning Russia around - at least economically. I did some personal research to verify this article. Here's what I found. (Note that Putin took over in 1999):

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(Lower is more corrupt. Higher is less corrupt.)


Life Expectancy at Year of Birth
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Sometimes you need to research these issues before believing everything the media has spoon-fed you. The media is dishonest and they have an agenda. Don't ever forget it.

The actual data pretty clearly shows that Putin's nationalist regime has been very good for Russia. Certainly, the situation in Russia in 1999 is different than the situation in America in 2016; but clearly, this idea that nationalism is universally a failed economic strategy is hogwash. It might not be good for international bankers, but it has proven to be quite effective for at least one nation in recent history. There is reason to believe that it could be good for the U.S.

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