Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[sportscrazy]

Whiteside is getting maxed. Guys like Millsap and Horford as well most likely. Like I've said--anyone you'd actually want is almost certainly going to be retained by the team with their bird rights.

So you've got two options if KD doesn't sign. If he signs a 1 year deal, then I'd highly suggest grinding your teeth and giving it another go. The way things are trending right now I can't imagine OKC continuing after 1 or 2 more failed post seasons.

Which means another mediocre year. Do some overpays to get decent replacements for the guys you lose--get them on one year deals. Hibbert as a backup C with a chance to become the future C if he can show something, JJ Hickson, Al Jeff, etc. Maybe Porter emerges in combination with your free agent pieces being good, maybe Oubre becomes a rotation guy. Just do enough to scrape by again.

After that, if still no Durant then the next target has to be Cousins who would likely be traded by the deadline of his final season in Sac town barring a miracle.

As a totally outside observer, I think that if KD signs the 1+1 deal with OKC this summer, that despite the fans hating the plan of waiting for the potential of possibility getting KD yet another year, I think management has invested so heavily into that, they would wait one more season. The plus side of waiting is that 2017 offers a whole bunch of great options as Plan B's.

[Illmatic12]

Whiteside is getting maxed. Guys like Millsap and Horford as well most likely. Like I've said--anyone you'd actually want is almost certainly going to be retained by the team with their bird rights.

So you've got two options if KD doesn't sign. If he signs a 1 year deal, then I'd highly suggest grinding your teeth and giving it another go. The way things are trending right now I can't imagine OKC continuing after 1 or 2 more failed post seasons.

Which means another mediocre year. Do some overpays to get decent replacements for the guys you lose--get them on one year deals. Hibbert as a backup C with a chance to become the future C if he can show something, JJ Hickson, Al Jeff, etc. Maybe Porter emerges in combination with your free agent pieces being good, maybe Oubre becomes a rotation guy. Just do enough to scrape by again.

After that, if still no Durant then the next target has to be Cousins who would likely be traded by the deadline of his final season in Sac town barring a miracle.

FYI the Heat don't actually have Whiteside's bird rights, because they didn't draft him. They also have to extend Wade, who's probably going to demand a 'Kobe'-contract from the Heat organization for his years of service.

I think Riley could re-sign both with some maneuvering, but keeping Whiteside isn't going to be straightforward process for them.

Choosing between the two would be an absolute no-brainer decision for the Heat. Whiteside has a future; Wade has a great past. That said, I agree that they'll be able to keep both if they want. My guess is they'll try and land a premiere free agent and keep Whiteside.

I can't see them allowing Wade to leave (he's the type of guy who they want to play his whole career with the Heat, like Kobe and the Lakers, Dirk and the Mavs, Duncan etc).

The issue for Miami imo is more that Whiteside is UFA and free to go where he pleases, they can't control what he decides to do. With him being a young and upcoming player, I could see Whiteside being tempted to go elsewhere and be more of a focal point. The Heat don't give him many touches, and that's not going to change for as long as Wade and Bosh are there longterm. The Wiz could sell him on playing with an elite pass-first PG, who would make him look better than Andre Drummond (in terms of being an All-Star starter and getting hype, that's what he would want to hear).

[Dat2U]

If Durant signs a 1 + 1 deal this off-season with OKC giving him the option to be a free agent in 2017, which of the 3 options is most likely for Washington?

1. Totally rebuild - Trade John Wall, Marcin Gortat, etc. for as many picks and prospects as possible.

2. Sign as many productive players as possible - Sign Nicolas Batum, Ryan Anderson and others around your current core.

3. Keep the Durant or bust philosophy - Preserve cap space again until 2017 in hopes Durant would sign there.

I would not do a total rebuild. Wall is only 25, a top 15-ish player on a cap-friendly deal and we have a ton of cap space. Beal & Porter are only 22 and are legit starters in the league. Oubre is only 19.

Depending on how Beal develops as the season goes on, I may be open to dealing him to avoid maxing him out. Either way, I likely send out signals via the media that maxing him out is a given to dissuade other teams from throwing an offer sheet and play hard ball this off-season to see if he'll take less. If Beal goes into breakout mode, he's coming back. If he shows improvement & consistency over the 2nd half and stays health, he's likely coming back. Only if he doesn't improve or regress would I consider dealing him. Or if a deal for Cousins becomes an option.

At this stage I would deal Beal, Gortat, Porter & picks for Cousins without hesitation. Having Wall & Cousins on affordable deals with a ton of cap room to surround them with shooters/defenders is an ideal situation IMO. Some might say it's too much. I'd say Beal at a starting salary of $21 mil vs. Cousins at $16 mil for next 2 years (beyond this season) makes it worth it. Durant if he signs a 1 + 1 could still potentially be in play if we've traded Beal+ for Cousins and we avoid going crazy in 2016 free agency.

As far as 2016 free agency... here are a few of the names that catch my attention as guys that might be a good value on their next deal.

SF Kent Bazemore
CE Jared Sullinger (RFA)
SF Joe Johnson
PF Marvin Williams
PF Anthony Tolliver
PG Brandon Jennings
CE Festus Ezeli (RFA)
CE Ian Mahinmi
SF Wesley Johnson (P)
PF Ryan Kelly (RFA)
PF Brandon Bass (P)
SF Matt Barnes
PG Tyler Johnson (RFA)
PG Jerryd Bayless
PG Langston Galloway (RFA)
CE Dewayne Dedmon (RFA)
GF Evan Fournier (RFA)
PF Andrew Nicholson (RFA)
PF Jon Leuer
PF Mirza Teletovic
CE Meyers Leonard (RFA)
CE Bismack Biyombo (P)
PF James Johnson

I really like Festus Ezeli, Evan Fournier, Jon Leuer & James Johnson out of the names above. Depending on the price and his conditioning, I would be very interested in Jared Sullinger too.

[Illmatic12]

Whiteside is getting maxed. Guys like Millsap and Horford as well most likely. Like I've said--anyone you'd actually want is almost certainly going to be retained by the team with their bird rights.

So you've got two options if KD doesn't sign. If he signs a 1 year deal, then I'd highly suggest grinding your teeth and giving it another go. The way things are trending right now I can't imagine OKC continuing after 1 or 2 more failed post seasons.

Which means another mediocre year. Do some overpays to get decent replacements for the guys you lose--get them on one year deals. Hibbert as a backup C with a chance to become the future C if he can show something, JJ Hickson, Al Jeff, etc. Maybe Porter emerges in combination with your free agent pieces being good, maybe Oubre becomes a rotation guy. Just do enough to scrape by again.

After that, if still no Durant then the next target has to be Cousins who would likely be traded by the deadline of his final season in Sac town barring a miracle.

As a totally outside observer, I think that if KD signs the 1+1 deal with OKC this summer, that despite the fans hating the plan of waiting for the potential of possibility getting KD yet another year, I think management has invested so heavily into that, they would wait one more season. The plus side of waiting is that 2017 offers a whole bunch of great options as Plan B's.

That would be tempting, no doubt. Even if the Wiz strike out on KD in 2017, there are a host of other options that I actually think could be more realistic than Durant.

The Clips imo are going to fall apart soon, Blake Griffin will be testing his options by 2017. OKC could also experience a fallout imo and Ibaka will be a UFA.

The other option mentioned above, I strongly believe that Cousins will try to play with Wall at some point in his career. In fact I could see a scenario where he makes it clear that he specifically wants to come to DC (like what Melo did with the Knicks).

[TheSecretWeapon]

I can't see them allowing Wade to leave (he's the type of guy who they want to play his whole career with the Heat, like Kobe and the Lakers, Dirk and the Mavs, Duncan etc).

This is the kind of thinking that left the Lakers handcuffed to Kobe for dreadful seasons. Smart move is to prioritize younger players with a promising future over a "thanks for the memories" extension. Giving Wade an extension over signing a Durant-like free agent and/or re-signing Whiteside is effectively communicating that the Heat aren't serious about winning until Wade's contract is up because he just isn't that guy any more.

The issue for Miami imo is more that Whiteside is UFA and free to go where he pleases, they can't control what he decides to do. With him being a young and upcoming player, I could see Whiteside being tempted to go elsewhere and be more of a focal point. The Heat don't give him many touches, and that's not going to change for as long as Wade and Bosh are there longterm. The Wiz could sell him on playing with an elite pass-first PG, who would make him look better than Andre Drummond (in terms of being an All-Star starter and getting hype, that's what he would want to hear).

Yeah, that UFA status coupled with not having Bird rights makes things a little dicey for the Heat. They have basically no advantage over anyone else. In terms of touches -- maybe, if that's something that's really important to him. His usage is about average. His true shooting attempts are about average.

And, there's an easy solution for Wade dominating touches.

The Heat just cannot imagine Wade being around for any kind of long term. He's 34 now, his production is significantly diminished, and his body has been wearing/breaking down the past several seasons. I think this year might be his "thanks for the memories" deal.

[nate33]

If Durant signs a 1 + 1 deal this off-season with OKC giving him the option to be a free agent in 2017, which of the 3 options is most likely for Washington?

1. Totally rebuild - Trade John Wall, Marcin Gortat, etc. for as many picks and prospects as possible.

2. Sign as many productive players as possible - Sign Nicolas Batum, Ryan Anderson and others around your current core.

3. Keep the Durant or bust philosophy - Preserve cap space again until 2017 in hopes Durant would sign there.

I would not do a total rebuild. Wall is only 25, a top 15-ish player on a cap-friendly deal and we have a ton of cap space. Beal & Porter are only 22 and are legit starters in the league. Oubre is only 19.

Depending on how Beal develops as the season goes on, I may be open to dealing him to avoid maxing him out. Either way, I likely send out signals via the media that maxing him out is a given to dissuade other teams from throwing an offer sheet and play hard ball this off-season to see if he'll take less. If Beal goes into breakout mode, he's coming back. If he shows improvement & consistency over the 2nd half and stays health, he's likely coming back. Only if he doesn't improve or regress would I consider dealing him. Or if a deal for Cousins becomes an option.

At this stage I would deal Beal, Gortat, Porter & picks for Cousins without hesitation. Having Wall & Cousins on affordable deals with a ton of cap room to surround them with shooters/defenders is an ideal situation IMO. Some might say it's too much. I'd say Beal at a starting salary of $21 mil vs. Cousins at $16 mil for next 2 years (beyond this season) makes it worth it. Durant if he signs a 1 + 1 could still potentially be in play if we've traded Beal+ for Cousins and we avoid going crazy in 2016 free agency.

As far as 2016 free agency... here are a few of the names that catch my attention as guys that might be a good value on their next deal.

SF Kent Bazemore
CE Jared Sullinger (RFA)
SF Joe Johnson
PF Marvin Williams
PF Anthony Tolliver
PG Brandon Jennings
CE Festus Ezeli (RFA)
CE Ian Mahinmi
SF Wesley Johnson (P)
PF Ryan Kelly (RFA)
PF Brandon Bass (P)
SF Matt Barnes
PG Tyler Johnson (RFA)
PG Jerryd Bayless
PG Langston Galloway (RFA)
CE Dewayne Dedmon (RFA)
GF Evan Fournier (RFA)
PF Andrew Nicholson (RFA)
PF Jon Leuer
PF Mirza Teletovic
CE Meyers Leonard (RFA)
CE Bismack Biyombo (P)
PF James Johnson

I really like Festus Ezeli, Evan Fournier, Jon Leuer & James Johnson out of the names above. Depending on the price and his conditioning, I would be very interested in Jared Sullinger too.

Jon Leuer is definitely a guy that interests me. Even if we land Durant, we'd probably still have enough cap room to squeeze Leuer under the cap.

I'm not interested in any of those old guys like Johnson and Barnes. Not unless we get them for virtually nothing.

[nate33]

If we do decide to save our powder for 2017, I wonder if we could make a couple of wink-wink deals with free agents where we overpay them generously for 2016 in exchange for them agreeing to sign a below market deal in 2017. It's illegal for it to be a formal deal, but what about an informal one? I'm thinking that we sign a guy like Sessions for 2 years, $10M. But in reality, sign him to a 1-year deal that pays him $8M, and then next year sign him to a 1-year deal that pays him $2M.

[Illmatic12]

I can't see them allowing Wade to leave (he's the type of guy who they want to play his whole career with the Heat, like Kobe and the Lakers, Dirk and the Mavs, Duncan etc).

This is the kind of thinking that left the Lakers handcuffed to Kobe for dreadful seasons. Smart move is to prioritize younger players with a promising future over a "thanks for the memories" extension. Giving Wade an extension over signing a Durant-like free agent and/or re-signing Whiteside is effectively communicating that the Heat aren't serious about winning until Wade's contract is up because he just isn't that guy any more.

The issue for Miami imo is more that Whiteside is UFA and free to go where he pleases, they can't control what he decides to do. With him being a young and upcoming player, I could see Whiteside being tempted to go elsewhere and be more of a focal point. The Heat don't give him many touches, and that's not going to change for as long as Wade and Bosh are there longterm. The Wiz could sell him on playing with an elite pass-first PG, who would make him look better than Andre Drummond (in terms of being an All-Star starter and getting hype, that's what he would want to hear).

Yeah, that UFA status coupled with not having Bird rights makes things a little dicey for the Heat. They have basically no advantage over anyone else. In terms of touches -- maybe, if that's something that's really important to him. His usage is about average. His true shooting attempts are about average.

And, there's an easy solution for Wade dominating touches.

The Heat just cannot imagine Wade being around for any kind of long term. He's 34 now, his production is significantly diminished, and his body has been wearing/breaking down the past several seasons. I think this year might be his "thanks for the memories" deal.

Wow, I thought Wade was younger than 34 for some reason. And his body is even older.

I actually do think Miami are susceptible to being handcuffed to Wade. Everyone knew the massive Kobe extension was stupid and they still gave it to him - and watch the Heat will do the exact same thing with Wade imo. From what I've heard from Heat fans, they're very worried about that exact scenario. Teams don't always make the 'smart' moves, they're run like a business and winning isn't always #1.

If Miami makes a playoff run, it would be hard for Riley not to bring Wade back, and still sell the team to loyal fans, or preach about how the Heat 'take care of their players' and so on. I'm sure every other team is hoping they give Wade a massive legacy max contract

[Dark Faze]

that being said--the thunder are 12-8--if the season keeps going like it is and the thunder have a disappointing post season, I don't see the point at all at giving it another year

one thing I said earlier about the 1 year deal thing--its a free chance for KD to give us a try for a year and then if it doesn't work out he always has the option to go elsewhere--he's seen OKC for 8-9 years now, giving them another year would be a tough decision for him if he was at all on the cliff--because otherwise wherever he locks into after that--its over. The 1 year opportunity should realistically be used to try out another situation to see if its worth it.

[queridiculo]

Yeah so.... this suggestion is going to be really popular around here.. Josh Smith, anyone?

Apparently on the trade block following a shouting match with his former head coach Mike Woodson.

[Dark Faze]

One thing I've thought about is the idea that we really need an athletic finisher at the PF position that's tough, energetic, and can hit the glass really well. Think how Nene played for us in the Chicago series, how Gibson played in that series...I want to go back to that brand of basketball. I think its the most sustainable, the best defensively, and less injury prone.

Ideally I'd like to move on from Gortat for a swap with Hibbert. Hibbert is comfortable here in DC due to the Georgetown connection and we might be able to get him on the cheap. I'd actually make that move at the deadline.

I like Faried. I get excited thinking about the energy he and Wall would have every night. We can't use Nene's contract to get him--that's Durants money. So I'd pull the trigger on an all in for Durant move of offering Porter, Hump, and 17 lottery protected pick for Faried.

Wall/Sessions
Beal/Neal
Anderson/Oubre
Faried/Dudley
Hibbert/Nene

Then ideally next year

Wall/Sessions or FA
Beal/Neal or FA
Durant/Oubre
Faried/FA
Hibbert/1st rounder

[queridiculo]

If Durant signs a 1 + 1 deal this off-season with OKC giving him the option to be a free agent in 2017, which of the 3 options is most likely for Washington?

1. Totally rebuild - Trade John Wall, Marcin Gortat, etc. for as many picks and prospects as possible.

2. Sign as many productive players as possible - Sign Nicolas Batum, Ryan Anderson and others around your current core.

3. Keep the Durant or bust philosophy - Preserve cap space again until 2017 in hopes Durant would sign there.

I certainly wouldn't do a rebuild if trading John Wall is a part of it.

He's on an extremely favorable deal, he's just entering his prime as a player and while his game clearly has some warts, and he's an underdog undeniably driven to be a great player. He's the type of guy you try to build a team around, not move him in a bid to rebuild.

Also, if a rebuild is on the mind you have to essentially start right now.

Beal isn't going to stick around as a free agent with Wall gone, and it's questionable if you'd even want to at some of the rumored price tags. You would have to make a trade before the deadline and milk him for everything you can get.

I'm not a believer. If I had any say I'd call Vlade Divac and try to swing a deal of Beal for Cauly-Stein and either a first rounder or Ben McLemore.

Washington isn't going to make the playoffs this year, and I don't think Beal is the right fit for Washington alongside Wall.

The Wizards need a two guard that can create of the dribble, Beal tries hard, but I don't think he'll ever be that guy.

[Dark Faze]

Pretty much all the Beal frustration comes from the fact that he's our only hope for developing a first option offensive player--and he's not living up to it.

He's beyond perfect next to Durant and Wall, or Wall and any kind of a 1A offensive guy you can dump the ball into.

EVERYONE IS GETTING PAID. Is Beal worth 20 million? Lol no, but anyboddddddddddddddy is getting max these days. Grab Gallo and you'll pay him max in a couple of years. CJ Miles would catch a max if his contract was ending this year and he kept up 45-50-85 or whatever he's shooting right now.

[sportscrazy]

If Durant signs a 1 + 1 deal this off-season with OKC giving him the option to be a free agent in 2017, which of the 3 options is most likely for Washington?

1. Totally rebuild - Trade John Wall, Marcin Gortat, etc. for as many picks and prospects as possible.

2. Sign as many productive players as possible - Sign Nicolas Batum, Ryan Anderson and others around your current core.

3. Keep the Durant or bust philosophy - Preserve cap space again until 2017 in hopes Durant would sign there.

I certainly wouldn't do a rebuild if trading John Wall is a part of it.

He's on an extremely favorable deal, he's just entering his prime as a player and while his game clearly has some warts, and he's an underdog undeniably driven to be a great player. He's the type of guy you try to build a team around, not move him in a bid to rebuild.

Also, if a rebuild is on the mind you have to essentially start right now.

Beal isn't going to stick around as a free agent with Wall gone, and it's questionable if you'd even want to at some of the rumored price tags. You would have to make a trade before the deadline and milk him for everything you can get.

I'm not a believer. If I had any say I'd call Vlade Divac and try to swing a deal of Beal for Cauly-Stein and either a first rounder or Ben McLemore.

Washington isn't going to make the playoffs this year, and I don't think Beal is the right fit for Washington alongside Wall.

The Wizards need a two guard that can create of the dribble, Beal tries hard, but I don't think he'll ever be that guy.

With Colangelo in Philly now, I wonder if they would take a shot at a young player that isn't a rookie such as Beal. While they can offer a deal to him outright using cap space, Beal's restricted free agency obviously means Washington can match. If the Wizards didn't want to match a big offer for Beal, but didn't want to lose him for nothing either, what would be a fair value for them to get back from the 76ers either straight up or in a multi-team deal?

I could see...

Philadelphia gets:
Bradley Beal (signed and traded)

Washington gets:
Player(s) from Team X

Team X gets:
Traded Player Exception(s) via Philly cap space
Fair Value Of Future Draft Pick(s) via Philly's arsenal of picks

[Dark Faze]

god no

I don't want any more picks. I'm ready to effing win now. IT's time.

[nate33]

Ideally I'd like to move on from Gortat for a swap with Hibbert. Hibbert is comfortable here in DC due to the Georgetown connection and we might be able to get him on the cheap. I'd actually make that move at the deadline.

Hibbert is awful. The game has left him behind. He is just too immobile so teams counter by matching him up with a floor stretching big. Even if it's just an undersized PF, Hibbert lacks the low post ability to punish him at the other end. It takes him out of the game.

His on/off differential is -7.8 while playing for the 2nd worst team in the league. His +/- is -13.5 when he is on the court.

Gortat is a much better player. He has the mobility to at least respectably challenge a perimeter oriented big, and he has the size and skill to make a team pay if they try to go small. With Gortat, we can dictate the matchups. With Hibbert, we can't.

[Dark Faze]

Gortat isn't matching up with any stretch smalls either lol

Any Laker fan I talk to says the team would be in effing dungeons without Hibbert--and it matches the eye test. I think the Pacers would be a much better team if they still had him. You can't get scared away by small ball. You'll lose some unfavorable matchups--but right now we have zero rim protection with Gortat and its resulting in our guards running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the perimeter trying to deny absolutely every action--jumpshot, drive, everything because they don't expect help.

edit: And regarding on/off numbers--that second unit for the Lakers is much better than the first. Lou Williams, Nick Young, Bass--they don't have a guy in that unit that shoots 30% FG on high usage, so of course on/off stats for Hibbz will be terrible playing next to Kobe

[Dat2U]

Faried is a non-starter to me. The game has moved away from rebounding freaks who can't space the floor or play high level defense at the 4.

[Dat2U]

Gortat isn't matching up with any stretch smalls either lol

Any Laker fan I talk to says the team would be in effing dungeons without Hibbert--and it matches the eye test. I think the Pacers would be a much better team if they still had him. You can't get scared away by small ball. You'll lose some unfavorable matchups--but right now we have zero rim protection with Gortat and its resulting in our guards running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the perimeter trying to deny absolutely every action--jumpshot, drive, everything because they don't expect help.

edit: And regarding on/off numbers--that second unit for the Lakers is much better than the first. Lou Williams, Nick Young, Bass--they don't have a guy in that unit that shoots 30% FG on high usage, so of course on/off stats for Hibbz will be terrible playing next to Kobe

The Pacers are actually much better with Ian Mahinmi who offers the same rim protection at a fraction of the cost and twice the foot speed.

[krii]

"but right now we have zero rim protection with Gortat and its resulting in our guards running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the perimeter trying to deny absolutely every action--jumpshot, drive, everything because they don't expect help."
I like this "zero rim protection with Gortat" talks. It's almost like saying "Gortat's **** defensively" whilst he is one the best defensive centers in the game. I mean ... it's okay to say that MG isn't anywhere near Shaq or Duncan but "zero rim protection" means that Gortat is worser than, say, Kevin Seraphin. Whoa. Fun fact - he isn't.