Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Would you guys do a Wiggins + Oubre + Minny's 2021 Top-3 Protected for Beal + Thomas Bryant or Robin Lopez (To make salaries work)?

[nate33]

Wiseman has potential, but he is unquestionably a very bad player right now. If Golden State intends to try and compete for a ring at least one more time in Curry's career, they will have to trade Wiseman. They can't afford to wait the 4-5 years it would take to develop him into a plus player if they could instead use his value to get an elite win-now prospect like Beal.

You may be right...OR the Warriors may be looking at the return of Klay to team with Curry & Green; an improved Wiggins; a really nice role player in Paschall; a Wiseman with considerable upside; the Minny draft pick; and their own probable lottery pick.

I believe GS stands pat and doesn't mortgage the future for Beal.

By failing to make a trade, they are sacrificing the now for the future, a future when Curry will no longer be a superstar player.

[nate33]

Would you guys do a Wiggins + Oubre + Minny's 2021 Top-3 Protected for Beal + Thomas Bryant or Robin Lopez (To make salaries work)?

No. You need to include more than just the MIN pick and bad contracts.

The deal starts at Beal + Lopez for Wiggins + Wiseman + MIN pick. From there, it's a matter of haggling over how many future picks Golden State needs to include. Perhaps it's just the 2021 pick, but probably their 2026 pick too.

[TGW]

Would you guys do a Wiggins + Oubre + Minny's 2021 Top-3 Protected for Beal + Thomas Bryant or Robin Lopez (To make salaries work)?

What are you, nuts? You want us to take your crap contracts and give you one of the best guards in the league for a protected lottery pick?

Fine, how about Westbrook and a top 3 protected pick for Curry. That fair to you?

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Would you guys do a Wiggins + Oubre + Minny's 2021 Top-3 Protected for Beal + Thomas Bryant or Robin Lopez (To make salaries work)?

What are you, nuts? You want us to take your crap contracts and give you one of the best guards in the league for a protected lottery pick?

Fine, how about Westbrook and a top 3 protected pick for Curry. That fair to you?

Someone's been sleeping on the wrong side of the bed since the start of the season. jk.

Yeah, Wiseman will be included in this trade instead of Oubre. Is that fair?

[TGW]

Would you guys do a Wiggins + Oubre + Minny's 2021 Top-3 Protected for Beal + Thomas Bryant or Robin Lopez (To make salaries work)?

What are you, nuts? You want us to take your crap contracts and give you one of the best guards in the league for a protected lottery pick?

Fine, how about Westbrook and a top 3 protected pick for Curry. That fair to you?

Someone's been sleeping on the wrong side of the bed since the start of the season. jk.

Yeah, Wiseman will be included in this trade instead of Oubre. Is that fair?

See nate above.

[prime1time]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

[The Consiglieri]

Ayton not Aston, I need to stop posting from my phone.

Its all I do now and I always re-read my posts and somehow something is always wrong. An "if" becomes "it" or I leave out "the" and no matter what I do, I still have to edit it after the fact

I wish mine were just one error. Mine tend to be littered w/them to the point of inscrutability.

[nate33]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

Sheppard has steadfastly avoided trading any picks or young prospects for win-now guys. The only exception was the Wall trade which clearly was made for non basketball reasons, and probably pushed by Leonsis.

The other issue is that we can't afford another star player without crippling luxtax payments. You simply can't add a star to a team that is already paying Beal and Westbrook max contracts.

[Shoe]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

Our 2021 first rounder is more likely to be traded than Beal IMO. I bet they're looking for their own Jrue Holiday to encourage Beal to re-sign.

[The Consiglieri]

If he turns around and trades him, then you know.

I don’t what it is about this kid but I've seen alot of media & scouts talk about him like he's got next. I think he fits the old school standard of a #1 pick that old heads love so much. A physically imposing big that can run the floor, anchor a defense and dunk everything. Except he can't anchor a defense and there's not enough skill to offset that. He has to add alot of skill and really become quicker on both sides of the ball.

We can look back on this in a few years and you'll tell me then you don't look in the past lol but if DeAndre Ayton can't have a huge impact in his 3rd season, he's playing with Chris Paul and he was better prospect coming out... its hard for to imagine a scenario where Wiseman is going to be anything better than what Andre Drummond has been.

Dat, Wiseman is doing a LOT more than dunking. He's showing post up moves in the paint and knocking down fadeaway jumpers, and nice touch.

Don't' believe me? Check out some of his videos, especially the last few games.

And he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, a small sample size.

Wiseman's per 36 numbers are: 20.8pts., 10.1rebs., 2.3blks, 2.9TOs, 0.7stls, 1.1assts.

Clearly, not enough assists and too many turnovers...but he's 19 years old with effectively no college experience, and apparently a smart player and hard worker.

And he's a MUCH more fluid athlete than either Drummond or Ayton. Wiseman will not be your "traditional big man." I repeat: he will not be your "traditional big man."

Personally, I don't think the Warriors trade him...even for Beal.

Pin traditional big men on me, I don’t think Dat said that, I did, and I don’t really mean it considering I think Wiseman is just really a blank canvas of potential. He’s played like 470 minutes of basketball since high school and nearly as importantly has barely any practice of that College/NBA level training either. Aston had thousands of minutes of practice and 1172 minutes of game time in the books before he was drafted compared to Wisemans 69.

We just don’t know, all we have out the barest of sketches.I’m tempted and excited but also really concerned about a key piece being so opaque. Otoh the deals mentioned on the main board are execrable. The Miami offer built around a flash of the pan playoff run (like building a deal around Robert Harry’s playoff magic). is borderline absurd. I like Herro well enough, he’s a player that’s a final piece in a big trade though, he’s not the prime piece, he’s the last asset thrown in to turn a no into a maybe or a maybe into a yes. Honestly it’s an insult offer to build a deal around him to me. It’s silly.

I will say I’m worried we’re approaching Harden/Deshaun Watson territory now where a demand could come and cut 15-35% of the expected compensation out if we wait too long. Much better to act from stronger leverage then to wait for the discount offers “cause Beal’s leaving anyway”. Hoping we don’t wait that long but I am worried. I hate almost all the ideas I’ve seen.

[payitforward]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

I'm not sure I totally understand, prime -- mostly b/c of the word "lacking" which you use.

Do you mean we keep our "our firsts and pick swaps and our young players" -- but we still "get back a star?" If so -- please make that happen!

If instead you mean we sacrifice (some of? most of?) our picks & young players to get back a star -- it's not really a question of "if it's the best move." It's an impossible move.

Why is it hard to understand this, I wonder? We are paying 3 guys $85m this year. Next year, we owe those same 3 players $94. Let's suppose the "star" you want to add is KAT. Supposing that we mortgage our future & somehow manage to trade for him. In that case, next year we will owe 4 players (KAT plus the previous 3) @$122m.

Do I really have to flesh it out any further for it to be clear that this is just plain impossible?

[nate33]

When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.

[Shoe]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

Sheppard has steadfastly avoided trading any picks or young prospects for win-now guys. The only exception was the Wall trade which clearly was made for non basketball reasons, and probably pushed by Leonsis.

The other issue is that we can't afford another star player without crippling luxtax payments. You simply can't add a star to a team that is already paying Beal and Westbrook max contracts.

Oh those are good points. Beal and Westbrook are going to make close to $80 mil next year. But I think if they can make it work financially they have no qualms trading our pick. They want Beal to re sign.

[DCZards]

Wiseman has potential, but he is unquestionably a very bad player right now. If Golden State intends to try and compete for a ring at least one more time in Curry's career, they will have to trade Wiseman. They can't afford to wait the 4-5 years it would take to develop him into a plus player if they could instead use his value to get an elite win-now prospect like Beal.

You may be right...OR the Warriors may be looking at the return of Klay to team with Curry & Green; an improved Wiggins; a really nice role player in Paschall; a Wiseman with considerable upside; the Minny draft pick; and their own probable lottery pick.

I believe GS stands pat and doesn't mortgage the future for Beal.

By failing to make a trade, they are sacrificing the now for the future, a future when Curry will no longer be a superstar player.

With 3 recent championships in their pocket, GS might be willing to make that sacrifice in order to remain competitive in the post-Curry era.

[Ruzious]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

Wiz have the single worst record in the NBA. If they keep Beal that will improve - but probably not enough to fool anyone into thinking they're going anywhere.

[WallToWall]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

I'm not sure I totally understand, prime -- mostly b/c of the word "lacking" which you use.

Do you mean we keep our "our firsts and pick swaps and our young players" -- but we still "get back a star?" If so -- please make that happen!

If instead you mean we sacrifice (some of? most of?) our picks & young players to get back a star -- it's not really a question of "if it's the best move." It's an impossible move.

Why is it hard to understand this, I wonder? We are paying 3 guys $85m this year. Next year, we owe those same 3 players $94. Let's suppose the "star" you want to add is KAT. Supposing that we mortgage our future & somehow manage to trade for him. In that case, next year we will owe 4 players (KAT plus the previous 3) @$122m.

Do I really have to flesh it out any further for it to be clear that this is just plain impossible?

Perhaps I dont understand. In order to get KAT, we will have to trade and "equivalent" amount of salary. So, hypothetically speaking (isn't all this hypothetical?), we trade Westbrook as the outgoing salary. We add picks and players that the Wolves value...say, TBjr + Bonga + however many picks. No?
https://tradenba.com/trades/diLncD7FM
We still have 2 very good players in Beal and KAT. Then we see who rises from among Bryant, Avidja, and Hach.

[nate33]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

I'm not sure I totally understand, prime -- mostly b/c of the word "lacking" which you use.

Do you mean we keep our "our firsts and pick swaps and our young players" -- but we still "get back a star?" If so -- please make that happen!

If instead you mean we sacrifice (some of? most of?) our picks & young players to get back a star -- it's not really a question of "if it's the best move." It's an impossible move.

Why is it hard to understand this, I wonder? We are paying 3 guys $85m this year. Next year, we owe those same 3 players $94. Let's suppose the "star" you want to add is KAT. Supposing that we mortgage our future & somehow manage to trade for him. In that case, next year we will owe 4 players (KAT plus the previous 3) @$122m.

Do I really have to flesh it out any further for it to be clear that this is just plain impossible?

Perhaps I dont understand. In order to get KAT, we will have to trade and "equivalent" amount of salary. So, hypothetically speaking (isn't all this hypothetical?), we trade Westbrook as the outgoing salary. We add picks and players that the Wolves value...say, TBjr + Bonga + however many picks. No?
https://tradenba.com/trades/diLncD7FM
We still have 2 very good players in Beal and KAT. Then we see who rises from among Bryant, Avidja, and Hach.

There aren't enough future picks in the world to package with Westbrook to get KAT.

[Shoe]

What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.

Wiz have the single worst record in the NBA. If they keep Beal that will improve - but probably not enough to fool anyone into thinking they're going anywhere.

Wow the 4th worst team has double our wins.

[trast66]

When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.

I don't know, if that Bertans deal was not a panic move then we can put it in the stupid category.