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Deni Avdija

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Do you like this pick?

Yes
94
73%
No
21
16%
Don't care
14
11%
 
Total votes: 129

prime1time
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1921 » by prime1time » Mon Mar 6, 2023 8:02 am

Wizraeli wrote:
prime1time wrote:The game tonight shows what Avdija can bring to the table. It's silly to say that Avdija does not have to make 3's. The Nets were literally leaving him wide open and forcing him to shoot. He attempted 9 3's and made 4 of them. As far as the aggressiving driving goes, people need to be realistic. A year ago, the man was afraid to even attack the hoop. Now we are comparing him to elite scorers like Dwayne Wade and Jimmy Butler. With regards to his aggressive driving, this game again shows a good barometer. Avdija aggressively attacked the hoop, but to be honest he was mostly bailed out by the fact that the Nets insisted on fouling him. If you want to judge a players ability with the ball, look at what happens at the end of games when the score is tonight.

Other than a wide open 3 in the corner that he made, Avdija (if I recall correctly) had two turnovers with the ball in his hand and mostly avoided creating offense. The offense ran through Porzingis until he fouled out. Then through Morris. Finally, we diagrammed a play for Kispert off of the timeout. It's not a knock on Avdija to say that he needs to shoot better. Good shooting will by him time to improve other parts of his game. Lastly, this game shows how the good defense is just a myth. Yes Avdija did a great job generating steals off ball, but the way people talk about his defense on this board you'd think he'd be the second coming of Scottie Pippen or Kawhi Leonard.

Cam Thomas absolutely torched us. We had no answer for him. And to show just how little the Nets thought of Avdija's defense, they actually sought out Avdija for the switch on the last play of the game. Avdija is actually fornuate in the sense that for the previous 49 games his shot attempts from 3 were so low. At 2.1 3's attempted a game and 49 games, that comes out to about 103 3's attempted before tonight. Tonight alone Avdija shot 9 3's. If he can keep up this shooting, his percentage will rise in no time.

For people who believe that we should put the ball in Avdija's hands and just let him create, let me point out that we just lost to a starless Nets team. Porzingis played amazing and Avdija knocked down 3's. A team where Deni Avdija is just allowed to create is on the fast tract to being one of the 5 worst teams in the league. And with the lottery pick they'd have, they'd be trying to draft a player who can create (ergo taking the role from Avdija).

Lastly, when Beal, Kuzma and Porzingis are healthy Avdija's role will be to stretch the floor and make smart plays. His opportunity to create off the dribble will be significantly cut. So celebrating aspects of his game that do not pertain/relate to his likely role on this team is shortsighted and only serves to create a distorted picture of his future on this team. It's like a patient that takes a placebo drug in a randomized trial. You think you're doing something, but in reality, it really has no effect on your overall longterm outcome.


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People in this thread accuse me of cherry-picking stats but have no problem cherry-picking when they want to discuss Avdija. When the Wizards weren't at full strength and Avdija was having good games, this thread was buzzing and people attacked my posts. But when he struggles this thread is as silent as a mouse. More so, it's fascinating how I can be called a hater for saying simply that the man needs to improve his 3-point shooting, It's actually hilarious how people on this board can criticize me on this point. I've said the same thing about Rui, Troy Brown and Kelly Oubre. When people are running solely on optimism and hope, cognitively ignoring facts that don't mesh with their reality, a realistic and objective appraisal tends to sound like hate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger

"In war, a messenger would be sent from one camp to another. If the message was unfitting, the receiver might blame the messenger for such bad news and take their anger out on them."
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1922 » by Runner300 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 9:40 am

One thing is to say he needs to improve is 3pt shot, work on his left, his confidence, his post up, whatever.
Other thing is to conclude he needs to be traded because of his 3pt percentage,
or he needs to be traded because he's not aggressive,
or he needs to be traded despite he had good 5-6 games,
or he needs to be traded because you love him and you want him to shine, but elsewhere. You see the pattern?

Wizards coaching staff are, of course, not the best. Worse that collective wisdom of this board, that would draft Haliburton instead.
One advantage that they have is - they get to see him in practices, they see what he is capable of.

His trade value is way below his potential, even now after almost 3 years in the league.
No point trading him now.
If the Wizards decide to move on to the next toy, they can bench him this season, and showcase him at the beginning of the next one.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1923 » by Wizraeli » Mon Mar 6, 2023 1:19 pm

prime1time wrote: it's fascinating how I can be called a hater for saying simply that the man needs to improve his 3-point shooting, It's actually hilarious how people on this board can criticize me on this point.


Are these your words?

prime1time wrote:Either you are a dominant offensive force that has the ball in their hands. Or you develop a 3-point shot. There is no in-between
.
.
He's shooting 28.6% from 3. Why would he be in the game from an offensive perspective?
.
.
Without significant improvement from Avdija, and even with significant improvement, I expect that we will draft another forward in the first round and continue the conga line of forwards


You didn't simply said he needs to improve his 3-point shot, everyone else including me had said he needs to improve his 3-pt shot, but not you, you argued that without having a good 3-point shot Avdija will not be able to contribute this team in any way and there's no reason for him to be on the court, especially in the final minutes, only after getting a backlash from other people you started to soften your words, which is ok, but don't try to play the innocent martyr now.


prime1time wrote:When the Wizards weren't at full strength and Avdija was having good games, this thread was buzzing and people attacked my posts. But when he struggles this thread is as silent as a mouse.


The thread became silent during the all-star break, because there was nothing new to add regarding Avdija, so it got pushed to the 2nd page of the forum, which naturally reduced the chance of someone posting in it, now after Deni had a good game, you're the one who bumped the thread up from the 2nd page, no one else, and by doing that you disproved your own claim...


prime1time wrote: "In war, a messenger would be sent from one camp to another. If the message was unfitting, the receiver might blame the messenger for such bad news and take their anger out on them."


If the messenger changes the message to fit their own opinion, or if the messenger delivers the message with an evil satisfied grin on his face, the messenger shouldn't be surprised if he'll get shot.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1924 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Mon Mar 6, 2023 2:43 pm

prime1time wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
prime1time wrote:People on this board just like to criticize me for the sake of criticizing me. 61 games into the season Avdija is shooting 28.6%. When you take out the two games in February where he went 4-9 and 3-5, he's actually shooting 26.7% from 3.


If you take out his 2 worst game in December where he was 1-5 and 1-8, he's actually shooting 29%. See what I did there.

How about this, because clearly, I'm so biased, what do you think Avdija's future on the Wizards is?


I think he can be a starter on a winning team. I'll admittedly say I feel handicapped by the fact that this franchises chooses not only to want to advertise Beal-Porzingis-Kuzma as its version of the Big 3, but also treat them like they are like the Lebron-Wade-Bosh trio. Last night's game is a perfect example of this Beal and Porzingis combining for 61 shots, each shooting it about 30 times, with the next nearest guy (Deni) getting only 10. Doesn't matter the quality of shots, they have been anointed as the Big 3, and they are beyond reproach (and then the fans will also ask who else is going to the shots because they've been brainwashed). So I get what you're saying is that it will be harder for Deni to break through with that dynamic, but I don't believe throwing the baby out with the bathwater because of that dynamic.

To go further, I envision Deni as a very good (maybe eventually elite) swiss army knife type player, someone who can is a great defender, a secondary ball handler (maybe the primary given situation), someone who does the little things and is constantly fighting out there, and gets you something along the lines of 14-16 points, 8-9 rebounds, 4-6 assists, 1+ steals, and close to a block per game and around 2 or so turnovers a game on maybe 49%/35%/80% splits. I don't think that is out of the question or unrealistic, given his age and his willingness to work. I don't need him to be a 20+ point scorer to feel validated as a good player.

I totally agree with your point that he needs to get better at shooting 3s, nobody on this board in their right mind would contest that. I think the difference between you and others is that they are willing to give him more slack and are willing to wait for that aspect of his game to come around because he does some other stuff really well, and he plays a team-oriented, energetic, and hustle style of basketball that is endearing because it typically leads to good things. I want Deni to improve his three, believe me, I get ticked when he doesn't knock down some threes he should make, but I also think he's close to maybe getting there (maybe I'm wrong). I don't think his shot is broken, I think he just needs a more confidence and additional in-game reps (offseason work will be critical too).

I also understand your point that in NBA basketball offenses are sophisticated enough to switch off good defenders from their best offense players, but you appear to act like it is in somehow that it is a notch against him because of that fact, as if being a good defender is a minimal attribute. More good defenders on a team is a good thing right? We also appear to disagree on the quality of his defense, so full stop I think you are wrong about him there. I'm not saying that he's all-time great good which is where you seem to want to draw the lines, but I've seen enough to say he is extremely impactful on that end on most nights, and he has shown flashes of being elite. It's not his fault some of his teammates don't want to play hard on defense every night.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1925 » by Wizraeli » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:09 pm

I'll add to what CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote that if it's a problem that the other team is switching on your good defender then the solution should be to put more good defenders on the court next to him so the switching won't be that effective, the solution shouldn't be to bench your good defender...
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1926 » by Kanyewest » Mon Mar 6, 2023 6:41 pm

Prior to the Rui trade, Deni was shooting 27.7 % from 3- since the trade he's been shooting 31% So he has been improving in the short term even though he shot a worse percentage last season. Opposing teams will continue to give him the open 3 - he needs to get better at knocking them down and if he does it will open up the rest of his game like it did against the Bucks.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1927 » by dckingsfan » Thu Mar 9, 2023 8:58 pm

I felt like Deni cost us that game last night. I guess you have to take the bad with the good.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1928 » by NatP4 » Thu Mar 9, 2023 9:14 pm

dckingsfan wrote:I felt like Deni cost us that game last night. I guess you have to take the bad with the good.


Oh come on Kings. Deni didn’t shoot it well, but he plays solid defense while he’s out there. Guys like Kispert and Beal are total liabilities on that end for every second they are out there. Who is to blame for Porzingis only taking 22 shots despite putting up 43 points??? That’s a total joke.

Both teams shot over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. There was no defense at all.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1929 » by dckingsfan » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:35 am

NatP4 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I felt like Deni cost us that game last night. I guess you have to take the bad with the good.

Oh come on Kings. Deni didn’t shoot it well, but he plays solid defense while he’s out there. Guys like Kispert and Beal are total liabilities on that end for every second they are out there. Who is to blame for Porzingis only taking 22 shots despite putting up 43 points??? That’s a total joke.

Both teams shot over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. There was no defense at all.

Usually, yes. But this game he was pretty bad offensively and not impactful defensively, IMO. And you know I like Deni but...
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1930 » by trast66 » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:20 am

Will his next contract be written in French or Italian?
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1931 » by Wizraeli » Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:08 am

trast66 wrote:Will his next contract be written in French or Italian?


I know it's a troll comment, but I don't think you know the Euroleague very well if you think he'll sign with a French or Italian team...or you think he'll play in a mediocre to low level team in Europe as well?

Whatever language it is, hopefully his next contract will be with a team that have a coach that actually do something other than high fiving his star players.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1932 » by Runner300 » Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:20 am

Oh yea. Serbian.
He also speaks the language.
Next time coach Obradovich turns purple, Deni will understand subtle meaning of every word he yells...
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1933 » by FAH1223 » Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:40 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1934 » by Frichuela » Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:47 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is embarrassing…very disappointing end of the season for Deni..
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1935 » by Dat2U » Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:44 pm

Deni's year has been a full on regression. He's probably the biggest disappointment on the roster this season. He still has not established himself as a reliable rotation player. I don't know how many coaches would give 25-30 minutes to a bad shooter and weak ballhandler who needs the ball to be effective and isn't playing elite D. I assume you give him another opportunity next year because he's signed and there's no one to really replace him unless were buying the Xavier Cooks signing.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1936 » by nate33 » Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:22 pm

Dat2U wrote:Deni's year has been a full on regression. He's probably the biggest disappointment on the roster this season. He still has not established himself as a reliable rotation player. I don't know how many coaches would give 25-30 minutes to a bad shooter and weak ballhandler who needs the ball to be effective and isn't playing elite D. I assume you give him another opportunity next year because he's signed and there's no one to really replace him unless were buying the Xavier Cooks signing.

Sadly, there isn't much to disagree with here. There were a few moments this season when it looked like Deni would turn the corner and become more reliable as a shooter and ball handler, but they were just aberrations. Ultimately, he looks like the same old Deni as last year. Overall, there really hasn't been much improvement. And defensively, I feel like he is a little bit worse. He has worked so hard at avoiding fouls that he is no longer bumping guys off their spots and getting stops. The only area that has improved notably is his rebounding.

I'm not giving up hope completely, some guys don't make The Leap until Year 4, but usually, you see it by Year 3.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1937 » by Dolevi » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:18 am

Yeah but keep counting on Kuz Beal and KP that will take you to be competitive. This shot selection of them throwing bricks away off the dribble, this isn't basketball. I'm not saying Deni isn't bad, he is, but your team overall isn't that good. The offense is just so inefficient with the looks we get, the shot selection and Iso plays off the post and off the dribble. Hard to watch this team play. Deni can be very good 'glue' guy on a winning team beacuase of his athleticism and speed with the ball in transition, passing skills and IQ, defense. but unfortunately, all these just disappear and go away if you play for a losing team that doesn't know how to guard / play basketball. He just got swallowed in the weakness of this team.

Still doesn't matter of the situation for a moment - no matter what happens - if you 6,9 tall and you cannot dunk it on a small man - you'll have trouble to stay in the league, period.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1938 » by Dark Faze » Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:21 pm

Doesn't on-off still support him being a positive contributor? As long as that's the case, a cheap extension should remain in the cards. I'd give him something like 3 years, 24 mil with a 3rd year team option with the way things are currently trending.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1939 » by Wizraeli » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:46 pm

I just want to remind people that in the last game that triggered all of these depression comments he had 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, only 1 turnover and the highest +/- on the team (except Gill that only played 11 minutes), and seeing that kind of stats isn't something unusual for him, with all of his shortcomings on offense he's still a positive influence on the court.

Deni is going to have a long NBA career, the only question is if he'll do it as an Anthony Gill type of player or as a decent starter and even a star, after 3 years it looks like that for him to fulfill his full potential at the Wizards he either needs to overcome his mental confidence issues or the team needs to plays a much more organized, share the ball type of play instead of the iso brick chucking they are currently doing, unfortunately there aren't signs either of these things are going to happen any time soon.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1940 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:18 pm

Wizraeli wrote:I just want to remind people that in the last game that triggered all of these depression comments he had 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, only 1 turnover and the highest +/- on the team (except Gill that only played 11 minutes), and seeing that kind of stats isn't something unusual for him, with all of his shortcomings on offense he's still a positive influence on the court.

Deni is going to have a long NBA career, the only question is if he'll do it as an Anthony Gill type of player or as a decent starter and even a star, after 3 years it looks like that for him to fulfill his full potential at the Wizards he either needs to overcome his mental confidence issues or the team needs to plays a much more organized, share the ball type of play instead of the iso brick chucking they are currently doing, unfortunately there aren't signs either of these things are going to happen any time soon.

I wouldn't bet on Deni having along NBA career. Why? Because there will be savy, defensive-minded players in every draft who can "Deni", AND be more than able to carry their share on offensive which Deni cannot do.

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