Political Roundtable Part XXIX

[TGW]

It is nice to have a President who is competent.

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This isn't competence. This is the bare minimum. A competent president would put apartheid-state israel in their place.

[dobrojim]

Wish her luck but she’s going to lose. I still don’t get why the Democrats don’t put up candidates that can appeal to the demographics needed to win certain states. Every state wide candidate in Florida should be a Hispanic person because that’s the demographic that the Democrats need to pull to move the needle. Identify politics works, just ask Republicans who ran unqualified celebrity candidates that matched the demographics of their districts and won.

There's not a lot to choose from. The most prominent Hispanics in politics seem to be Cuban American republicans. They just call democrats "socialists" and that works for them. The democrats have to groom some Cubans. An Hispanic non-Cuban is not appealing to Cubans. Many think they're better than recent poor immigrants.

Then get a celebrity candidate then. Cubans make a huge portion of the Florida vote but they aren’t the only Hispanic demographic that can sway an election in Florida. Democrats need to stop thinking of Florida as a purple state. It’s a Red state with a bunch of old white retirees and Cubans that will never vote for a black person. Hell lily white Biden couldn’t even make it close.
Trust me Florida is full of idiots that love a politician like Desantis. They embrace the stupidity recklessness. Democrats aren’t going to win Florida by being reasonable and explaining how their policies have helped the state. You need to create excitement and carve out a Demographic. I’d say the same thing for Texas and Arizona too. If you aren’t running a Hispanic candidate, you’re playing to not lose. I don’t know why Democrats continue to fail again and again in Red states and not try something new. Republicans have absolutely figured this out, policy doesn’t matter it’s about connecting to voters to turn them out.

Alan Grayson?

[dobrojim]

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Performative? IDK. It'd be nice if it wasn't just postering.
He (and Sinema) really needs to step up and get HR1 passed.
If they don't, I don't believe it's alarmist to suggest we're on
our way to an authoritarian ie non democratic state.

Meanwhile out in AZ

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/05/21/arizona-election-audit-trump-maricopa/

several republicans, god bless em, have spoken out

Jack Sellers, the Republican chairman of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, called an emergency meeting Monday to deal with the situation, which he described as “a grift disguised as an audit.”

“In my 28 years of doing elections I have never seen a private takeover of any kind of public process related to an election,” says Kim Wyman, Washington state’s Republican secretary of state. “It’s the wild, wild West.”

“It’s amateur hour,” says Jeff Flake, the Republican former U.S. senator from Arizona. “It’s horrible for democracy.”

Between the obscure tedium inside the coliseum and the carnival lunacy outside, it’s possible to miss what’s really going on in Maricopa: not an insurrection, but a kind of nonviolent adminsurrection — a haphazard, unprecedented corruption of both the democratic process and public trust, according to a bipartisan array of officials in Arizona and around the country who are worried it will spread to other states.

“What really worries me is that so many groups are getting the kind of access to the election system that you’d need to make fraud happen in the future,” says J. Alex Halderman, a professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan, adding: “Up until 2020 we were worried about very well-resourced foreign actors like Russia,” but “what’s happening now is creating a very serious potential for a serious domestic threat in 2022 and 2024, the likes of which we’ve never had before. There’s never been this confluence of political actors, technical actors and access.”

When you have completely non-reasoning people being told exactly what they wish to hear,
any critical thinking or skepticism is extremely unlikely.

“Put your faith in God, like we have with this audit,” said a woman named Patty, wearing a “Latinas for Trump” shirt. “The election was stolen, and you don’t take from God. I will die fighting. We all need to be there. It is a war.”

While I am not saying there isn't a sincere belief in this non-sense, one has to question
the grift that is at the heart of it. It's going to cost Maricopa Co far more than the $150,000
contract to CyberNinjas given that they now have to replace their voting machines since they've
been tampered with by partisan actors.

[Wizardspride]

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[Ruzious]

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[verbal8]

It looks like things just got real with the Trump criminal investigations.

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[Pointgod]

There's not a lot to choose from. The most prominent Hispanics in politics seem to be Cuban American republicans. They just call democrats "socialists" and that works for them. The democrats have to groom some Cubans. An Hispanic non-Cuban is not appealing to Cubans. Many think they're better than recent poor immigrants.

Then get a celebrity candidate then. Cubans make a huge portion of the Florida vote but they aren’t the only Hispanic demographic that can sway an election in Florida. Democrats need to stop thinking of Florida as a purple state. It’s a Red state with a bunch of old white retirees and Cubans that will never vote for a black person. Hell lily white Biden couldn’t even make it close.
Trust me Florida is full of idiots that love a politician like Desantis. They embrace the stupidity recklessness. Democrats aren’t going to win Florida by being reasonable and explaining how their policies have helped the state. You need to create excitement and carve out a Demographic. I’d say the same thing for Texas and Arizona too. If you aren’t running a Hispanic candidate, you’re playing to not lose. I don’t know why Democrats continue to fail again and again in Red states and not try something new. Republicans have absolutely figured this out, policy doesn’t matter it’s about connecting to voters to turn them out.

Alan Grayson?

Not for Florida. Might as well run Gloria Estefan and I’m not being facetious when I say that. Statewide candidates should appeal to the demographics needed to win the state. This isn’t rocket science, you just have to think of Florida as a red state instead of it being a purple state.

Don’t get me wrong Val Demmings and Alan Grayson are awesome candidates, especially Demmings who would be a great candidate in a blue or purplish state. I don’t know about your but I’m tired of Democrats getting their teeth kicked in in Red States because they run the same type of candidate. Former vet, small business owner, former prosecutor or member of Congress blah blah blah. It’s a losing recipe.

Republicans have figured out playing identity politics to a t. Cuban Marco Rubio in Florida. Hispanic Ted Cruz in Texas. Hell they ran that complete **** moron Tuberville in Alabama. Democrats want to win Alabama? Run Nick Sabin. Want to win Kentucky? Run John Calipari. There are two types of candidates that we know have wide appeal, celebrities and political “outsiders”.

[Pointgod]

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Performative? IDK. It'd be nice if it wasn't just postering.
He (and Sinema) really needs to step up and get HR1 passed.
If they don't, I don't believe it's alarmist to suggest we're on
our way to an authoritarian ie non democratic state.

Meanwhile out in AZ

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/05/21/arizona-election-audit-trump-maricopa/

several republicans, god bless em, have spoken out

Jack Sellers, the Republican chairman of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, called an emergency meeting Monday to deal with the situation, which he described as “a grift disguised as an audit.”

“In my 28 years of doing elections I have never seen a private takeover of any kind of public process related to an election,” says Kim Wyman, Washington state’s Republican secretary of state. “It’s the wild, wild West.”

“It’s amateur hour,” says Jeff Flake, the Republican former U.S. senator from Arizona. “It’s horrible for democracy.”

Between the obscure tedium inside the coliseum and the carnival lunacy outside, it’s possible to miss what’s really going on in Maricopa: not an insurrection, but a kind of nonviolent adminsurrection — a haphazard, unprecedented corruption of both the democratic process and public trust, according to a bipartisan array of officials in Arizona and around the country who are worried it will spread to other states.

“What really worries me is that so many groups are getting the kind of access to the election system that you’d need to make fraud happen in the future,” says J. Alex Halderman, a professor of computer science and engineering at the University of Michigan, adding: “Up until 2020 we were worried about very well-resourced foreign actors like Russia,” but “what’s happening now is creating a very serious potential for a serious domestic threat in 2022 and 2024, the likes of which we’ve never had before. There’s never been this confluence of political actors, technical actors and access.”

When you have completely non-reasoning people being told exactly what they wish to hear,
any critical thinking or skepticism is extremely unlikely.

“Put your faith in God, like we have with this audit,” said a woman named Patty, wearing a “Latinas for Trump” shirt. “The election was stolen, and you don’t take from God. I will die fighting. We all need to be there. It is a war.”

While I am not saying there isn't a sincere belief in this non-sense, one has to question
the grift that is at the heart of it. It's going to cost Maricopa Co far more than the $150,000
contract to CyberNinjas given that they now have to replace their voting machines since they've
been tampered with by partisan actors.

**** US Democracy is going to end all because dick head Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema want to continue to sit with Republicans in the Senate lunch room. These people are delusional if they sincerely believe that they’ll ever get re-elected if Republicans have their way.

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/06/confederate-lost-cause-myth/618711/



The truth can’t set anyone free unless they are
sincerely committed to knowing the truth however
uncomfortable that might be.

[Zonkerbl]

I had a whole twitter rant lined up about how MTG is white trash and that matters because the majority of poor people are now white.

Well, turns out that's *always* been true. I guess yeah. Duh, I should've intuited that but no, I was surprised. So what MTG is doing is actually giving full political voice to white trash for the first time.

I think what's happened is that politically active white trash (i.e. whites without college degrees) used to be union members and the non active members voted for whichever white guy they were most sexually attracted to (or whatever, who knows). Now that technology and globalization (and Reagan) have successfully killed off almost all unions, there's an opportunity to swoop in there and grab that chunk of the electorate. Dems just decided they were all racist, misogynist, xenophobic jerks who they didn't want to support. Fox said hey free voters. Thanks Dems!

Bernie may have been the Dems last gasp attempt at winning those voters back but the last election shows that the Democratic party has transformed from the "working class, we don't care what a jerk you are" party to the "we accept anyone who is not racist, misogynist, xenophobic, anti-science" party, which is not as successful a strategy as you might imagine.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan/households_and_businesses/20120720_cspan_hh_bus_slides_3.pdf

[dobrojim]

I guess perception is truth and these blue collar Whites perceive
that pubs talking grievance are in their corner no matter how
little they manage to accomplish for them.

[Ruzious]

I had a whole twitter rant lined up about how MTG is white trash and that matters because the majority of poor people are now white.

Well, turns out that's *always* been true. I guess yeah. Duh, I should've intuited that but no, I was surprised. So what MTG is doing is actually giving full political voice to white trash for the first time.

I think what's happened is that politically active white trash (i.e. whites without college degrees) used to be union members and the non active members voted for whichever white guy they were most sexually attracted to (or whatever, who knows). Now that technology and globalization (and Reagan) have successfully killed off almost all unions, there's an opportunity to swoop in there and grab that chunk of the electorate. Dems just decided they were all racist, misogynist, xenophobic jerks who they didn't want to support. Fox said hey free voters. Thanks Dems!

Bernie may have been the Dems last gasp attempt at winning those voters back but the last election shows that the Democratic party has transformed from the "working class, we don't care what a jerk you are" party to the "we accept anyone who is not racist, misogynist, xenophobic, anti-science" party, which is not as successful a strategy as you might imagine.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan/households_and_businesses/20120720_cspan_hh_bus_slides_3.pdf

Labor unions are far from dead. Most of my clients are unions (and their pension funds), and business hasn't dropped since I went in that direction 10 years ago.

[doclinkin]

I'm here for the conversion to a XXX Politics thread. Spicy...

[Zonkerbl]

Ok do we do this by brackets or what?

Which Dem POTUS candidate are you more sexually attracted to:

Klobuchar
Buttigieg

Harris
Sanders

Biden
Yang

Marianne Williamson
Tulsi Gabbard


Which GOP POTUS candidate are you more sexually attracted to:

Matt Gaetz
MTG

Rick Santorum
Chris Christie

Josh Hawley
Tim Scott

Ted Cruz
Tom "Send in the Troops" Cotton

[dobrojim]

No, no and no.

[Zonkerbl]

what an excellent way to end portion XXIX of this thread

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

I had a whole twitter rant lined up about how MTG is white trash and that matters because the majority of poor people are now white.

Well, turns out that's *always* been true. I guess yeah. Duh, I should've intuited that but no, I was surprised. So what MTG is doing is actually giving full political voice to white trash for the first time.

I think what's happened is that politically active white trash (i.e. whites without college degrees) used to be union members and the non active members voted for whichever white guy they were most sexually attracted to (or whatever, who knows). Now that technology and globalization (and Reagan) have successfully killed off almost all unions, there's an opportunity to swoop in there and grab that chunk of the electorate. Dems just decided they were all racist, misogynist, xenophobic jerks who they didn't want to support. Fox said hey free voters. Thanks Dems!

Bernie may have been the Dems last gasp attempt at winning those voters back but the last election shows that the Democratic party has transformed from the "working class, we don't care what a jerk you are" party to the "we accept anyone who is not racist, misogynist, xenophobic, anti-science" party, which is not as successful a strategy as you might imagine.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan/households_and_businesses/20120720_cspan_hh_bus_slides_3.pdf

We need to give up the idea that these voters would vote for Dems if only they were “nicer to them”. Democrats are the party of the working class, it’s just that the idea of working class has been perverted to the image of a white male in a factory job. Look the numbers, the majority of Trump supporters are earned above the medium income and the loss of power of white people in the country. It’s simple as that.

I’m convinced that the only candidate that could beat Trump was a non controversial white guy. Not necessarily Biden, but Americans are too sexist (a female candidate would lose), too racist (nope to a minority candidate) and too stupid (Bernie would have played into the socialist attacks and defund the police) to vote for anything else. That does not look good for the country moving forward

[Wizardspride]

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