Breaking: Harden traded from OKC to HOU

[Knighthonor]

Hey OkC could have something good here.

How did Wizards miss out in this guy for GM?

[Knighthonor]

I am much less positive about this trade for OKC. Lamb does not impress me as a future star in this league. His game reminds me of Nick Young, and I don't understand the need to add a Young-like player to a team with the best iso shooter in the league, Durant.

They lose a lot of playmaking and passing and are forced to rely more for both on Westbrook. I think they become a less balanced team and are going to rely more on shooting than getting FTs and breaking down the defense.

He look like Young, but don't see how they play alike. That argument is BS honestly.

[Rafael122]

If only EG had a backbone and the smarts of Presti and his FO!

We're in no position to give up 2 or 3 first round picks.

Can't believe Presti is being called a genius, his own mistake of giving Perkins that extension is what led to this trade being made. He either had to give Harden the max, or trade him for cents on the dollar. No first round pick will match the production Harden gave the Thunder the last couple of seasons. I think Houston wins the trade here, they're not the one giving up a 20 per game scorer.

[closg00]

Rockets just got fleeced. Harden isn't a max player and he isn't a #1 option. He'll be exposed in Houston.

This might hurt OKC for this season in terms of making the finals, but going forward it's a huge win.

+1 Agree 100%, Harden already got exposed in the playoffs, now OKC gets Martin and Lamb BOTH. OKC is going to be fine.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Raffy, I think Presti is probably not finished dealing. Also, Kendrick Perkins' deal can be amnestied.

I could see OKC being a lot better next year if they add a player like Cody Zeller and if they manage to deal Martin for a better big man than Perkins. Another possibility is they create enough space to land a big man by voiding Perkins and letting Martin walk. The Thunder could be players for Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, and Josh Smith; or they could swing a deal for someone like Al Jefferson.

It will come down to the picks they acquired and if they flip Martin's deal IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Rockets just got fleeced. Harden isn't a max player and he isn't a #1 option. He'll be exposed in Houston.

This might hurt OKC for this season in terms of making the finals, but going forward it's a huge win.

+1 Agree 100%, Harden already got exposed in the playoffs, now OKC gets Martin and Lamb BOTH. OKC is going to be fine.

Per usual, I see things the same way you do, closg.

OKC might take a step back in the playoffs this season, but LAL is going be favored, regardless. The smart move if that OKC is a young team and they build for the future. Not overpaying for Harden is the right move IMO. Harden seems to be very immature, and undisciplined off the court.

Time will tell but I think the guy might have already played his best basketball at 22. Harden has been a great player this past season, but will he stay at the level he was with Durant and Westbrook on the first team? I expect he will drop off quite a bit.

[willbcocks]

CCJ: OKC's not going to have cap space to make a play for a big time free agent. They're moving Harden to avoid the tax (2 maxes plus a big deal for Ibaka's contract is making that impossible), so being under the cap is out of the question.

The Toronto pick is top 3 protected next year and if Toronto makes the playoffs, they won't see it for years. As far as protected picks go, it's pretty good, but it's not landing them Cody Zeller.

KnightHonor: I've watched Lamb play a few times this year and looked at his college stats, and the player he reminds me of his young. He can shoot, he can look smooth out on the court, but he doesn't do a whole lot else.

Harden is extremely productive and does it all. He had one bad playoff showing? The guy was 22 years old last playoffs. Maybe playing with Durant and Westbrook inflated his stats, but Harden comes off the bench, so it's not like he spent all his time on the court with them.

Martin's probably a good stopgap for the Thunder, but he's old and not in their longterm plans.

[Induveca]

Also, from a PR/media perspective this helps BOTH teams immensely.

ESPN was already doing their best to have Harden become the next yearly NBA "will he stay" drama of the season. James/Anthony/Howard etc. I am sure Presti wanted no part of that vibe around his young squad after an extension deal wasn't reached.

Houston was in for media hell and a daily story of "what's wrong with Jeremy Lin?" With Harden, not so much. Lin will once again have some room to operate.

After some more time digesting the deal, it makes a lot of sense for both teams on many levels.

[closg00]

Both sides got what they wanted, but Houston is really pressing on getting their "Big Three" in place, betting early on Lin and Harden. Harden is a very good SG, but takeaway Durant and Brooks and what can he do on his own?

Houston paid a steep price for Harden and his potential value as a Max player has not been established yet IMO. I would say he isn't.

[pancakes3]

KnightHonor: I've watched Lamb play a few times this year and looked at his college stats, and the player he reminds me of his young. He can shoot, he can look smooth out on the court, but he doesn't do a whole lot else.

I think so too. Decent sized athletic guard who is lackluster on the boards, has < 2 assists/game, and despite the athleticism doesn't draw a lot of fouls. In fact, Lamb may be even more nick-young than N1 himself. Last season Lamb took more 3's than FT's, at a 33% clip no less.

[DMVleGeND]

Hey OkC could have something good here.

How did Wizards miss out in this guy for GM?

Well we could hire Troy Weaver, his assistant GM. We would instantly be in better position w/ him instead of EG.

[nate33]

I am much less positive about this trade for OKC. Lamb does not impress me as a future star in this league. His game reminds me of Nick Young, and I don't understand the need to add a Young-like player to a team with the best iso shooter in the league, Durant.

They lose a lot of playmaking and passing and are forced to rely more for both on Westbrook. I think they become a less balanced team and are going to rely more on shooting than getting FTs and breaking down the defense.

Agreed. I'm not getting this viewpoint that OKC fleeced Houston. I think Houston got the better end of this.

So much for us trading Okafor for Kevin Martin.

[LyricalRico]

What the heck?!?! Definitely was not expecting this. Methinks OKC made this move too soon. They gave up a potential star for guys that aren't and picks that likely won't be. And it's not like I didn't think they would trade Harden, I just thought they would/should wait for a high lottery pick. I also wonder what Durant thinks about it.

As for Houston, they still have a glut of tweener forwards and I'm not sure Harden should be any team's best player (which is what he'll be this season in HOU). But looking at the trade in vacuum, I'd have to say they won this one on talent. Of course, nothing happens in a vacuum, so let's see how it plays out. At least the Rockets are a shoe-in for this offseason's "Most Unpredictable" award.

[popper]

Unless C. Aldridge turns out to be a stud, which I highly doubt, Houston got screwed. I would have given Beal and Vesely but that's about it .......... the reason of course is that Harden will demand a max contract.

[pancakes3]

I think Lin and Harden will be a very tough backcourt to guard, and doubly so since Patrick Patterson and Montejunas are both credible 3 point threats. The bench is bare but I agree with Rico that they're a tough team to gauge, however I suppose I am more optimistic on Harden's ability to be a 1st option than others.

[miller31time]

Knowing what we know now, I feel like we could have traded Beal and maybe Ves or Booker, plus a future 1st for Harden -- something many of us were clamoring for on this board on draft day.

[DCZards]

Knowing what we know now, I feel like we could have traded Beal and maybe Ves or Booker, plus a future 1st for Harden -- something many of us were clamoring for on this board on draft day.

That would be too much to give up for Harden.

[Rafael122]

Raffy, I think Presti is probably not finished dealing. Also, Kendrick Perkins' deal can be amnestied.

I could see OKC being a lot better next year if they add a player like Cody Zeller and if they manage to deal Martin for a better big man than Perkins. Another possibility is they create enough space to land a big man by voiding Perkins and letting Martin walk. The Thunder could be players for Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, and Josh Smith; or they could swing a deal for someone like Al Jefferson.

It will come down to the picks they acquired and if they flip Martin's deal IMO.

Just because you amnesty a guy doesn't mean you stop paying them. The owner still has to pay him.

Presti screwed the pooch. Personally I think he's overrated as a GM considering a lot of these guys fell into his lap. This was his first big decision as a GM and he blew it.

[payitforward]

I am much less positive about this trade for OKC. Lamb does not impress me as a future star in this league. His game reminds me of Nick Young, and I don't understand the need to add a Young-like player to a team with the best iso shooter in the league, Durant.

They lose a lot of playmaking and passing and are forced to rely more for both on Westbrook. I think they become a less balanced team and are going to rely more on shooting than getting FTs and breaking down the defense.

Agreed. I'm not getting this viewpoint that OKC fleeced Houston. I think Houston got the better end of this.

So much for us trading Okafor for Kevin Martin.

I agree and wrote a long analysis of the trade in the trade thread, which I now realize is not where it should be. I'll copy/paste here:


Presti a) *had to* trade Harden, it wasn’t something he wanted to do, and b) basically he got back cap room next year, a quality prospect, and some draft picks for one of the dozen or so best players in the game.

Not that he could have gotten more or that it’s a bad trade for OKC. But it’s a tremendous trade for Houston and shows you what a good GM can do to rebuild a team.

As to:

“a) he had to trade Harden” — he had the kind of problem you only get if you make a series of terrific draft picks, and all the guys wind up commanding either max deals or at least extremely large contracts after their rookie contracts run out one after the other. This is not a problem we'll ever have here while Ernie is in charge.

There was no way OKC could pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. It would have taken them way over cap, way over luxury tax, and way over the extra penalties that you get if you violate lux tax by a lot. This team is located in Oklahoma City. The revenue base ain’t like LA or NY (nor do they have a Russian plutocrat owner).

In other words, this was always going to happen — that is, one of those guys was going to leave. It probably took as long as it did, because Presti was trying to deal Westbrook; he’s the least outstanding at his position of their crop of young studs, and they have a quality replacement for him. And…

“b) basically he got back a quality prospect, cap room and some picks” — Martin is in the last year of his contract; he’s expiring; unrestricted at the end of the year. He might re-sign for a lot less (see a above — money is the problem here), or more likely IMO, he'll move on. Hence this trade gives Presti breathing room. The picks are nice; he can use them or include them to enrich other trades. Lamb might turn out well, and he makes the trade at least somewhat positive for OKC. So Presti and OKC did well in the trade

But Morey and Houston absolutely made out. They have 9 guys in their first few years on rookie contracts. And they still have their own picks. No way they could have made the picks they gave up — so instead they used them to get an absolute stud. (Aldrich, Hayward and Cook just make the $$ work for the trade; they’ll go away quick.) I'm sure they didn't want to give up Lamb. But, look what they got!

Although I don’t love the Lin signing (apparently pushed relentlessly by the owner), everything else Morey has done looks absolutely brilliant. Omer Asik is a terrific defensive Center, and both Motiejunas and Terrence Jones look awfully good to me. Royce White is a little bit of a wild card, but he brings a lot of potential. Ditto Machado. Not to mention the guys from last year’s draft.

Yup, this is how a good GM rebuilds. Houston is on its way to being a team that can contend for a championship — unlike us. We have "veteran leadership" and a "businesslike locker room". How the difference between someone like Grunfield and a basketball executive like Morey isn't obvious to Ted Leonsis I'll never understand.

[closg00]

An offer that would have averaged $13.5 mil per year was more than fair for Harden. Presti made the right decision.
With Perry Jones, Lamb, Martin, OKC should have more ways to win.

For Houston, are they really going to pay max money for a shooting guard who isn't a 1st option?