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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1901 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:59 pm

Nate... A lot of people saw this coming. They were 15-22 on the road and below .500 against the West.
They played like a well coached, High IQ team. They were 29-7 at home, and 13-3 with more than 1 days rest. But they were never a real contender the way its usually defined.

NOP is interesting, but how do they pivot from the Jrue trade (LOVED in NO) to then moving assets for Beal.
I like their picks, but it might be a year early. But they really need to do something. Zion is a great mismatch, but like Simmons, really limited in some areas.
But who knows, maybe they make another trade at the deadline with Bledsoe/Redick/Ball and get another pick, in which they feel they could move off their 2021 picks (Theirs and Miami) for Beal and still maintain long term assets.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1902 » by TB » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:02 pm

Looks like this has been covered extensively here, but i'm not going to read through your million pages of a trade thread lol....

General consensus on if Wizards would be interested in:

Oubre, Wiseman, Minny 2021 pick, 1 future GSW first round pick for Beal

Yes, thats less picks than some superstars have gotten, but i think the Minny pick and Wiseman are deemed more valuable than like 4 future firsts from a playoff team.

As much as I want Wiseman and whoever they snag with the Minny pick to be the future for the Warriors, I dont think I could pass up the chance of throwing Steph/Beal/Klay/Wiggins/Dray out to close playoff games :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1903 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:03 pm

pcbothwel wrote:Nate... A lot of people saw this coming. They were 15-22 on the road and below .500 against the West.
They played like a well coached, High IQ team. They were 29-7 at home, and 13-3 with more than 1 days rest. But they were never a real contender the way its usually defined.

NOP is interesting, but how do they pivot from the Jrue trade (LOVED in NO) to then moving assets for Beal.
I like their picks, but it might be a year early. But they really need to do something. Zion is a great mismatch, but like Simmons, really limited in some areas.
But who knows, maybe they make another trade at the deadline with Bledsoe/Redick/Ball and get another pick, in which they feel they could move off their 2021 picks (Theirs and Miami) for Beal and still maintain long term assets.

You keep saying New Orleans has the 2021 Miami pick. Are you sure about that? Realgm says OKC has that pick.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

I don't see any contradiction in New Orleans pivoting from the Jrue trade to Beal. Jrue is three years older than Beal and a suspect outside shooter on a team built around youth and in dire need of perimeter shooting.

Bledsoe would be the cap ballast in the trade, freeing up some minutes for Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1904 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:David Aldridge at the Athletic said in a live Q&A yesterday that trading Wiseman and the Minny Pick for Beal would be too much for Golden State... :roll:

This is what he said exactly:

"Hollinger and I suggested that before the season started as a possibility, but there's no way GSW's giving you Wiseman AND the Minny pick, unless Steph were to insist. And I don't think he would. I'm guessing they play this out, see who the Wolves' pick becomes and hope that Klay can be something approximating his old self next year."

What do you folks think?

IMO- In such scenario, the Wiz should ask for Wiseman, the Minny pick and an extra GS pick at the minimum.

I think Aldridge is wrong.


Clearly.
Yeah, the team paying over 300M in salary/tax on track to miss the playoffs, with a soon to be 33 y/o star are just gonna ..."Play it out".
Im sure adding Jalen Johnson to this group will make Steph perk right up :roll:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1905 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:06 pm

Agreed with nate. Wiseman's an intriguing player, but he's got more flaws than I realized. He's still got value because of his potential going out several years, but GS's window is going to be closing while Wiseman is still figuring things out and may not ever get there - especially if he doesn't show better hands. He's doing better lately, but look at his assist/to's - which is a good stat for looking at a player's BBIQ. Per 36 minutes: 1.1 assists/2.9 to's.

Think of it this unscientific way - Wiseman is worth at most a tiny bit more than a third of Beal. The Minnesota pick (assuming 4 to 6) has a tiny bit less value than Wiseman. So together, they're worth a tiny bit more than 2/3rds of Beal. Add the GS pick and Wiggins net value considering his contract, and GS is doing fine in that trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1906 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:07 pm

TB wrote:Looks like this has been covered extensively here, but i'm not going to read through your million pages of a trade thread lol....

General consensus on if Wizards would be interested in:

Oubre, Wiseman, Minny 2021 pick, 1 future GSW first round pick for Beal

Yes, thats less picks than some superstars have gotten, but i think the Minny pick and Wiseman are deemed more valuable than like 4 future firsts from a playoff team.

As much as I want Wiseman and whoever they snag with the Minny pick to be the future for the Warriors, I dont think I could pass up the chance of throwing Steph/Beal/Klay/Wiggins/Dray out to close playoff games :)


I really don't think GSW would use Oubre as the salary filler in that deal. If they plan to keep Beal, they really have no choice but to send out Wiggins as the cap ballast. Otherwise, they'd be spending like $150M a year on luxtax penalties alone.

With Wiggins' bigger salary incoming, we would probably send Robin Lopez to Golden State as a stopgap replacement at the center position. Lopez is easily better than Wiseman at the moment, so that's an extra benefit if the goal is to win now.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1907 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:07 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Nate... A lot of people saw this coming. They were 15-22 on the road and below .500 against the West.
They played like a well coached, High IQ team. They were 29-7 at home, and 13-3 with more than 1 days rest. But they were never a real contender the way its usually defined.

NOP is interesting, but how do they pivot from the Jrue trade (LOVED in NO) to then moving assets for Beal.
I like their picks, but it might be a year early. But they really need to do something. Zion is a great mismatch, but like Simmons, really limited in some areas.
But who knows, maybe they make another trade at the deadline with Bledsoe/Redick/Ball and get another pick, in which they feel they could move off their 2021 picks (Theirs and Miami) for Beal and still maintain long term assets.

You keep saying New Orleans has the 2021 Miami pick. Are you sure about that? Realgm says OKC has that pick.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

I don't see any contradiction in New Orleans pivoting from the Jrue trade to Beal. Jrue is three years older than Beal and a suspect outside shooter on a team built around youth and in dire need of perimeter shooting.

Bledsoe would be the cap ballast in the trade, freeing up some minutes for Beal.


You are correct. My bad. OKC has it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1908 » by TB » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:09 pm

nate33 wrote:
TB wrote:Looks like this has been covered extensively here, but i'm not going to read through your million pages of a trade thread lol....

General consensus on if Wizards would be interested in:

Oubre, Wiseman, Minny 2021 pick, 1 future GSW first round pick for Beal

Yes, thats less picks than some superstars have gotten, but i think the Minny pick and Wiseman are deemed more valuable than like 4 future firsts from a playoff team.

As much as I want Wiseman and whoever they snag with the Minny pick to be the future for the Warriors, I dont think I could pass up the chance of throwing Steph/Beal/Klay/Wiggins/Dray out to close playoff games :)


I really don't think GSW would use Oubre as the salary filler in that deal. If they plan to keep Beal, they really have no choice but to send out Wiggins as the cap ballast. Otherwise, they'd be spending like $150M a year on luxtax penalties alone.

With Wiggins' bigger salary incoming, we would probably send Robin Lopez to Golden State as a stopgap replacement at the center position. Lopez is easily better than Wiseman at the moment, so that's an extra benefit if the goal is to win now.


I hear ya, but I also wouldn't put it past the Warriors owners to shrug at 150m lux tax to keep Wiggins over Oubre. They are maniacs.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1909 » by Frichuela » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:26 pm

nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:David Aldridge at the Athletic said in a live Q&A yesterday that trading Wiseman and the Minny Pick for Beal would be too much for Golden State... :roll:

This is what he said exactly:

"Hollinger and I suggested that before the season started as a possibility, but there's no way GSW's giving you Wiseman AND the Minny pick, unless Steph were to insist. And I don't think he would. I'm guessing they play this out, see who the Wolves' pick becomes and hope that Klay can be something approximating his old self next year."

What do you folks think?

IMO- In such scenario, the Wiz should ask for Wiseman, the Minny pick and an extra GS pick at the minimum.

I think Aldridge is wrong.


Agreed.

If we where to trade Beal for Wiseman, Oubre, Minny Pick and GS 2021 pick (21-30 protected, then unprotected):

1) We'll have to make sure we tank hard and assure a top 5 pick in this draft.
2) Hope Minny's pick is conveyed (4-7) this draft.

And then package both to make sure we pick Cunningham or Suggs. Best case, we get lucky with our own pick as top-3 and then pick another player in the 4-7 range (Jalen Johnson?).

In the best case scenario our 2021-22 roster would like:

Westbrook/Troy
Cunningham (or Suggs)/Matthews
Avdija/Jalen Johnson
Rui/Bertans
Wiseman/Bryant

Obviously get rid of Brooks and get a proper coach who can install the right X & Os and discipline 8-)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1910 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:34 pm

If you get Wiseman in a trade: KEEP HIM. Kid is going to be a STAR. Don’t overthink this, folks.

Here’s Steve Kerr on Wiseman:

"I've said it many times," Kerr said during a postgame video conference with reporters, "he's not only talented, but he's got a great head on his shoulders. The way he handled everything the last couple of days, moving to the bench, the way he responded to the media questions, the way he responded in practice; he had a great practice [Tuesday]. So this is a young guy who is very mature and wants to win and competes and works his butt off, so it's pretty exciting."

"Picture yourself at 19," Kerr said. "I've tried to picture myself at 19 putting up with everything that he's had to put up with. It's remarkable. This is a man's league, and you come in with almost zero experience. Three college games, [playing in] a pandemic, nine months of individual workouts and no training camp. It's really stunning how quickly he is picking up things. Again, it's a sign not only of his athletic gifts but, more importantly, his brain, his intelligence, his wisdom beyond his years. It's remarkable to see."
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1911 » by WallToWall » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:45 pm

I would much rather bet the farm on getting KAT here, without trading Beal. Timberwolves are also in tank mode.
Westbrook+ TBjr+ Bonga + however many picks for KAT+ Rubio + Davis. It works in tradenba.com but who knows if the picks are valuable enough to get KAT. Flip Rubio and Davis.
The Timberwolves tank would be preserved for the year with the hobbled Westbrook.
We will also be betting on one (or more) of Bryant, Hach, and/or Avdija to make a leap. Then we will have our "big 3" and have enough of a bench still.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1912 » by Dat2U » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:13 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Asset base, I guess.

But: What collection of youth has ever developed into a championship team? If that is our team then get me Tom Izzo or Jay Wright or Tony Bennett so we can teach fundamentals. Except that in the NBA there is no time to drill players in the basics. Young teams tend to lose, lose, lose, while players learn bad habits and bad chemistry. It makes busts out of strong talent. I for one don't really want Wiseman as the centerpiece of any deal. A team that gives up on a top 3 pick after the 1st year of having him, especially a team with basketball minds like Kerr, Curry and Draymond, that is a player I don't want. I mean okay if Beal asks for a swap then get everything we can, but my impression is Wiseman is soft and undermotivated. As the literal centerpiece of a team that is not what I want to build around. I want supremely talented overachievers, not repeats of Kwame, JaVale, etc.

I'd enthusiastically endorse flipping Wiseman for someone else, either another pick (probably late lotto) or an underrated young player with great work habits and leadership. Would Memphis part with Brandon Clarke or Xavier Tillman? Or maybe trade for a guard with a bulldog mentality like Marcus Smart?

One thing we do have is a group of young guys who are gym rats that want to get better. I don't think we have to worry too much about Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant or Brown getting lazy, even if we lose a lot. And Westbrook should still be a pretty good influence on that front.

I’m telling y’all, if you get Wiseman in a trade: KEEP HIM. Kid is going to be a STAR. Don’t overthink this.

Here’s Steve Kerr on Wiseman:

"I've said it many times," Kerr said during a postgame video conference with reporters, "he's not only talented, but he's got a great head on his shoulders. The way he handled everything the last couple of days, moving to the bench, the way he responded to the media questions, the way he responded in practice; he had a great practice [Tuesday]. So this is a young guy who is very mature and wants to win and competes and works his butt off, so it's pretty exciting."

"Picture yourself at 19," Kerr said. "I've tried to picture myself at 19 putting up with everything that he's had to put up with. It's remarkable. This is a man's league, and you come in with almost zero experience. Three college games, [playing in] a pandemic, nine months of individual workouts and no training camp. It's really stunning how quickly he is picking up things. Again, it's a sign not only of his athletic gifts but, more importantly, his brain, his intelligence, his wisdom beyond his years. It's remarkable to see."


If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1913 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:14 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Asset base, I guess.

But: What collection of youth has ever developed into a championship team? If that is our team then get me Tom Izzo or Jay Wright or Tony Bennett so we can teach fundamentals. Except that in the NBA there is no time to drill players in the basics. Young teams tend to lose, lose, lose, while players learn bad habits and bad chemistry. It makes busts out of strong talent. I for one don't really want Wiseman as the centerpiece of any deal. A team that gives up on a top 3 pick after the 1st year of having him, especially a team with basketball minds like Kerr, Curry and Draymond, that is a player I don't want. I mean okay if Beal asks for a swap then get everything we can, but my impression is Wiseman is soft and undermotivated. As the literal centerpiece of a team that is not what I want to build around. I want supremely talented overachievers, not repeats of Kwame, JaVale, etc.

I'd enthusiastically endorse flipping Wiseman for someone else, either another pick (probably late lotto) or an underrated young player with great work habits and leadership. Would Memphis part with Brandon Clarke or Xavier Tillman? Or maybe trade for a guard with a bulldog mentality like Marcus Smart?

One thing we do have is a group of young guys who are gym rats that want to get better. I don't think we have to worry too much about Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant or Brown getting lazy, even if we lose a lot. And Westbrook should still be a pretty good influence on that front.

Why is Wiseman being so underrated

From what I've seen so far, I feel he's going to have a very productive career


Most of the board sees a very alarming collection of metrics mixed w/nebulous positives that are hard to illustrate concretely is my view. I happen to think if a deal is made w/Golden State it won’t include all the pieces people mention (I suspect the prime assets back are the T Wolves pick and Wiseman) and I highly doubt Wiseman will be flipped. It’s a wish for many of the posters but I suspect he’ll be viewed as a core piece and given tons of minutes more than he’d see this year in Golden State.

I hope we’d get more long term pieces than that but I think Golden State will be tempted to view this as another list year and won’t be willing to give multiple firsts along w/wiseman when they see the window closing soon w/or without Beal and possibly already closed. I hope I’m wrong because a slight overpay in the eyes of warriors fans is almost certainly the best trade available for Beal. Btw, I would also flip Wiseman if we could get legit top picks for ‘21 and ‘23, I definitely would not trade him even up for Halliburton though. I’d be looking for more lottery balls in potentially loaded drafts.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1914 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:23 pm

Dat2U wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd enthusiastically endorse flipping Wiseman for someone else, either another pick (probably late lotto) or an underrated young player with great work habits and leadership. Would Memphis part with Brandon Clarke or Xavier Tillman? Or maybe trade for a guard with a bulldog mentality like Marcus Smart?

One thing we do have is a group of young guys who are gym rats that want to get better. I don't think we have to worry too much about Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant or Brown getting lazy, even if we lose a lot. And Westbrook should still be a pretty good influence on that front.

I’m telling y’all, if you get Wiseman in a trade: KEEP HIM. Kid is going to be a STAR. Don’t overthink this.

Here’s Steve Kerr on Wiseman:

"I've said it many times," Kerr said during a postgame video conference with reporters, "he's not only talented, but he's got a great head on his shoulders. The way he handled everything the last couple of days, moving to the bench, the way he responded to the media questions, the way he responded in practice; he had a great practice [Tuesday]. So this is a young guy who is very mature and wants to win and competes and works his butt off, so it's pretty exciting."

"Picture yourself at 19," Kerr said. "I've tried to picture myself at 19 putting up with everything that he's had to put up with. It's remarkable. This is a man's league, and you come in with almost zero experience. Three college games, [playing in] a pandemic, nine months of individual workouts and no training camp. It's really stunning how quickly he is picking up things. Again, it's a sign not only of his athletic gifts but, more importantly, his brain, his intelligence, his wisdom beyond his years. It's remarkable to see."


If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.


Exactly. People keep acting like he's either Bust or Great... My argument is that even if becomes a top 6-10 Center, how valuable is that?
He's not Embiid, Gobert, or Jokic. He profiles, at best, as the next rung down in the Myles Turner/Capela/Wood/Allen territory.
Really good players...but what is their overall impact?

A Christian Wood/Whiteside hybrid player is really useful in this league, but that is a 3rd option on a good team and 4th option on a contender. If that is his ceiling, then what are we all talking about?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1915 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:39 pm

Dat2U wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd enthusiastically endorse flipping Wiseman for someone else, either another pick (probably late lotto) or an underrated young player with great work habits and leadership. Would Memphis part with Brandon Clarke or Xavier Tillman? Or maybe trade for a guard with a bulldog mentality like Marcus Smart?

One thing we do have is a group of young guys who are gym rats that want to get better. I don't think we have to worry too much about Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant or Brown getting lazy, even if we lose a lot. And Westbrook should still be a pretty good influence on that front.

I’m telling y’all, if you get Wiseman in a trade: KEEP HIM. Kid is going to be a STAR. Don’t overthink this.

Here’s Steve Kerr on Wiseman:

"I've said it many times," Kerr said during a postgame video conference with reporters, "he's not only talented, but he's got a great head on his shoulders. The way he handled everything the last couple of days, moving to the bench, the way he responded to the media questions, the way he responded in practice; he had a great practice [Tuesday]. So this is a young guy who is very mature and wants to win and competes and works his butt off, so it's pretty exciting."

"Picture yourself at 19," Kerr said. "I've tried to picture myself at 19 putting up with everything that he's had to put up with. It's remarkable. This is a man's league, and you come in with almost zero experience. Three college games, [playing in] a pandemic, nine months of individual workouts and no training camp. It's really stunning how quickly he is picking up things. Again, it's a sign not only of his athletic gifts but, more importantly, his brain, his intelligence, his wisdom beyond his years. It's remarkable to see."


If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.


I don’t disagree. I think Wiseman is another in a long line of big man early round bets that miss more than hit in part because so much of evaluating many of them is a ton of projection mixed w/forgetting that other than last years Lakers, such bets haven’t paid off in titles in forever. It’s a different league.

I also think that Wiseman is a call back to the high school era in that he played 3 college games. Three. He’s insanely raw. Aston had 35 college games of experience and the piles of practice mixed in. Wiseman has none of that. You’re basically getting a college freshmen but one drafted by a powerhouse former contender that doesn’t by necessity need to or want to live w/his mistakes this year.

I think he’s a total unknown that’s pure projection right now and holding some of the things people have in terms of long term upside against him as such is a bit silly. I’m just more worried about the relevance of a key asset for the demo of the team being a big man when traditional big men aren’t remotely as vauable to today’s game unless they have a cornucopia of skills which by his limited college resume we can’t really know for now. It’s all projection and hope. I see the potential but I’d rather be getting different pieces in a trade unless we can inflate the hell out of his value by playing him Tons of minutes so teams including ours can see the tantalizing flashes.

I also think Aldridge’s argument makes sense from the Warriors side but is absurd for ours (and it’s another reason why I’m frustrated we didn’t make a deal when teams were making insanely stupid deals before the ‘19-‘20 season etc but that’s another topic. I just think stupid trades like that are less likely now). He needs to realize that if you want an elite top 15-20 player like Beal you do have to at least approach matching his value, not get him on a cut rate discount like the idiot Houston Texans under O’Brien w/all their grand mal idiocy trades.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1916 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:52 pm

Ayton not Aston, I need to stop posting from my phone.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1917 » by Dat2U » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:57 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:Ayton not Aston, I need to stop posting from my phone.


Its all I do now and I always re-read my posts and somehow something is always wrong. An "if" becomes "it" or I leave out "the" and no matter what I do, I still have to edit it after the fact :banghead:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1918 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:58 pm

Dat2U wrote:If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.


Dat, Wiseman is doing a LOT more than dunking. He's showing post up moves in the paint and knocking down fadeaway jumpers, and nice touch.

Don't' believe me? Check out some of his videos, especially the last few games.

And he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, a small sample size.

Wiseman's per 36 numbers are: 20.8pts., 10.1rebs., 2.3blks, 2.9TOs, 0.7stls, 1.1assts.

Clearly, not enough assists and too many turnovers...but he's 19 years old with effectively no college experience, and apparently a smart player and hard worker.

And he's a MUCH more fluid athlete than either Drummond or Ayton. Wiseman will not be your "traditional big man." I repeat: he will not be your "traditional big man."

Personally, I don't think the Warriors trade him...even for Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1919 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:02 pm

DCZards wrote:
Dat2U wrote:If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.


Dat, Wiseman is doing a LOT more than dunking. He's showing post up moves in the paint and knocking down fadeaway jumpers, and nice touch.

Don't' believe me? Check out some of his videos, especially the last few games.

And he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, a small sample size.

Wiseman's per 36 numbers are: 20.8pts., 10.1rebs., 2.3blks, 2.9TOs, 0.7stls, 1.1assts.

Clearly, not enough assists and too many turnovers...but he's 19 years old with effectively no college experience, and apparently a smart player and hard worker.

And he's a MUCH more fluid athlete than either Drummond or Ayton. Kinda reminds me of KG.

Personally, I don't think the Warriors trade him...even for Beal.

Wiseman has potential, but he is unquestionably a very bad player right now. If Golden State intends to try and compete for a ring at least one more time in Curry's career, they will have to trade Wiseman. They can't afford to wait the 4-5 years it would take to develop him into a plus player if they could instead use his value to get an elite win-now prospect like Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1920 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:30 pm

nate33 wrote:Wiseman has potential, but he is unquestionably a very bad player right now. If Golden State intends to try and compete for a ring at least one more time in Curry's career, they will have to trade Wiseman. They can't afford to wait the 4-5 years it would take to develop him into a plus player if they could instead use his value to get an elite win-now prospect like Beal.

You may be right...OR the Warriors may be looking at the return of Klay to team with Curry & Green; an improved Wiggins; a really nice role player in Paschall; a Wiseman with considerable upside; the Minny draft pick; and their own probable lottery pick.

I believe GS stands pat and doesn't mortgage the future for Beal.

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