Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[Wizardspride]

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[FAH1223]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

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Lmao Biden baited them and got what he wanted. Republicans in congress are idiots.

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[Pointgod]

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The question is are the farther left parts of the Democratic coalition going to come out and support Democrats and give Biden credit? Or will this be forgotten by the end of the weak and get back to complaining that Democrats and Republicans are the same?

[Zonkerbl]

The problem with breaking unwritten norms is it only really works once. This time Biden was expecting it and gamed for it and boy did it pay off. All over the news now. Now if Republicans come back and come after SS and Medicare it'll be all over the news again. Which of course makes me super mad because SS and medicare are still broken and they need to be fixed. It's a bittersweeet victory. Right now protecting democracy from the right wing extremists who have taken over the Republican party has to take precedence.

Looks like we all have to resign ourselves to getting 70% of what we put in to SS.

Republicans used to be smart. My long standing complaint about the Dems is they were the good guys but incompetent. Looks like the Republicans have decided to lower themselves to the Dems level.

[popper]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

[Zonkerbl]

How is being uncompromising and taking decisive action undemocratic? Was this written by Putin?

When a country faces a crisis that threatens the very existence of democracy, is it appropriate to take decisive action to prevent it? Was Winston Churchill anti democratic when he organized uncompromising resistance to Hitler?

I think this "study" suffers from a poor understanding of the paradox of intolerance. A tolerant society shouldn't tolerate intolerance. Should we use the terrifying force of the government's monopoly on violence to enforce it? No, but that's not the only way to go about it.

That's what I'd really like to see. Instead of asking wishy washy questions like "is it a good thing to crack down on right wing terrorists" and then go "GOTCHA! You hate America!" they should be asking "Should we use the terrifying force of the government's monopoly on violence to force teachers not to make white people uncomfortable about America's history of intentionally enslaving people?"

[dckingsfan]

How is being uncompromising and taking decisive action undemocratic? Was this written by Putin?

When a country faces a crisis that threatens the very existence of democracy, is it appropriate to take decisive action to prevent it? Was Winston Churchill anti democratic when he organized uncompromising resistance to Hitler?

I think this "study" suffers from a poor understanding of the paradox of intolerance. A tolerant society shouldn't tolerate intolerance. Should we use the terrifying force of the government's monopoly on violence to enforce it? No, but that's not the only way to go about it.

That's what I'd really like to see. Instead of asking wishy washy questions like "is it a good thing to crack down on right wing terrorists" and then go "GOTCHA! You hate America!" they should be asking "Should we use the terrifying force of the government's monopoly on violence to force teachers not to make white people uncomfortable about America's history of intentionally enslaving people?"

What they also don't say in the poll is that 3 in 4 people don't want anti-democratic leaders. Hardly a trend. And with Russia distracted by a war, the disinformation machine is having less effect.

[montestewart]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

Since the days of Nixon, I’ve had the view that right wingers routinely pay lip service to the Constitution and to the rule of law, assuming that laws align with their positions and views, but are much quicker than left wingers to dismiss the Constitution and the rule of law when they discover it does not uniformly align with their views.This poll appears to support that view.

[Wizardspride]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

Ok. I know I shouldn't but I'll bite:

What have you seen from the "left wing" that screams "authoritarian"?

And please don't answer "masks mandates". That was a health issue.

[popper]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

Ok. I know I shouldn't but I'll bite:

What have you seen from the "left wing" that screams "authoritarian"?

And please don't answer "masks mandates".

No. Don't bite WP. I thought it was an interesting poll. That's all.

[Wizardspride]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

Ok. I know I shouldn't but I'll bite:

What have you seen from the "left wing" that screams "authoritarian"?

And please don't answer "masks mandates".

No. Don't bite WP. I thought it was an interesting poll. That's all.

While I have your attention, I want to ask a question:

Why do support the GOP?

I understand you lean conservative but I don't think the GOP is what you think it is.

I don't know what the core values are other than tax cuts for the wealthy and demonizing black/brown people.

And you can't even say they support the constitution.

They were ready give it all away for Donald Trump of all people.

[Zonkerbl]

I didn't realize the argument was gas stoves vs. *induction* stoves.

Gas stoves are clearly superior to normal electric stoves. But yeah, I might make the switch to an induction stove. Who doesn't want a stove that is powered by SCIENCE

[popper]

Ok. I know I shouldn't but I'll bite:

What have you seen from the "left wing" that screams "authoritarian"?

And please don't answer "masks mandates".

No. Don't bite WP. I thought it was an interesting poll. That's all.

While I have your attention, I want to ask a question:

Why do support the GOP?

I understand you lean conservative but I don't think the GOP is what you think it is.

I don't know what the core values are other than tax cuts for the wealthy and demonizing black/brown people.

And you can't even say they support the constitution.

They were ready give it all away for Donald Trump of all people.

I've answered that question so many times over the last, I think, twelve years here WP. It's all in the archives.

[Zonkerbl]

I've thought for some time that we're headed for some form of authoritarian government. I just don't know if it will be left wing or right wing.

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2023/02/large-numbers-americans-want-strong-rough-anti-democratic-leader/382656/

It strikes me that, up until the civil rights movement in the 60s, this country was a horrifying totalitarian state for black people. And now, for them, it's a police state. It's not a democratic utopia. We're not there yet. We still have a lot of work to do to get there. For them, being uncompromising and decisive is how we *finally arrive at democracy.* It's not anti democratic. There's no democracy currently to be anti, for them.

That's why it's so infuriating that DeSantis thinks it's totally cool to use the terrifying power of the Government's monopoly on violence to force teachers not to talk about how horrifying the current reality is for black people. That we don't have any farther to go, that we've done all the improving of lives for black people that we think they deserve, that they are not worthy of being treated the same as us white people. Because that's what you say when you claim "The United States is not racist. There is no further improvement in that direction that needs to be made." The criminal justice system does not treat black people the same as white people. Full stop.

It's easy as a white person to look around you and go, wow, this system is so great, even poor people have the opportunity to lift themselves up by their bootstraps and become middle class. Everyone's freedom of speech is protected, everyone gets treated equally by the law. Which is true for disputes between white people. But that's the way all totalitarian states work. Of all the totalitarian states in history, there has always been a protected class for whom the system works great. Nazism was great for Nazis, which was the large majority of people in Germany at the time. Even in the Soviet Union the Communist Party members lived relatively well.

If we really want to say we are the shining beacon of democracy, the standard of FREEDOM against which all other systems should be compared, then it has to be a democracy for everybody. If it's a police state for one fifth of the population, it's not a democracy. It's a police state. That would be true even if it's *only* a police state for them, but the reality is that our innate racism is used, in the name of cracking down on "thugs" (that is, black people), to impose a police state on *everybody.* Well, all poor people. As we can see looking at Trump repeatedly getting away with criminal behavior, laws really only apply to poor people. But there are poor white people. In fact the majority of poor people are white. Yes, our police state is slightly kinder to poor white people than to black people (rich or poor). But we still suffer.

Well, I don't suffer, I think I've pulled myself up by my bootstraps enough to be in the protected white class. But I don't look around me and go, haha this is how it should be. Only well educated white people like me should be treated fairly by the system. That's how a sociopath would think. I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless. I want everyone to be treated the way I am.

[pancakes3]

I like how the general republican response to pictures of Desantis drinking w HS girls is "man, low move by Trump" and not "yikes, not a good look there, Ron."

It reflects the same attitudes that republicans had about Roy Moore - they're just red blooded americans having a good time.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

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Great job Alabama. You’ve reached Nazi Germany status