2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

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I think this guy is a blithering idiot to tell the truth. Edit --- well that's too strong. I just think he's talking through his hat.

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Too much.... You wanna trade two 1sts and one of our youngings, for a player that has two potential comps next season in Peterson and Arenas who shoot even better than him and get to the rim just as frequently..... I wouldn't do that....

No shti! In principle, 6 & 18 is too much to give for 2.

Lol, really? This is a draft with a 2 player tier top tier in Flagg and Harper,... There's no chance in hell the Spurs would trade 2 for an offer as light as 6 and 18 lol, it is flat out laughable to consider that too much....

If we want Harper, we'd have to offer them something huge, which is why we've got no chance of getting Harper. 6 and 18 is laughably light.

Try reading what I actually wrote. IN PRINCIPLE....

Now find me a trade where a team gave as much as 6 & 18 to move up 4 spots to #2. Gee... you can't find one, can you... how about that!

OTOH, are there occasions where you'd make a trade like that? Sure! For example in the Lebron draft, any trade for #1 would have been justified.

This year, however, I think there are a number of prospects who might (MIGHT) turn out to be high-level stars. Hence, this year I wouldn't do that trade.

OTOH, if it turns out that Harper is a high level star, while there are zero players available at 6 & 18 who turn out that way, then you'll be right.

[Hibachi_0]

No shti! In principle, 6 & 18 is too much to give for 2.

Lol, really? This is a draft with a 2 player tier top tier in Flagg and Harper,... There's no chance in hell the Spurs would trade 2 for an offer as light as 6 and 18 lol, it is flat out laughable to consider that too much....

If we want Harper, we'd have to offer them something huge, which is why we've got no chance of getting Harper. 6 and 18 is laughably light.

Try reading what I actually wrote. IN PRINCIPLE....

Now find me a trade where a team gave as much as 6 & 18 to move up 4 spots to #2. Gee... you can't find one, can you... how about that!

OTOH, are there occasions where you'd make a trade like that? Sure! For example in the Lebron draft, any trade for #1 would have been justified.

This year, however, I think there are a number of prospects who might (MIGHT) turn out to be high-level stars. Hence, this year I wouldn't do that trade.

OTOH, if it turns out that Harper is a high level star, while there are zero players available at 6 & 18 who turn out that way, then you'll be right.

Well, Dallas gave 5 and a protected 1st for 3 to draft Luka. Which I believe is a similar situation if you bought thw Luka potential (which was fairly obvious).

[TGW]

If you are a team that wants to take a swing on the next Giannis - Noa is your guy.

It really depends on his mental makeup. Giannis is a psychopath in his work ethic. He is a killer on the court and in the weight room. If Noa is like that, then sign me up!

I think his comp is more Jared Jeffries. His interviews I've watched he actually comes across as aloof.

I was thinking about this comp, and from a statistical standpoint, it doesn't match. Demeanor-wise, maybe; but on the court these are two different players.

Essenge (Age 17/18) vs. Jeffries (Age 20/21)
TS%: .646 vs. .529
FTr: .800 vs. .486
3pr: .272 vs. .171

Jeffries also had a sub 1:1 ast/to ratio, while Essengue has a positive 1:1.

Essengue is just a flat out better offensive player than Jeffries was coming out of college. Essengue's per-36 stats are arguably better than Jeffries per-40 stats. Small sample size for Essengue, but on the court Essengue is just a lot more assertive than Jeffries was. Essengue's free throw rate is really what impresses me...kid gets to the line a lot. For his age, that is surprising because a 17/18 yo being that assertive is not common.

[Hibachi_0]

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Lol, really? This is a draft with a 2 player tier top tier in Flagg and Harper,... There's no chance in hell the Spurs would trade 2 for an offer as light as 6 and 18 lol, it is flat out laughable to consider that too much....

If we want Harper, we'd have to offer them something huge, which is why we've got no chance of getting Harper. 6 and 18 is laughably light.

Try reading what I actually wrote. IN PRINCIPLE....

Now find me a trade where a team gave as much as 6 & 18 to move up 4 spots to #2. Gee... you can't find one, can you... how about that!

OTOH, are there occasions where you'd make a trade like that? Sure! For example in the Lebron draft, any trade for #1 would have been justified.

This year, however, I think there are a number of prospects who might (MIGHT) turn out to be high-level stars. Hence, this year I wouldn't do that trade.

OTOH, if it turns out that Harper is a high level star, while there are zero players available at 6 & 18 who turn out that way, then you'll be right.

Well, Dallas gave 5 and a protected 1st for 3 to draft Luka. Which I believe is a similar situation if you bought thw Luka potential (which was fairly obvious).

Excellent point. & the pick conveyed the next year -- as the #10 pick in 2019.

So that's giving more than 6 & 18. & they got 3 not 2 in return.
Now.... we're talking about Luka Doncic who was a substantially more appealing player than Harper is this year! But still...

Consiglieri -- I stand corrected!

[9 and 20]

Just looked up that trade. Worked out pretty well for the Mavs - Trae Young and Cam Reddish for Luka. Sometimes, when you have a guy like that available, overpaying is the right thing to do. If the trade were for Ayton or Bagley, #1 and #2 that year, might not have looked as smart.

Guess it comes down to Dawkins' view of Harper - is he Cade Cunningham or a JAG.

[nate33]

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I think this guy is a blithering idiot to tell the truth. Edit --- well that's too strong. I just think he's talking through his hat.

If you didn't like this one, you're really not going to like his Wizards-centric video where he suggests that the Wizards trade Champagnie plus #40 to the Celtics for #32 and Xavier Tillman. We dump Champagnie only to move up 8 spots in the 2nd round.

[TheBlackCzar]

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I think this guy is a blithering idiot to tell the truth. Edit --- well that's too strong. I just think he's talking through his hat.

If you didn't like this one, you're really not going to like his Wizards-centric video where he suggests that the Wizards trade Champagnie plus #40 to the Celtics for #32 and Xavier Tillman. We dump Champagnie only to move up 8 spots in the 2nd round.

Yeah after that dumbness was proposed I really didn't know how seriously to take the rest of what he had to say.....

[SUPERBALLMAN]

New No Ceilings Big Board... This is an EXCELLENT discussion on where prospects currently stand...

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Also, I just got their DRAFT GUIDE! I strongly recommend getting it, it is a FANTASTIC resource of information on all of these prospects.

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[pcbothwel]

It really depends on his mental makeup. Giannis is a psychopath in his work ethic. He is a killer on the court and in the weight room. If Noa is like that, then sign me up!

I think his comp is more Jared Jeffries. His interviews I've watched he actually comes across as aloof.

I was thinking about this comp, and from a statistical standpoint, it doesn't match. Demeanor-wise, maybe; but on the court these are two different players.

Essenge (Age 17/18) vs. Jeffries (Age 20/21)
TS%: .646 vs. .529
FTr: .800 vs. .486
3pr: .272 vs. .171

Jeffries also had a sub 1:1 ast/to ratio, while Essengue has a positive 1:1.

Essengue is just a flat out better offensive player than Jeffries was coming out of college. Essengue's per-36 stats are arguably better than Jeffries per-40 stats. Small sample size for Essengue, but on the court Essengue is just a lot more assertive than Jeffries was. Essengue's free throw rate is really what impresses me...kid gets to the line a lot. For his age, that is surprising because a 17/18 yo being that assertive is not common.

Way more pop and offensive skillset than Jefferies.
I think the best comp as a guy who may never be more than a 3rd piece, but will be aggressive and productive as a guy crashing boards, running the floor, and hitting 3’s:
https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=noa-essengue--shawn-marion

He’s top 10 on my board

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How often have you actually watched him play instead of running off his stats? Honest question....

I watched Houston on LP a lot this season since they were doing so well. Sengun feasts on guys like Sarr that he can bully. If he cant get all the way to the rim he throws up garbage shots hoping they go in. His floater is weak. His midrange push shot is laughably ugly. He can't shoot 3s at all.

His TS of 54.5% was Kuzma level.

Agreed. Sengun is a lot like Sabonis. They're both pretty skilled and very strong. They tend to obliterate weaker centers - guys like Gafford, Turner, Sarr, etc., which helps them pad their stats. But when they go up against the really good defensive centers, they get totally shut down. Ultimately, you have a guy who helps you beat bad teams in the regular season, but don't help you win playoff games.

As I've said before, defense matters more and more as you move up positions. The higher the position, the more likely they will be involved in a defensive plays. 1's and 2's are easiest to hide defensively. You can sometimes get by with a defensive liability there. You really want your 3's and 4's to be good defenders, but if one of them is merely okay you can live with it. 5's absolutely have to be good defenders unless they're HOF-caliber good on offense. They're just involved in too many defensive plays. Even if they're really good offensive players, it's just too hard to get them involved in enough offensive plays so that their good offense offsets their bad D.

Do either of Sabonis or Sengun have a teammate like Sarr?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I watched Houston on LP a lot this season since they were doing so well. Sengun feasts on guys like Sarr that he can bully. If he cant get all the way to the rim he throws up garbage shots hoping they go in. His floater is weak. His midrange push shot is laughably ugly. He can't shoot 3s at all.

His TS of 54.5% was Kuzma level.

Agreed. Sengun is a lot like Sabonis. They're both pretty skilled and very strong. They tend to obliterate weaker centers - guys like Gafford, Turner, Sarr, etc., which helps them pad their stats. But when they go up against the really good defensive centers, they get totally shut down. Ultimately, you have a guy who helps you beat bad teams in the regular season, but don't help you win playoff games.

As I've said before, defense matters more and more as you move up positions. The higher the position, the more likely they will be involved in a defensive plays. 1's and 2's are easiest to hide defensively. You can sometimes get by with a defensive liability there. You really want your 3's and 4's to be good defenders, but if one of them is merely okay you can live with it. 5's absolutely have to be good defenders unless they're HOF-caliber good on offense. They're just involved in too many defensive plays. Even if they're really good offensive players, it's just too hard to get them involved in enough offensive plays so that their good offense offsets their bad D.

I also think you have to differentiate between Sabonis and Sengun on D. Sabonis is an elite defensive rebounder although not a rim protector. Sengun is neither. I think if you swapped players straight up - Houston would have gone much further in the playoffs.

I think if you were to pair Sabonis and Sarr, that would be interesting if you will. You just can't run 3 weak defensive wings and a PG with him like the Kings did and expect a good outcome. I mean Kegan Murray is your PF and plays D like a guard.

That's my point. If you put four good defenders around Sabonis or a guy like Queen, it balances things.

[TheBlackCzar]

I watched Houston on LP a lot this season since they were doing so well. Sengun feasts on guys like Sarr that he can bully. If he cant get all the way to the rim he throws up garbage shots hoping they go in. His floater is weak. His midrange push shot is laughably ugly. He can't shoot 3s at all.

His TS of 54.5% was Kuzma level.

Agreed. Sengun is a lot like Sabonis. They're both pretty skilled and very strong. They tend to obliterate weaker centers - guys like Gafford, Turner, Sarr, etc., which helps them pad their stats. But when they go up against the really good defensive centers, they get totally shut down. Ultimately, you have a guy who helps you beat bad teams in the regular season, but don't help you win playoff games.

As I've said before, defense matters more and more as you move up positions. The higher the position, the more likely they will be involved in a defensive plays. 1's and 2's are easiest to hide defensively. You can sometimes get by with a defensive liability there. You really want your 3's and 4's to be good defenders, but if one of them is merely okay you can live with it. 5's absolutely have to be good defenders unless they're HOF-caliber good on offense. They're just involved in too many defensive plays. Even if they're really good offensive players, it's just too hard to get them involved in enough offensive plays so that their good offense offsets their bad D.

Do either of Sabonis or Sengun have a teammate like Sarr?

Nope and that's why Queen here is different than those situations.... San Antonio taking Queen makes alot of sense as he can absorb the beatings for Wemby or Sarr or Chet...... Those unicorns can work with an guy of this nature since he's going to assist with range they can cover and there heights.....

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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I think this guy is a blithering idiot to tell the truth. Edit --- well that's too strong. I just think he's talking through his hat.

If you didn't like this one, you're really not going to like his Wizards-centric video where he suggests that the Wizards trade Champagnie plus #40 to the Celtics for #32 and Xavier Tillman. We dump Champagnie only to move up 8 spots in the 2nd round.

I didn't care for his Champagnie trade idea at all.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

New No Ceilings Big Board... This is an EXCELLENT discussion on where prospects currently stand...

Watch on YouTube

Also, I just got their DRAFT GUIDE! I strongly recommend getting it, it is a FANTASTIC resource of information on all of these prospects.

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Tyler Johnson and Nolan Traore

Just put ten guards on the roster and let them play 9.6 minutes each. That makes sense.

[dckingsfan]

Agreed. Sengun is a lot like Sabonis. They're both pretty skilled and very strong. They tend to obliterate weaker centers - guys like Gafford, Turner, Sarr, etc., which helps them pad their stats. But when they go up against the really good defensive centers, they get totally shut down. Ultimately, you have a guy who helps you beat bad teams in the regular season, but don't help you win playoff games.

As I've said before, defense matters more and more as you move up positions. The higher the position, the more likely they will be involved in a defensive plays. 1's and 2's are easiest to hide defensively. You can sometimes get by with a defensive liability there. You really want your 3's and 4's to be good defenders, but if one of them is merely okay you can live with it. 5's absolutely have to be good defenders unless they're HOF-caliber good on offense. They're just involved in too many defensive plays. Even if they're really good offensive players, it's just too hard to get them involved in enough offensive plays so that their good offense offsets their bad D.

I also think you have to differentiate between Sabonis and Sengun on D. Sabonis is an elite defensive rebounder although not a rim protector. Sengun is neither. I think if you swapped players straight up - Houston would have gone much further in the playoffs.

I think if you were to pair Sabonis and Sarr, that would be interesting if you will. You just can't run 3 weak defensive wings and a PG with him like the Kings did and expect a good outcome. I mean Kegan Murray is your PF and plays D like a guard.

That's my point. If you put four good defenders around Sabonis or a guy like Queen, it balances things.

But that isn't my point. Sabonis has part of the defensive package - he is an elite defensive rebounder at the NBA level. I don't think either Queen or Sengun have those qualities (opinion). I don't think you have to hide Sabonis like you would Sengun or Queen in the playoffs.

[dobrojim]

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I think this guy is a blithering idiot to tell the truth. Edit --- well that's too strong. I just think he's talking through his hat.

If you didn't like this one, you're really not going to like his Wizards-centric video where he suggests that the Wizards trade Champagnie plus #40 to the Celtics for #32 and Xavier Tillman. We dump Champagnie only to move up 8 spots in the 2nd round.

That guy totally lost credibility with that trade proposal for me. Just awful. It seems clear he didn't see JC play very much.

PS, one thing I like about PPA is that it dings players
for negative stuff.

[Jay81]

I was reading the jazz draft forum….not real gm but they seemed to have collectively shifted from tre to fears

And apparently nj is trying to move up to get fears

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Anyone else here been checking out the content being put out by this dude The Dirty Bucket? He's starting to grow on me, some of its pretty good/funny.

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