Political Roundtable Part XV

[Pointgod]

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This is huge! Goes to show how powerful actual journalism is when you aren't worried about appeasing both sides.

[Zonkerbl]

Remember that guy who is USDA's top scientist who has zero academic qualifications whatsoever?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.htmlhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.html

IMHO I don't care. I think putting a scientist in charge of managing a big organization is a terrible idea. Hire people who can explain the science to you.

[Ruzious]

Remember that guy who is USDA's top scientist who has zero academic qualifications whatsoever?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.htmlhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.html

IMHO I don't care. I think putting a scientist in charge of managing a big organization is a terrible idea. Hire people who can explain the science to you.

From that article:

Clovis previously argued that protections for LGBT people would lead to protections for pedophilia, and as a radio host and political activist, he promoted the hoax that former President Barack Obama was not born in the US. Likewise, he called Obama a "Maoist" and said Attorney General Eric Holder is a "racist black."

These are the kind of people Trump is trying to promote to help run the government? I can take him looking like a 400 lb platypus. The other stuff - no.

[doclinkin]

You basically just confirmed what most of us already suspected: For all intents and purposes, you're a Republican/conservative.

It puts your parroting of GOP talking points in proper context.

When I asked you what your go-to source(s) for news was you never really answered the question.

I kinda expected FOX was one of them just because many of your talking points are straight out of the FOX/GOP playbook.

Even the language you use when describing Democrats, that doesn't come from from a former member of the party.

You link to sites like the National Review, listen to Hannity etc.

You're a partisan like most of us...and that's okay.

You can admit it.

Actually, I've come to believe that SD20 is MORE partisan than most of us.

He claims to have voted for Obama and Sanders, but now appears to be head over heels in love with Trump. I don't get it. Either SD20 is lying about his support for Obama/Sanders or he has absolutely no core principals and values, which would explain why it was so easy for him to make the switch to Trump.

Look none of you people understand my man SD20. He just genuinely enjoys sticking up a middle finger to basically anybody. If this were a more conservative forum he'd be pissing off the neo-cons.

Bernie promised to shake things up, and would have, Obama promised to shake things up, and didn't shake hard enough, Hillary has no shimmy, no shake, none of that, just a lifetime of carefully incisive and carping wonkmanship. More qualified than any other candidate ever, but cautious since she was stung in her first few months trying to ram health care through under the Man from Hope Bubba administration, and the Gingrinch (sic) Contract on America (sic).

The country needed a shake up. Politics needed a shake up. We got the wrong shake up. But maybe the political rebound from this a-hole will be the right shake up. President Elizabeth Warren or whomever, I dunno.

BUt as for support for Trump, my man StillDroopy just relishes poking holes in the balloon. And people being loudmouthed even with overwhelmingly logical or sensible arguments is jsut going to send him running to alternative sources for the sole purpose of pissing people off and shaking things up,

Somebody has to be willing to the villain. Me I've missed the guy.

Nate I miss on here for a different reason. He has his biases and seeks to support them with his own research. I don't think he is intellectually dishonest or bankrupt, I think he is genuine in his earnest search for confirmation bias. I think he feels strongly and seeks to educate himself on why he feels as strongly as he does. I get the impression he lacks exposure to diversity and perceives it as a weakness or vulnerability in the body politic. Looking at homogeneous cultures that have collapsed due to expansion and cultural drift. Ignoring the fact that the Pax Romana lasted 200 years (some might argue due to technological and military superiority) despite integrating and assimilating diverse cultures into their society (and providing avenues to qualify as full citizens through service) still, if you look at end game Rome, it grew too large to support and defend its full expanse, and sure you could argue that cultures failed to assimilate and support Rome and eventually it collapsed and sundered in part due to its expansion. The center did not hold.

And sure, there are reasons to fear that we are in an endgame in our current culture. And fear that fundamentalism of whatever stripe is a risk factor. Whether Apocalyptic endgame Christian theology or radicalized Muslim sects, anyoen who will not be swayed by compassion or reason and holds to a dogma strictly are a risk. If your ideas drown out and are more important than empathy or an interest in true understanding then you are a risk. But I have seen where Nate's curiosity or willingness to consult data have swayed him to one viewpoint or another. Doesn't mean that he's not suspicious of people with different cultures. It just means that while usually he prefers to back up his prejudices with whatever facts he can find to support them. I'm super curious how that essential fear formed in him. If there was an incident. An assault. Was he jumped as a kid. Or just not exposed to a successfully diverse culture. The difference between Washington DC and wherever Ohio are significant. Here'we are comfortable with the pidgin language that becomes a true creole when diverse cultures hybridize and form a new language. There's an irony that he defends his position by American English, which is a clunky and gods awful language to learn but has become the lingua franca of business and popular culture the world over in part because our language easily and readily adapts to and adopts concepts and cultures and vocabulary from other cultures.

We ain't speaking latin in part because diversity has been accepted and assimilated into our immigrant culture.

So yeah, I'm super curious about what formed Nate's prejudices. I know what formed mine.

But we all have prejudices. Preconceived notions. Knee-jerk reactions. Instinctive beliefs. Reflexes. Just understand in the case of my buddy SD20 his instinctive reflex is to challenge. Just remember this point, whatever his core beliefs, he's enjoying being on the side of pissing off the greatest number of people he can at any given moment. .

[Ruzious]

Thing is - when fringe whack job candidates on either side got 2 or 3 percent of the vote, we could laugh them off and put up with them, but now - we got that guy as President. And he's got a real following. That kind of shake-up isn't good for anything.

And the change we needed was in the House and Senate. How was Obama gonna effect change with 2 hands tied behind his back?

[dckingsfan]

Thing is - when fringe whack job candidates on either side got 2 or 3 percent of the vote, we could laugh them off and put up with them, but now - we got that guy as President. And he's got a real following. That kind of shake-up isn't good for anything. ?

Violent Agreement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/opinion/trump-niger-africa-desertification.html

And the change we needed was in the House and Senate. How was Obama gonna effect change with 2 hands tied behind his back?

Thing is - he did for 2 years. And Obama/DNC won some little battles but lost war -- and the Ds proceeded to get obliterated over the next 6 years. This is on the Ds messaging, strategy and logistics.

They failed miserably.

[Zonkerbl]

Pretty sure Nate is not from Ohio. At least not from my neck of the woods. Ohio is very integrated. I was struck when I went to Bloomington Indiana how white it was.

[Benjammin]

Absolutely. But calling huge groups of people evil and deplorables isn't going to advance anything either. Trump has definitely emboldened some very deplorable people and that must be met with robust resistance. Just watching the Hollywood sex abuse scandal has shown the moral bankruptcy of the elite left. But the truth is it really shows that brokenness and sometimes evil knows no bounds of race, creed, or sexual orientation.

Calling huge groups of people libtards isn't helping anything either. At least calling Trump supporters deplorable Russian patsies is true. It's not nice but the time to be nice is over. You support Trump, prepare to get verbally punched in the face. The gloves are off and all your cherished heroes are going to jail, where they should have been long ago.

How dare you. How dare you defend huge mobs of people chanting "Lock her up!" while Trump and his cronies conspired against the United States with Russia? Deplorable doesn't even come close. Brainwashed fascist thugs more like.[/quote]
Sigh. It's hard to respond to such histrionics.

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[Pointgod]

Remember that guy who is USDA's top scientist who has zero academic qualifications whatsoever?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.htmlhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/sam-clovis-department-of-agriculture/index.html

IMHO I don't care. I think putting a scientist in charge of managing a big organization is a terrible idea. Hire people who can explain the science to you.

From that article:

Clovis previously argued that protections for LGBT people would lead to protections for pedophilia, and as a radio host and political activist, he promoted the hoax that former President Barack Obama was not born in the US. Likewise, he called Obama a "Maoist" and said Attorney General Eric Holder is a "racist black."

These are the kind of people Trump is trying to promote to help run the government? I can take him looking like a 400 lb platypus. The other stuff - no.

This is what happens when you want to "burn it all down". I don't know why anyone is surprised that a candidate who campaigned on destroying the establishment would assign incompetent, malignant actors to high level government positions. How do expect the government to function when the whole point of this administration is to destroy the legacy of the previous administration that actually functioned.

[Benjammin]

You don't have a civil discussion with cancer. You shoot cancer with lasers, bombard it with chemicals, cut it with knives, burn it with fire. You do everything you can to keep the cancer from killing the patient. Civil discussion is for questions like, "whose life is more important, an unborn baby or the mother?" Not "should policy decisions be based on truth?" When a large portion of your society is advocating on the other side of that question, that decisions should be based on who shouts their lies the loudest, Democracy is about to die. There can be no shades of gray on that issue. We can have legitimate arguments about what the truth is. But whether decisions should be based on facts is an inviolable foundation of Democracy. It's the only way it can work.

Apparently your knowledge of cancer treatment is deficient. While many cancers are still treated with highly toxic indiscriminate chemotherapy and radiation, an increasing number of cancers are being treated with a targeted approach utilizing genetic markers and other personalized information.

I have no problem denouncing Trump and his supporters who deserve it. I just don't need to call as deplorables or denounce 35-45% of Americans while doing it. You don't further the cause of truth or the need for us to come together so we never have another Trump again in office.

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[Wizardspride]

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[stilldropin20]

Oh shizzles, now look at what Y'all did. Y'all Doclickin up here raisin his eyebrows.

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[gtn130]

Just understand in the case of my buddy SD20 his instinctive reflex is to challenge. Just remember this point, whatever his core beliefs, he's enjoying being on the side of pissing off the greatest number of people he can at any given moment. .

SD20 claims he didn't vote for Trump, and he brings this up every time he's backed into a corner. Like, if you take SD20 to task on how he disavows Hillary for things Trump is categorically and incontrovertibly far more guilty of, like fraud, corruption, grift, graft, waste, and everything else that makes him a kleptocrat, SD20 will tell you he didn't vote for Trump and therefore he is not being logically inconsistent.

He uses his made-up voting record to support his radically inconsistent and unprincipled set of 'beliefs' which appear to be limited to precisely whatever Trump, Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Fox News are peddling at any given moment. He's a total partisan hack and he knows it, and that's why he feels like he has to tell these fairy tales about who he did and didn't vote for.

He doesn't even have the self-awareness to be the master the troll that you think he is.

[Ruzious]

Oh shizzles, now look at what Y'all did. Y'all Doclickin up here raisin his eyebrows.

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The abridged version of Doc's post: "SD be trollin y'all."

[Ruzious]

Pretty sure Nate is not from Ohio. At least not from my neck of the woods. Ohio is very integrated. I was struck when I went to Bloomington Indiana how white it was.

He's an Ohio State fan and a real good basketball poster.

[stilldropin20]

yeah, I'm with doc. I want to hear more from nate too. Tell me more of his cracky tales.

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[Pointgod]

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[stilldropin20]

Just understand in the case of my buddy SD20 his instinctive reflex is to challenge. Just remember this point, whatever his core beliefs, he's enjoying being on the side of pissing off the greatest number of people he can at any given moment. .

SD20 claims he didn't vote for Trump, and he brings this up every time he's backed into a corner. Like, if you take SD20 to task on how he disavows Hillary for things Trump is categorically and incontrovertibly far more guilty of, like fraud, corruption, grift, graft, waste, and everything else that makes him a kleptocrat, SD20 will tell you he didn't vote for Trump and therefore he is not being logically inconsistent.

He uses his made-up voting record to support his radically inconsistent and unprincipled set of 'beliefs' which appear to be limited to precisely whatever Trump, Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Fox News are peddling at any given moment. He's a total partisan hack and he knows it, and that's why he feels like he has to tell these fairy tales about who he did and didn't vote for.

He doesn't even have the self-awareness to be the master the troll that you think he is.

My intentions here are too stimulate thought and conversation. Not talking points. Specifically YOU, my friend, and zonker are ridiculously judgemental, one - sided, full blown (each other) partisan nincompoops.

So much so that you guys have made it impossible to negotiate with you. And politics are about negotiation.

At some point you have to evolve into some kind of human being that has at least some ability to use at least some amount logic however miniscule to convey your thoughts in such a way that people who do not share your Viewpoint will still be willing to listen.

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

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The DNC is soooo incompetent...