Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Meliorus]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.

Nurkic gives me Jonas Valanciunas vibes. Very strong build and good offensive game, but can't stay on the floor during crunch-time because of defense. Is Nurkic supposedly a rim-protector? All his past stats say otherwise. Isn't he also more of a post-up center rather than a pick-roll big?

Honestly, athletic pick and roll bigs have the least offensive "skill", but play fine with a point guard like Wall. If we're so desperate to trade our pick, make a push for Whiteside.

[Illmatic12]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.

Agreed nate, if we could trade just our pick for Nurkic I would have done that yesterday.

But I'm still a bit uneasy about Otto's impending contract status. If we were going to move OP, Chandler is a player I'd definitely view as a worthy replacemnt.

[nate33]

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.

Nurkic gives me Jonas Valanciunas vibes. Very strong build and good offensive game, but can't stay on the floor during crunch-time because of defense. Is Nurkic supposedly a rim-protector? All his past stats say otherwise. Isn't he also more of a post-up center rather than a pick-roll big?

Honestly, athletic pick and roll bigs have the least offensive "skill", but play fine with a point guard like Wall. If we're so desperate to trade our pick, make a push for Whiteside.

Only 7 starting centers have a superior DRPM than Nurkic. All of the available metrics suggest that he's a good defender with potential to get better. His blocks and steals per game are good, he's an excellent defensive rebounder, and he's cutting down his foul rate a great deal for a guy who is only 22.

His offense is definitely behind his defense, but that's typical for young centers. His numbers as a roll man on the pick and roll are respectable. He can't shoot though.

[Illmatic12]

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.

Nurkic gives me Jonas Valanciunas vibes. Very strong build and good offensive game, but can't stay on the floor during crunch-time because of defense. Is Nurkic supposedly a rim-protector? All his past stats say otherwise. Isn't he also more of a post-up center rather than a pick-roll big?

Honestly, athletic pick and roll bigs have the least offensive "skill", but play fine with a point guard like Wall. If we're so desperate to trade our pick, make a push for Whiteside.

The reason why he can't play in crunch-time is because you can't play him together with Jokic. Nurkic isn't a shotblocker but he's actually fairly mobile on defense.

He does have a low post game but it's not efficient yet. His midrange jumper in the PnP was serviceable last season.
The idea would be to develop him into a Steven Adams-type player. Nurkic is a physical presence and he sets hard screens - which is critical to the type of offensive sets we run.

[Meliorus]

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.

Nurkic gives me Jonas Valanciunas vibes. Very strong build and good offensive game, but can't stay on the floor during crunch-time because of defense. Is Nurkic supposedly a rim-protector? All his past stats say otherwise. Isn't he also more of a post-up center rather than a pick-roll big?

Honestly, athletic pick and roll bigs have the least offensive "skill", but play fine with a point guard like Wall. If we're so desperate to trade our pick, make a push for Whiteside.

Only 7 starting centers have a superior DRPM than Nurkic. All of the available metrics suggest that he's a good defender with potential to get better. His blocks and steals per game are good, he's an excellent defensive rebounder, and he's cutting down his foul rate a great deal for a guy who is only 22.

His offense is definitely behind his defense, but that's typical for young centers. His numbers as a roll man on the pick and roll are respectable. He can't shoot though.

Last season, he had a DRPM ranked 38th among centers. Our 2 very own centers, Gortat and Manhimi, ranked 14th and 3rd respectively.

If you haven't realized already, I have a bias against below-the-rim centers.

[nate33]

Nurkic gives me Jonas Valanciunas vibes. Very strong build and good offensive game, but can't stay on the floor during crunch-time because of defense. Is Nurkic supposedly a rim-protector? All his past stats say otherwise. Isn't he also more of a post-up center rather than a pick-roll big?

Honestly, athletic pick and roll bigs have the least offensive "skill", but play fine with a point guard like Wall. If we're so desperate to trade our pick, make a push for Whiteside.

Only 7 starting centers have a superior DRPM than Nurkic. All of the available metrics suggest that he's a good defender with potential to get better. His blocks and steals per game are good, he's an excellent defensive rebounder, and he's cutting down his foul rate a great deal for a guy who is only 22.

His offense is definitely behind his defense, but that's typical for young centers. His numbers as a roll man on the pick and roll are respectable. He can't shoot though.

Last season, he had a DRPM ranked 38th among centers. Our 2 very own centers, Gortat and Manhimi, ranked 14th and 3rd respectively.

If you haven't realized already, I have a bias against below-the-rim centers.

21 year olds tend to improve. This year, he's a better defender than last year. I think the most notable stat is his dramatic drop in foul rate. That has also come with a drop in his blocks/steals rate which suggest that he's getting smarter and more conservative on defense, gambling much less often.

[mhd]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

[Meliorus]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

Portland says no. They can get a better player making the same salary as Nicholson with that package.

[penbeast0]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

Portland says no. They can get a better player making the same salary as Nicholson with that package.

Not sure it's Portland that says no; that's a big $ to eat for a 4th string center.

[payitforward]

Only 7 starting centers have a superior DRPM than Nurkic. All of the available metrics suggest that he's a good defender with potential to get better. His blocks and steals per game are good, he's an excellent defensive rebounder, and he's cutting down his foul rate a great deal for a guy who is only 22.

His offense is definitely behind his defense, but that's typical for young centers. His numbers as a roll man on the pick and roll are respectable. He can't shoot though.

Last season, he had a DRPM ranked 38th among centers. Our 2 very own centers, Gortat and Manhimi, ranked 14th and 3rd respectively.

If you haven't realized already, I have a bias against below-the-rim centers.

21 year olds tend to improve. This year, he's a better defender than last year. I think the most notable stat is his dramatic drop in foul rate. That has also come with a drop in his blocks/steals rate which suggest that he's getting smarter and more conservative on defense, gambling much less often.

His FG% is also way up this year -- from .42 to .53. His single biggest problem is turnovers. 2d worst turnover rate in the league among Centers.

[nate33]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

We can't afford to do the trade for the same reason Portland might consider the trade. The deal would put us into the luxtax unless we somehow signed Porter to a deal substantially below the max. But this discussion puts into perspective the opportunity cost of EG's ill-advised shopping spree last offseason.

[J-Ves]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

We can't afford to do the trade for the same reason Portland might consider the trade. The deal would put us into the luxtax unless we somehow signed Porter to a deal substantially below the max. But this discussion puts into perspective the opportunity cost of EG's ill-advised shopping spree last offseason.

Yep. Mahinmi is unmovable and Nicholson isn't going anywhere unless we attach a first or Oubre with him. Our cap situation is so dire that I'm beginning to think EGs move will be Nicholson + first for the best available expiring contract.

[nate33]

What about this deal:

Nicholson for Myers Leonard+2017 Cavs 1st?

Leonard sucks and is getting paid more than Nicholson does (they expire at the same time), but Portland is in luxury tax territory now. If Ted is willing to pay the tax to retain Porter, then we pick up a late 1st in this stacked draft to add a cheap rookie to the bench. Leonard (theoretically) gives us a shooting athletic big.

We can't afford to do the trade for the same reason Portland might consider the trade. The deal would put us into the luxtax unless we somehow signed Porter to a deal substantially below the max. But this discussion puts into perspective the opportunity cost of EG's ill-advised shopping spree last offseason.

Yep. Mahinmi is unmovable and Nicholson isn't going anywhere unless we attach a first or Oubre with him. Our cap situation is so dire that I'm beginning to think EGs move will be Nicholson + first for the best available expiring contract.

Don't worry. That won't happen. Remember that luxtax calculations are made at the end of the season. If, for argument's sake, the Wizards exceeded the luxtax by $2M when they resigned Porter, they could wait until the Trade Deadline next year and that give up a 2nd round pick in exchange for someone to take Jason Smith's contract off our hands.

The bottom line is that in a league where 10 or so teams are under the cap, it won't require a first round pick to dump salary.

[mhd]

We can't afford to do the trade for the same reason Portland might consider the trade. The deal would put us into the luxtax unless we somehow signed Porter to a deal substantially below the max. But this discussion puts into perspective the opportunity cost of EG's ill-advised shopping spree last offseason.

Yep. Mahinmi is unmovable and Nicholson isn't going anywhere unless we attach a first or Oubre with him. Our cap situation is so dire that I'm beginning to think EGs move will be Nicholson + first for the best available expiring contract.

Don't worry. That won't happen. Remember that luxtax calculations are made at the end of the season. If, for argument's sake, the Wizards exceeded the luxtax by $2M when they resigned Porter, they could wait until the Trade Deadline next year and that give up a 2nd round pick in exchange for someone to take Jason Smith's contract off our hands.

The bottom line is that in a league where 10 or so teams are under the cap, it won't require a first round pick to dump salary.

Or, if Mahinmi proves playable, we could deal Gortat for a cheap young guy/future 1st.

[deneem4]

Hawes
Leonard
Kanter

3 examples of bigs il trade Gortat for in a second...

Then thank God you are not the GM. Those guys would be disasters as defensive anchors. Kanter is a well known defensive sieve and ranks 65th out of 67 centers in DRPM. His defense is so bad that he can't manage to start despite being among the league leaders in PER and WS/48. Think about that.

Leonard and Hawes are so bad defensively that ESPN can't even bring themselves to classify them as centers. But their DRPM would rank them 52nd and 53rd out of 69 centers in DRPM. And have you looked at their numbers? Leonard is posting a PER of 7.8, a TS% of .483, and a WS/48 of .015. Hawes is posting a PER of 15 and a WS/48 of .093, but has only managed to steal 480 minutes of playing time this entire season on a .500 team with no true center.

I didn't list those guys to be defensive centers...they're stretch bigs who has better offense than gortat...
Hawes has been an OK defender...maybe not this year but he's not really a bad defender....

The thing they can bring is the stretch 5 ability which could help us spread the floor and attack when we cant get the jumpshots to fall...

We have mahimi still for a defensive center...

But having a 5 to spread the floor would make our shooters even more deadly and give them lanes to attack

Gortat has been bad defensively this year...anybody and every one has they way with him downlow...and most other bigs can stop him easily offensively

[stevemcqueen1]

Agreed nate, if we could trade just our pick for Nurkic I would have done that yesterday.

But I'm still a bit uneasy about Otto's impending contract status. If we were going to move OP, Chandler is a player I'd definitely view as a worthy replacemnt.

He isn't even remotely a worthy replacement. Flipping Porter for Chandler and Nurkic would be a disastrously bad trade.

[deneem4]

Is there any ball handling forwards that's not untradeable

[krii]

Hawes
Leonard
Kanter

3 examples of bigs il trade Gortat for in a second...

Then thank God you are not the GM. Those guys would be disasters as defensive anchors. Kanter is a well known defensive sieve and ranks 65th out of 67 centers in DRPM. His defense is so bad that he can't manage to start despite being among the league leaders in PER and WS/48. Think about that.

Leonard and Hawes are so bad defensively that ESPN can't even bring themselves to classify them as centers. But their DRPM would rank them 52nd and 53rd out of 69 centers in DRPM. And have you looked at their numbers? Leonard is posting a PER of 7.8, a TS% of .483, and a WS/48 of .015. Hawes is posting a PER of 15 and a WS/48 of .093, but has only managed to steal 480 minutes of playing time this entire season on a .500 team with no true center.

I didn't list those guys to be defensive centers...they're stretch bigs who has better offense than gortat...
Hawes has been an OK defender...maybe not this year but he's not really a bad defender....

The thing they can bring is the stretch 5 ability which could help us spread the floor and attack when we cant get the jumpshots to fall...

We have mahimi still for a defensive center...

But having a 5 to spread the floor would make our shooters even more deadly and give them lanes to attack

Gortat has been bad defensively this year...anybody and every one has they way with him downlow...and most other bigs can stop him easily offensively

I like it when you fire up your Gortat bashes every single time he isn't providing 19/12 on .900 FG

I bet if we have had Mahinmi instead of Gortat and he averages 10/6 with a really questionable offense and good defense whilst missing 7 games due to some minor injuries (= Smith/Nicholson combo instead), you'd be bashing Ian instead 'he can't beat anybody and every one downlow ... and most other bigs can stop him easily offensively. he's useless. We should have had Bogut instead! and his defence is overrated, he can't stop KAT and Embiid,they scored 18 and 20 respectively!1!'.

[NatP4]

Agreed nate, if we could trade just our pick for Nurkic I would have done that yesterday.

But I'm still a bit uneasy about Otto's impending contract status. If we were going to move OP, Chandler is a player I'd definitely view as a worthy replacemnt.

He isn't even remotely a worthy replacement. Flipping Porter for Chandler and Nurkic would be a disastrously bad trade.

I would never even consider that garbage

[queridiculo]

I'll sleep much better once the trade deadline has passed and Grunfeld hasn't made any moves.

Deathly afraid Grunfeld will pull a Porter + Mahinmi for Melo.