Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[Ruzious]

I hate to "well actually" you (well, actually, no I don't -- see, I did it to myself!), but Beal actually isn't "very good" as a catch and shoot guy. At least not last season. Among players with at least 100 catch-and-shoot attempts last season, he ranked 81st with an efg of .552 -- about the same as Wall's .554, and not quite as good as Porter's .560. Thirty players had a catch-and-shoot efg of 60% or better. Two guys (Teague and Curry) were above 70% (well, three if you want to include Troy Daniels, who played just 476 minutes last season).

With Teague being that good a catch and shoot guy, I wonder how he'd do as a 2 playing with Wall. There are rumors that he's being shopped. And Atl might be a team that would really like Beal - he showed a lot of ability against them in a previous playoff series. Sign and trade Beal for Teague. Teague is a FA in 2017, so that's another reason Atl might be looking to take what they can get for him. Wall and Teague together... and a 3 guard set with Sato... fascinating.

Who's gonna guard bigger guards in that lineup? Porter?

EDIT: He's 138 for 333 on C&S jumpers over his last three seasons on 60.81 eFG%. That's 1.4 attempts per game. I don't think he would work that well as a spot-up shooter given that his jumpshot isn't that great (36.4 % from midrange on 2 fga/g; 36.1 % from 3 on 3 fga/g). Isn't Teague's greatest strength his drive to the basket?

Wall. He's actually got a 1.25 inch longer wingspan than Beal - not to mention his leaping ability. With Sato being the 3rd guard, if there are problem matchups with bigger guards, he can help. And Oubre might play some guard - talk about length.

Teague was a so-so at best catch and shoot player at Wake, but players evolve. If he had a catch and shoot efg over 70%, that's an indication he's evolving. And one of Wall's complaints the last couple of years is he hasn't had a player who can create to play with, so Teague's ability to drive would be more than welcome. Ramon Sessions has been THE only teammate who could drive to the basket with any consistency - and he's a limited player... and a free agent. Usually, talented players find ways to play efficiently with each other.

[payitforward]

For discussion:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/740957858607431680[/tweet]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are thinking -- to me that's just an absolutely terrible trade.

Darrell Arthur is a vet minimum type player; Gallinari is past his prime; Nurkic has a shot to be quite a good player, but he's done nothing yet. For that matter, Porter has an even better shot to be an even better player.

edit: on top of which you think Denver would need more to do this trade? Wow! I think it'd be a dream come true for them!

[Ruzious]

For discussion:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/740957858607431680[/tweet]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are thinking -- to me that's just an absolutely terrible trade.

Darrell Arthur is a vet minimum type player; Gallinari is past his prime; Nurkic has a shot to be quite a good player, but he's done nothing yet. For that matter, Porter has an even better shot to be an even better player.

edit: on top of which you think Denver would need more to do this trade? Wow! I think it'd be a dream come true for them!

I probably wouldn't do that trade, but saying it's because Gallinari is past his prime doesn't ring true. He's 27 - 4 or 5 years younger than Gortat - and coming off the most productive (though not most efficient) year of his NBA career. If he's past his prime, what is Gortat? Nurkic is a heckuva scoring talent, but he turns the ball over way too much and has a terrible fouling problem.

[payitforward]

For discussion:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/740957858607431680[/tweet]

Sorry, I have no idea what you are thinking -- to me that's just an absolutely terrible trade.

Darrell Arthur is a vet minimum type player; Gallinari is past his prime; Nurkic has a shot to be quite a good player, but he's done nothing yet. For that matter, Porter has an even better shot to be an even better player.

edit: on top of which you think Denver would need more to do this trade? Wow! I think it'd be a dream come true for them!

I probably wouldn't do that trade, but saying it's because Gallinari is past his prime doesn't ring true. He's 27 - 4 or 5 years younger than Gortat - and coming off the most productive (though not most efficient) year of his NBA career. If he's past his prime, what is Gortat? Nurkic is a heckuva scoring talent, but he turns the ball over way too much and has a terrible fouling problem.

Right you are -- I fear I assigned Gallinari to his retirement village a little too early! Sorry, Danilo....

Still a very bad trade.

It's true, however, that Denver ought to be willing to move Nurkic. The other "__kic", Nikola Jokic, is proving to be a tremendous young Center.

Why don't we ever pick a "...kic", answer me that if you can!

[Pillendreher]

With Teague being that good a catch and shoot guy, I wonder how he'd do as a 2 playing with Wall. There are rumors that he's being shopped. And Atl might be a team that would really like Beal - he showed a lot of ability against them in a previous playoff series. Sign and trade Beal for Teague. Teague is a FA in 2017, so that's another reason Atl might be looking to take what they can get for him. Wall and Teague together... and a 3 guard set with Sato... fascinating.

Who's gonna guard bigger guards in that lineup? Porter?

EDIT: He's 138 for 333 on C&S jumpers over his last three seasons on 60.81 eFG%. That's 1.4 attempts per game. I don't think he would work that well as a spot-up shooter given that his jumpshot isn't that great (36.4 % from midrange on 2 fga/g; 36.1 % from 3 on 3 fga/g). Isn't Teague's greatest strength his drive to the basket?

Wall. He's actually got a 1.25 inch longer wingspan than Beal - not to mention his leaping ability. With Sato being the 3rd guard, if there are problem matchups with bigger guards, he can help. And Oubre might play some guard - talk about length.

Teague was a so-so at best catch and shoot player at Wake, but players evolve. If he had a catch and shoot efg over 70%, that's an indication he's evolving. And one of Wall's complaints the last couple of years is he hasn't had a player who can create to play with, so Teague's ability to drive would be more than welcome. Ramon Sessions has been THE only teammate who could drive to the basket with any consistency - and he's a limited player... and a free agent. Usually, talented players find ways to play efficiently with each other.

So maybe Kanter to Atlanta, Teague to Washington and Beal to OKC.

[Ruzious]

Who's gonna guard bigger guards in that lineup? Porter?

EDIT: He's 138 for 333 on C&S jumpers over his last three seasons on 60.81 eFG%. That's 1.4 attempts per game. I don't think he would work that well as a spot-up shooter given that his jumpshot isn't that great (36.4 % from midrange on 2 fga/g; 36.1 % from 3 on 3 fga/g). Isn't Teague's greatest strength his drive to the basket?

Wall. He's actually got a 1.25 inch longer wingspan than Beal - not to mention his leaping ability. With Sato being the 3rd guard, if there are problem matchups with bigger guards, he can help. And Oubre might play some guard - talk about length.

Teague was a so-so at best catch and shoot player at Wake, but players evolve. If he had a catch and shoot efg over 70%, that's an indication he's evolving. And one of Wall's complaints the last couple of years is he hasn't had a player who can create to play with, so Teague's ability to drive would be more than welcome. Ramon Sessions has been THE only teammate who could drive to the basket with any consistency - and he's a limited player... and a free agent. Usually, talented players find ways to play efficiently with each other.

So maybe Kanter to Atlanta, Teague to Washington and Beal to OKC.

Yes - assuming Horford leaves Atl.

[Pillendreher]

Wall. He's actually got a 1.25 inch longer wingspan than Beal - not to mention his leaping ability. With Sato being the 3rd guard, if there are problem matchups with bigger guards, he can help. And Oubre might play some guard - talk about length.

Teague was a so-so at best catch and shoot player at Wake, but players evolve. If he had a catch and shoot efg over 70%, that's an indication he's evolving. And one of Wall's complaints the last couple of years is he hasn't had a player who can create to play with, so Teague's ability to drive would be more than welcome. Ramon Sessions has been THE only teammate who could drive to the basket with any consistency - and he's a limited player... and a free agent. Usually, talented players find ways to play efficiently with each other.

So maybe Kanter to Atlanta, Teague to Washington and Beal to OKC.

Yes - assuming Horford leaves Atl.

OK, I'll give Presti the go ahead and you notify EG.

[verbal8]

OK, I'll give Presti the go ahead and you notify EG.

We will leave that to @LyricalRico

[stevemcqueen1]

Let's say we're able to sign Hassan Whiteside this summer: what about a Gortat for Iggy trade? Golden State is looking to keep Barnes, and if they do so, they'll need both money and a center since Bogut is both useless and a free agent.

We have a lot of wings already, but we could use a veteran who is as good as Iggy.

EDIT: scratch that, I was wrong, Bogut has another year on his deal.

[Dat2U]

Let's say we're able to sign Hassan Whiteside this summer: what about a Gortat for Iggy trade? Golden State is looking to keep Barnes, and if they do so, they'll need both money and a center since Bogut is both useless and a free agent.

We have a lot of wings already, but we could use a veteran who is as good as Iggy.

EDIT: scratch that, I was wrong, Bogut has another year on his deal.

I don't think they'd look to deal Iggy because he's so important to what they do but I'd be all over that deal. I've liked Iggy for years and wanted him since his Philly days.

As far as Gortat, I'd be willing to be proactive and trade him before free agency considering the amount of available Cs in free agency. Worst case, we'd be able to get someone that's comparable.

Boston has to dump some of those draft picks. I believe they've got 8 picks in total and a roster filled with young guys still on their rookie deal. What about a Gortat for Amir Johnson (his contract is not guaranteed but I'd like to keep him) swap with the Celts giving us the #16 & a 2nd rounder? Maybe Denzel Valentine is there. Or a Domantas Sabonis and if were lucky Deyonta Davis (ESPN has him slipping to 16).

[CobraCommander]

Morris for Love - straight up. Cleveland clearly doesn't need Love and We clearly DONT need someone so dumb as to sneak weed into philly...

[LyricalRico]

Let's say we're able to sign Hassan Whiteside this summer: what about a Gortat for Iggy trade? Golden State is looking to keep Barnes, and if they do so, they'll need both money and a center since Bogut is both useless and a free agent.

We have a lot of wings already, but we could use a veteran who is as good as Iggy.

EDIT: scratch that, I was wrong, Bogut has another year on his deal.

I don't think they'd look to deal Iggy because he's so important to what they do but I'd be all over that deal. I've liked Iggy for years and wanted him since his Philly days.

Agree with Dat that I would like to add Iggy, and I'm also not sure Bogut's extra year would be a huge obstacle. I doubt they overpay to keep Ezeli, so Bogut could easily slide into a backup role for a season and be effective against second teamers (like Nene was this past season). Harrison Barnes being a FA probably has more of an impact on a deal like this because losing him and trading Iggy gives them a huge hole on the wing.

Maybe expand it to Gortat+Porter for Iggy+Looney+30? Then follow up with Beal+Morris for Love+Shumpert, and max out Whiteside. Bring in a vet backup C and we'd then be free to use the #30 on BPA regardless of position, or even a draft-and-stash.

Whiteside/FA
Love/Looney
Iggy/Oubre
Shumpert/Temple
Wall/Satoransky

Even with Love's shortcomings, that could be an elite defensive team. And if Love can regain his scoring form being back as a main option, we'd really be in business. A lot depends on Whiteside continuing to develop, and Oubre would have to be ready to step in next season, but I think those are reasonable risks.

[verbal8]

Morris for Love - straight up. Cleveland clearly doesn't need Love and We clearly DONT need someone so dumb as to sneak weed into philly...

LOL

I guess we didn't need a 1st round pick either.

[Ruzious]

Let's say we're able to sign Hassan Whiteside this summer: what about a Gortat for Iggy trade? Golden State is looking to keep Barnes, and if they do so, they'll need both money and a center since Bogut is both useless and a free agent.

We have a lot of wings already, but we could use a veteran who is as good as Iggy.

EDIT: scratch that, I was wrong, Bogut has another year on his deal.

I don't think they'd look to deal Iggy because he's so important to what they do but I'd be all over that deal. I've liked Iggy for years and wanted him since his Philly days.

Agree with Dat that I would like to add Iggy, and I'm also not sure Bogut's extra year would be a huge obstacle. I doubt they overpay to keep Ezeli, so Bogut could easily slide into a backup role for a season and be effective against second teamers (like Nene was this past season). Harrison Barnes being a FA probably has more of an impact on a deal like this because losing him and trading Iggy gives them a huge hole on the wing.

Maybe expand it to Gortat+Porter for Iggy+Looney+30? Then follow up with Beal+Morris for Love+Shumpert, and max out Whiteside. Bring in a vet backup C and we'd then be free to use the #30 on BPA regardless of position, or even a draft-and-stash.

Whiteside/FA
Love/Looney
Iggy/Oubre
Shumpert/Temple
Wall/Satoransky

Even with Love's shortcomings, that could be an elite defensive team. And if Love can regain his scoring form being back as a main option, we'd really be in business. A lot depends on Whiteside continuing to develop, and Oubre would have to be ready to step in next season, but I think those are reasonable risks.

You and Steve have a good basic idea, so keep it simpler and just make it a sign and trade of Beal for Love. As Dat said, GS is going to want to keep Iggy - so forget about getting Iggy - especially since we're better off long-term with a young Porter. Whiteside and Love... on paper that looks like a great combo.

[stevemcqueen1]

I've lost a lot of faith in Love. I think he is, at best, a difficult personality to work with, and his limitations as a player force you to account for them with the guys you put around him. i.e., he's a hopeless PnR defender who also gives you nothing as a weak side helper and he can't create offense for himself.

It's pretty shocking just how useless he is for Cleveland. I have doubts about whether he can give you star caliber play on a good team. It also bothers me that he hasn't truly bought in to a team led by LeBron. He is in such a good situation now, you can't blame being moody and standoffish on the team any more.

I do still like Kevin Love's offensive skills. Perhaps his needs are as simple as changing scenery and playing for a team with a pass first PG. But being a bust for Cleveland puts a big buyer beware sign on him and I'd rather not chance it with him.

Instead I would probably just keep most of the core intact, go after Whiteside, and then focus on dealing Gortat for a high caliber rotation player. Someone who may not be able to put up workhorse numbers and minutes during the season, but is good enough to be a key mismatch in a series and help swing it your way. Like an Iggy or a Joakim Noah or someone else of that level. Or maybe a young guy from a team that has too many young players to develop and is looking to make deals for short term upgrades that can buttress their locker room and get them out of the lottery.

[Dat2U]

My ideal and only slightly unrealistic offseason.

1. Trade C Marcin Gortat to the Boston Celtics for F Amir Johnson (non-guaranteed contract) & the 16th & 35th picks in the 2016 Draft. Boston has 8 picks so they'll be looking to deal some for sure.

2. Draft G Denzel Valentine & C Chinanu Onuaku (availability based on DraftExpress Mock)

3. Sign unrestricted free agent C Hassan Whiteside to a 4 year deal starting a little over $17 million per. (approx. 4yr - $90 million)

4. Sign former 2nd round pick G Tomas Satoransky to a 4 year deal starting at $6 million (approx. 4 yr - $30 million)

5. Sign unrestricted free agent G Seth Curry to a 4 year deal starting at $4 million (approx. 4 yr - $22 million)

6. Using MLE for teams under the cap, sign free agent C Cole Aldrich to a 4 year deal starting at $2.7 mil (approx. 4 yr - $15 million)

7. Using the current cap hold, sign G Garrett Temple to a 3 year deal starting at $3 million (approx. 3 yr - $12 million)

8. Re-sign G/F Alan Anderson to one year deal at veteran minimum salary.

New roster:

PF Markieff Morris / Amir Johnson
SF Otto Porter Jr. / Kelly Oubre Jr. / Alan Anderson
CE Hassan Whiteside / Cole Aldrich / Chinanu Onuaku
SG Bradley Beal / Denzel Valentine / Garrett Temple
PG John Wall / Tomas Satoransky / Seth Curry

Not 100% sure if we have the cap room to pull off all the moves. I would possibly look at waving Amir Johnson and re-sign him for a lower figure if necessary but I like him as quality depth behind Markieff. I think Amir is actually the better player.

I'm also big on adding guard depth with Wall coming back from surgery on both knees & Beal's injury history.

[gtn130]

I've lost a lot of faith in Love. I think he is, at best, a difficult personality to work with, and his limitations as a player force you to account for them with the guys you put around him. i.e., he's a hopeless PnR defender who also gives you nothing as a weak side helper and he can't create offense for himself.

It's pretty shocking just how useless he is for Cleveland. I have doubts about whether he can give you star caliber play on a good team. It also bothers me that he hasn't truly bought in to a team led by LeBron. He is in such a good situation now, you can't blame being moody and standoffish on the team any more.

I do still like Kevin Love's offensive skills. Perhaps his needs are as simple as changing scenery and playing for a team with a pass first PG. But being a bust for Cleveland puts a big buyer beware sign on him and I'd rather not chance it with him.

Instead I would probably just keep most of the core intact, go after Whiteside, and then focus on dealing Gortat for a high caliber rotation player. Someone who may not be able to put up workhorse numbers and minutes during the season, but is good enough to be a key mismatch in a series and help swing it your way. Like an Iggy or a Joakim Noah or someone else of that level. Or maybe a young guy from a team that has too many young players to develop and is looking to make deals for short term upgrades that can buttress their locker room and get them out of the lottery.

I think you're overreacting to the finals. He's still a very good player in the right situation. He was a bit overrated coming from Minnesota, though.

[payitforward]

My ideal and only slightly unrealistic offseason.

1. Trade C Marcin Gortat to the Boston Celtics for F Amir Johnson (non-guaranteed contract) & the 16th & 35th picks in the 2016 Draft. Boston has 8 picks so they'll be looking to deal some for sure.

2. Draft G Denzel Valentine & C Chinanu Onuaku (availability based on DraftExpress Mock)

3. Sign unrestricted free agent C Hassan Whiteside to a 4 year deal starting a little over $17 million per. (approx. 4yr - $90 million)

4. Sign former 2nd round pick G Tomas Satoransky to a 4 year deal starting at $6 million (approx. 4 yr - $30 million)

5. Sign unrestricted free agent G Seth Curry to a 4 year deal starting at $4 million (approx. 4 yr - $22 million)

6. Using MLE for teams under the cap, sign free agent C Cole Aldrich to a 4 year deal starting at $2.7 mil (approx. 4 yr - $15 million)

7. Using the current cap hold, sign G Garrett Temple to a 3 year deal starting at $3 million (approx. 3 yr - $12 million)

8. Re-sign G/F Alan Anderson to one year deal at veteran minimum salary.

New roster:

PF Markieff Morris / Amir Johnson
SF Otto Porter Jr. / Kelly Oubre Jr. / Alan Anderson
CE Hassan Whiteside / Cole Aldrich / Chinanu Onuaku
SG Bradley Beal / Denzel Valentine / Garrett Temple
PG John Wall / Tomas Satoransky / Seth Curry

Not 100% sure if we have the cap room to pull off all the moves. I would possibly look at waving Amir Johnson and re-sign him for a lower figure if necessary but I like him as quality depth behind Markieff. I think Amir is actually the better player.

I'm also big on adding guard depth with Wall coming back from surgery on both knees & Beal's injury history.

Well, sign me up for all that -- except we ought to be able to do better than Anderson, but that's a detail.

Only thing... I think this might be more than "only slightly unrealistic."

For one thing, if you can believe what you read, Boston wants to deal the #3 pick, not the lower R1 picks. Still... that's a very imaginative trade idea!

What if we got Boston's #23 and #31 (i.e. instead of 16 and 35), and we took Valentine and Brice Johnson, who DR projects in exactly those spots, would you like that better than Valentine and Onoaku? I know I would.

Isn't everyone in the world convinced that Whiteside will get the max from someone? And, are you (is anyone) sure enough of Satoransky that they want to sign him for 4 years guaranteed? For that matter, all we know is that if he comes here he comes to us; we don't actually know he's coming here -- or even that he wants to! This year I mean.

[Ruzious]

I've lost a lot of faith in Love. I think he is, at best, a difficult personality to work with, and his limitations as a player force you to account for them with the guys you put around him. i.e., he's a hopeless PnR defender who also gives you nothing as a weak side helper and he can't create offense for himself.

It's pretty shocking just how useless he is for Cleveland. I have doubts about whether he can give you star caliber play on a good team. It also bothers me that he hasn't truly bought in to a team led by LeBron. He is in such a good situation now, you can't blame being moody and standoffish on the team any more.

I do still like Kevin Love's offensive skills. Perhaps his needs are as simple as changing scenery and playing for a team with a pass first PG. But being a bust for Cleveland puts a big buyer beware sign on him and I'd rather not chance it with him.

Instead I would probably just keep most of the core intact, go after Whiteside, and then focus on dealing Gortat for a high caliber rotation player. Someone who may not be able to put up workhorse numbers and minutes during the season, but is good enough to be a key mismatch in a series and help swing it your way. Like an Iggy or a Joakim Noah or someone else of that level. Or maybe a young guy from a team that has too many young players to develop and is looking to make deals for short term upgrades that can buttress their locker room and get them out of the lottery.

Teaming Love with Whiteside, Wall and some shooters should make him an all-star. He's smart and agile enough to be a positional defender. And he's not just a shooter, he's a great interior passer, a great outlet passer, a great rebounder, a quality inside scorer, and he's surprisingly good on tv commercials. And if we can't get Whiteside, we could still team Love with Gortat.

[fishercob]

My ideal and only slightly unrealistic offseason.

1. Trade C Marcin Gortat to the Boston Celtics for F Amir Johnson (non-guaranteed contract) & the 16th & 35th picks in the 2016 Draft. Boston has 8 picks so they'll be looking to deal some for sure.

2. Draft G Denzel Valentine & C Chinanu Onuaku (availability based on DraftExpress Mock)

3. Sign unrestricted free agent C Hassan Whiteside to a 4 year deal starting a little over $17 million per. (approx. 4yr - $90 million)

4. Sign former 2nd round pick G Tomas Satoransky to a 4 year deal starting at $6 million (approx. 4 yr - $30 million)

5. Sign unrestricted free agent G Seth Curry to a 4 year deal starting at $4 million (approx. 4 yr - $22 million)

6. Using MLE for teams under the cap, sign free agent C Cole Aldrich to a 4 year deal starting at $2.7 mil (approx. 4 yr - $15 million)

7. Using the current cap hold, sign G Garrett Temple to a 3 year deal starting at $3 million (approx. 3 yr - $12 million)

8. Re-sign G/F Alan Anderson to one year deal at veteran minimum salary.

New roster:

PF Markieff Morris / Amir Johnson
SF Otto Porter Jr. / Kelly Oubre Jr. / Alan Anderson
CE Hassan Whiteside / Cole Aldrich / Chinanu Onuaku
SG Bradley Beal / Denzel Valentine / Garrett Temple
PG John Wall / Tomas Satoransky / Seth Curry

Not 100% sure if we have the cap room to pull off all the moves. I would possibly look at waving Amir Johnson and re-sign him for a lower figure if necessary but I like him as quality depth behind Markieff. I think Amir is actually the better player.

I'm also big on adding guard depth with Wall coming back from surgery on both knees & Beal's injury history.

Well, sign me up for all that -- except we ought to be able to do better than Anderson, but that's a detail.

Only thing... I think this might be more than "only slightly unrealistic."

For one thing, if you can believe what you read, Boston wants to deal the #3 pick, not the lower R1 picks. Still... that's a very imaginative trade idea!

What if we got Boston's #23 and #31 (i.e. instead of 16 and 35), and we took Valentine and Brice Johnson, who DR projects in exactly those spots, would you like that better than Valentine and Onoaku? I know I would.

Isn't everyone in the world convinced that Whiteside will get the max from someone? And, are you (is anyone) sure enough of Satoransky that they want to sign him for 4 years guaranteed? For that matter, all we know is that if he comes here he comes to us; we don't actually know he's coming here -- or even that he wants to! This year I mean.

I think Whiteside will get the max. I'd give it to him. That said, I don't think you can make any summer plans around getting him. It's going to be a competitive situation -- one that I wouldn't bet on the Wizards winning.