Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

[Frichuela]

Oh dear, our best defender at point of attack is down. Let’s hope he recovers ahead of the trade deadline!

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[barelyawake]

Anyone been watching Arenas’ podcast where he’s been interviewing NBA player after NBA player about how the NBA is rigged? Exactly the points I’ve been making here forever — the refs make it so you have to beat them and the other team to win. You can win. If you win so definitively that the refs can’t swing it (or it’ll look rigged).

https://youtube.com/shorts/ma248kJFf9Q?si=0r3UKl73lsg_lcRa

And as such, the development of third string point guards matter not. The ONLY thing that matters is obtaining a top ten player. Really, considering our reputation, we need a generational talent to win anything.

(I’ll take responses off air)

PS Nate I haven’t forgotten in owe you a response. Considering the holidays, probably isn’t coming soon. But, I can sum it up in a short statement: Considering we have never had a generational talent, then every player we have ever had should have been traded at the apex of their value (and currently). Thus they all, for the most part, were given too much time to “develop” — most of all Kwame Brown. Jordan wanted to trade him right away, and that would have been the best idea. But, l digress.

[nate33]

Oh dear, our best defender at point of attack is down. Let’s hope he recovers ahead of the trade deadline!

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This sucks. He was playing so well.

[penbeast0]

As a possible silver lining, I now hope to see Jared Butler play as a Wizard. Don't know if he's anything more than a summer league/G league player but maybe we can give him enough minutes now to find out.

[nate33]

As a possible silver lining, I now hope to see Jared Butler play as a Wizard. Don't know if he's anything more than a summer league/G league player but maybe we can give him enough minutes now to find out.

I'm assuming they will go to Rollins first. But Rollins deserve a shot too, I suppose.

[Hibachi_0]

As bad as we are, could we try doing something like the Spurs with Sochan using Deni at the 1 instead? Deni-Poole/Kispert-Bilal-Kuz-Gafford. If you want a traditional PG, I would also like to see Tyus-Bilal-Deni-Kuz-Gafford. In the end, it is just less time for Tyus-Poole together and more time for Bilal-Deni-Kuzma.

[9 and 20]

How many more guards need to get injured for Johnny Davis to get some run. If the answer is every single one, then just cut him already. Otherwise, see what he has and if he's more than a scrub. Instead we talking about playing a 6-10 guy at guard, the two-way guy, and the 2nd round pick from another team.

[payitforward]

As a possible silver lining, I now hope to see Jared Butler play as a Wizard. Don't know if he's anything more than a summer league/G league player but maybe we can give him enough minutes now to find out.

I'm assuming they will go to Rollins first. But Rollins deserves a shot too, I suppose.

Deserves a shot?

Ryan Rollins has only played 46 minutes, so obviously no conclusions should be drawn (or even considered), but he has been absolutely unreal so far! Amazing.

In those 46 minutes, he's scored 30 points on 17 shots & 16 (!!) FTAs. To reduce it to a familiar metric, that's 26 points per 40 minutes -- at a .624 TS%. .813 from the line (worth noting that he didn't miss a single FTA as a rookie!).

To put it another way -- Rollins has played 101 possessions so far. He's got 10 assists, 10 rebounds, 8 steals, & 2 blocked shots.

Rollins is leading the league in steals per 100 possessions.
His FT% is in the top 10% of the league.
His 3 pt% is .500.
He's also turning the ball over a lot!

On balance, however, over this very small number of minutes, Ryan Rollins has been absolutely terrific! He's playing like he's one of the 10 best PGs in the league. Again... that is over 46 minutes!

All the same, I'd say he definitely "deserves a shot." Just as much as Jared Butler -- they both do!

Btw, Ryan Rollins is fully two years younger than Jared Butler. He turned 21 about 3 months ago.

[payitforward]

How many more guards need to get injured for Johnny Davis to get some run. If the answer is every single one, then just cut him already. Otherwise, see what he has and if he's more than a scrub. Instead we talking about playing a 6-10 guy at guard, the two-way guy, and the 2nd round pick from another team.

I'd like to see Johnny get 20 minutes a game. I agree -- let's see what he does over a stretch of games in which he gets regular minutes.

But, whether a player is a "two-way guy" or a "2d-round pick" or "from another team" as opposed to the #10 pick...? All that stuff means nothing at all. At least it shouldn't.

Truth is, we need to play all 3 of those guys. We need to play them significant minutes.

It's far more important to see what those guys have (to use your phrase) than it is to win games this season.
It's far more important to keep laying a foundation for the future than it is to be slightly better, or even significantly better, this season.

[Wizardspride]

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[pancakes3]

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I think this only works if Deni is the one initiating the offense like Draymond, AND if Kuz is committed to setting screens. also, i don't know if Poole is good enough on catch-and-shoots for this to be worth it.

if Poole is the primary ball handler, the offense is much more stagnant, and Deni really doesn't have a role to play as he's not a great pnr guy nor is he a great shooter. better off playing Kispert and having Deni get minutes with the second unit.

[nate33]

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I think this only works if Deni is the one initiating the offense like Draymond, AND if Kuz is committed to setting screens. also, i don't know if Poole is good enough on catch-and-shoots for this to be worth it.

if Poole is the primary ball handler, the offense is much more stagnant, and Deni really doesn't have a role to play as he's not a great pnr guy nor is he a great shooter. better off playing Kispert and having Deni get minutes with the second unit.

Yeah, I think I'd prefer to see:
PG Tyus
SG Coulibaly
SF Avdija
PF Kuzma
C Gafford

At least we know those guys will try on D. Also, Tyus is a good pick-and-roll partner with Gafford. The lineup will hopefully continue to nurture Avdija as a more aggressive offense creator since he is essentially the 2nd/3rd option alongside Tyus. They're ultimately going to have problems scoring, but I'd rather see good D, good effort, even if the offense is bad. Avdija will go to the bench early in order to replace Kuzma at PF in the 2nd unit. He can be replaced by either Poole or Kispert, which will boost the offense (at the expense of the defense, of course).

[payitforward]

This makes a lot of sense, nate.
I wish I could imagine them moving Poole to the 2d unit, but... alas I can't....

[doclinkin]

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I think this only works if Deni is the one initiating the offense like Draymond, AND if Kuz is committed to setting screens. also, i don't know if Poole is good enough on catch-and-shoots for this to be worth it.

if Poole is the primary ball handler, the offense is much more stagnant, and Deni really doesn't have a role to play as he's not a great pnr guy nor is he a great shooter. better off playing Kispert and having Deni get minutes with the second unit.

Yeah, I think I'd prefer to see:
PG Tyus
SG Coulibaly
SF Avdija
PF Kuzma
C Gafford

At least we know those guys will try on D. Also, Tyus is a good pick-and-roll partner with Gafford. The lineup will hopefully continue to nurture Avdija as a more aggressive offense creator since he is essentially the 2nd/3rd option alongside Tyus. They're ultimately going to have problems scoring, but I'd rather see good D, good effort, even if the offense is bad. Avdija will go to the bench early in order to replace Kuzma at PF in the 2nd unit. He can be replaced by either Poole or Kispert, which will boost the offense (at the expense of the defense, of course).

This is what I've been advocating. Poole is jacking shots early in the clock and blowing his assignment on D, disrupting the team at both ends. The team can't get into any sort of flow with him on the floor. Jones with continuity would show a different sort of chemistry. He makes the right plays on defense but lacks the size, putting him next to length would mean teams can't exploit his size deficit as readily. With B Cool and Deni both showing an ability to hit open 3's it should not be as crowded in the middle, and with Kispert not showing as high a proficiency at the outside shot as previously, I'm fine with letting the rook get the starting nod at that spot. Bilal, Deni and Kuzma are all signed for the next few years, let them build chemistry and we will have a good foundation to add talent over the next few drafts. We'd have the foundation of a pretty solid defense, even if we lack firepower to force the action. Letting Poole run rampant does not demonstrate teamwork or smart play. You want the young players coming in who can learn from example of the guys around them, in a good way. Deni, Kuz, Bilal, Jones, all seem to play that way.

If Poole gets hot against 2nd line defenders maybe he rediscovers his confidence and can make a case for extended play subbing in with the starters. Until then I don't see the benefit of what he has been bringing. Not even in a tank year. I still have hopes for his talent, but he's forcing it right now and it ain't working.

[tontoz]

They brought in Jones and Poole to be the vets along with Kuzma. I can't see any of them getting benched for a rookie this early in the season.

[penbeast0]

How many more guards need to get injured for Johnny Davis to get some run. If the answer is every single one, then just cut him already. Otherwise, see what he has and if he's more than a scrub. Instead we talking about playing a 6-10 guy at guard, the two-way guy, and the 2nd round pick from another team.

I'd consider sending Davis to the G league and see if he can't regain his swagger. Jared Butler was impressive in both G-league and Summer league, Rollins has shown out in limited minutes, Davis has not. He needs to be able to be good somewhere, either at practice or going down, to earn minutes. Here are their G league stats from last year (Davis, Butler, Rollins).

2022-23 14G 25.2mpg 11.8pts 40.4fg% 35.8 3pt% 78.6ft% 4.1reb 2.2ast 1.9to 1.1st 0.4bl

2022-23 18G 30.0mpg 19.3pts 48.1fg% 45.8 3pt % 77.1ft% 3.7reb 5.5ast 2.9to 1.1st 0.3bl

2022-23 10G 28.4mpg 20.3pts 48.1fg% 36.7 3 pt% 71.4ft% 4.3reb 4.5ast 2.8to 0.9st 0.2bl

[pancakes3]

I think this only works if Deni is the one initiating the offense like Draymond, AND if Kuz is committed to setting screens. also, i don't know if Poole is good enough on catch-and-shoots for this to be worth it.

if Poole is the primary ball handler, the offense is much more stagnant, and Deni really doesn't have a role to play as he's not a great pnr guy nor is he a great shooter. better off playing Kispert and having Deni get minutes with the second unit.

Yeah, I think I'd prefer to see:
PG Tyus
SG Coulibaly
SF Avdija
PF Kuzma
C Gafford

At least we know those guys will try on D. Also, Tyus is a good pick-and-roll partner with Gafford. The lineup will hopefully continue to nurture Avdija as a more aggressive offense creator since he is essentially the 2nd/3rd option alongside Tyus. They're ultimately going to have problems scoring, but I'd rather see good D, good effort, even if the offense is bad. Avdija will go to the bench early in order to replace Kuzma at PF in the 2nd unit. He can be replaced by either Poole or Kispert, which will boost the offense (at the expense of the defense, of course).

This is what I've been advocating. Poole is jacking shots early in the clock and blowing his assignment on D, disrupting the team at both ends. The team can't get into any sort of flow with him on the floor. Jones with continuity would show a different sort of chemistry. He makes the right plays on defense but lacks the size, putting him next to length would mean teams can't exploit his size deficit as readily. With B Cool and Deni both showing an ability to hit open 3's it should not be as crowded in the middle, and with Kispert not showing as high a proficiency at the outside shot as previously, I'm fine with letting the rook get the starting nod at that spot. Bilal, Deni and Kuzma are all signed for the next few years, let them build chemistry and we will have a good foundation to add talent over the next few drafts. We'd have the foundation of a pretty solid defense, even if we lack firepower to force the action. Letting Poole run rampant does not demonstrate teamwork or smart play. You want the young players coming in who can learn from example of the guys around them, in a good way. Deni, Kuz, Bilal, Jones, all seem to play that way.

If Poole gets hot against 2nd line defenders maybe he rediscovers his confidence and can make a case for extended play subbing in with the starters. Until then I don't see the benefit of what he has been bringing. Not even in a tank year. I still have hopes for his talent, but he's forcing it right now and it ain't working.

agree w yall.

it's tough titties for Poole. he's not good enough to be a lead guard. he might have an ego but the end product is the end product. how many more games does he want to keep going out and embarrassing himself? he can't draw fouls and he can't shoot. he's not Steph, Kyrie, or Harden. He's not Trae,SGA, or Ant. At least Kuz can put up good numbers on a bad team.

If Poole wants to be the focal point of the offense, he needs to either be a 38+% volume 3P shooter or he needs to draw 7+ FTA. otherwise, the offense is better off with Tre at point.

it's also pretty obvious that Poole's not good enough to get his points on his own, so he needs the rest of the lineup to play very specific roles just so he can get his. all the great players keep talking about "being able to get a bucket" and it's never been more apparent to me than watching Poole to know what they mean. they also talk about economy of motion. I think Gil's the one who said this about Poole not being an elite scorer - that he needs to do a lot of flash, a lot of massaging of the ball just to get his shot off, whereas great scorers can just walk down, take 3 or less dribbles, get open, and shoot, and it's back on defense. By the time Poole is done going into his bag and gets his shot off, Gil, KD, and other truly elite scorers already shot, went back on defense, and is back to take their 2nd shot. With less energy expended. It's EASY for them. It's WORK for Poole. and Poole isn't like AI/Westbrook where they have the energy and intensity to go deep into their bag and still score consistently - when Poole does go into his bag, the end product is STILL only 16ppg on 41/30 percentages. tl;dr, bro just isn't good enough.

[penbeast0]

Why are the rotations so tight? Why only play 9 men when you are trying to develop guys like Davis, Rollins, Butler, PBJ, etc? I would think for a developmental team, they should be playing the bottom guys more.

[nate33]

Why are the rotations so tight? Why only play 9 men when you are trying to develop guys like Davis, Rollins, Butler, PBJ, etc? I would think for a developmental team, they should be playing the bottom guys more.

Wes went with a 10-man rotation until Wright got hurt.

Once Wright went down, he tightened to 9 mostly by playing Avdija, Kispert and Coulibaly a little more. In essence, the tightening of the rotation actually gave our younger, developing guys MORE minutes. I'm actually pretty happy Wes has been utilizing Avdija as our PG for the 2nd unit. The results have been mixed, but the experience is good for Avdija

I'm not too worried yet about the lack of playing time from the end of bench guys. There are still veterans to showcase, and Wes doesn't want to signal yet that he is already giving up on the season. I figure he is going to lean on the older guys through December. By then, maybe we will see some trades.

[NatP4]

I’m all for showcasing the veterans to try and flip them for 2nd round picks, but it’s not that hard to give Johnny Davis some consistent playing time. The 9 man rotation (which is basically 8 with Muscala playing 7 minutes), is totally unnecessary and counterproductive.