The Future may mean trading a big piece...

[pancakes3]

Sorry, who did you propose we trade wall for again? I thought you said Paul George or Enes Kanter.

[TheKingOfVa360]

John is still very young. I am not ready to trade him until we know what we have this year with him. If he hasn't shown improvement, then I think we can move towards trying to find value for him in the summer.
But for now, it'd be foolish to give up on him this soon. Draft day 2010 wasn't that long ago.

What???

explore his value around the league and talk to other GMs

I'm hoping a new, COMPETENT GM, will be honest and evaluate the roster.

Now I see why players don't want to play for this team. Wizards fans never support our own players. Wall has elite PG potential and all he needs is a decent jump shot and teammates. It would be dumb to trade him so early in his career and watch him turn into a star in another city.

[FAH1223]

Now I see why players don't want to play for this team. Wizards fans never support our own players. Wall has elite PG potential and all he needs is a decent jump shot and teammates. It would be dumb to trade him so early in his career and watch him turn into a star in another city.

I support John but Wizards/Bullets fans have been burned for so many years.

Its his 3rd season, so I'm assuming and hoping he will come into his own and this becomes moot.

But he hasn't improved from year 1 to year 2

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Sorry, who did you propose we trade wall for again? I thought you said Paul George or Enes Kanter.

Yeah, my sentiments exactly.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Now I see why players don't want to play for this team. Wizards fans never support our own players. Wall has elite PG potential and all he needs is a decent jump shot and teammates. It would be dumb to trade him so early in his career and watch him turn into a star in another city.

I support John but Wizards/Bullets fans have been burned for so many years.

Its his 3rd season, so I'm assuming and hoping he will come into his own and this becomes moot.

But he hasn't improved from year 1 to year 2

I understand the pain of being a Wiz fan. Wall isn't the problem, the rest of the team is. He has never had good talent around him. We should have built the team like the Bulls built around Drose in Chicago. Shooters to space the floor, big men who can rebound and defend, wings that can defend and score. So far in Wall's career he only played with one player that would start on a title team and that is Nene.

[truwizfan4evr]

Who ever wants to trade wall are crazy! This guy has so much potential to be a star just cause he hasn't improved much in his second year doesn't mean he cant still become an elite point guard in the nba. Wizards fans sometimes make me sick when they give up on player so quickly. Just like most of us given up on Beal.

[Illuminaire]

There is nothing wrong with being open to a John Wall trade... but it has to be for a young stud, or an amazing package of picks. You can't give up a #1 pick who actually has elite, superstar potential without getting back at least 90 cents on the dollar.

[truwizfan4evr]

I under stand but we all know we wont get equal value or more for him. Why trade players just to make a trade? Then wall turns into an elite player and wizards be looking dumb

[TheKingOfVa360]

I under stand but we all know we wont get equal value or more for him. Why trade players just to make a trade? Then wall turns into an elite player and wizards be looking dumb

I agree its dumb. Let's try focusing on surrounding Wall with players that will help him flourish instead of trading him.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Now I see why players don't want to play for this team. Wizards fans never support our own players. Wall has elite PG potential and all he needs is a decent jump shot and teammates. It would be dumb to trade him so early in his career and watch him turn into a star in another city.

I support John but Wizards/Bullets fans have been burned for so many years.

Its his 3rd season, so I'm assuming and hoping he will come into his own and this becomes moot.

But he hasn't improved from year 1 to year 2

He was more judicious with his shots and his field goal percentage increased, his FT% went up, he almost averaged a full block per game, and he averaged 8 assists per game once again without having the strongest cast of offensive players to pass to. We all know he needs to improve his jumper and cut down on the turnovers but Wall is a super PG.

[Dat2U]

To me everyone is talking in circles (and it's an old argument) unless you actually have some specific trade candidates.

It's a stupid idea just to decide to trade Wall. Trade Wall for what? A lottery pick? A couple of role players? A flawed but solid young player?

Trading Wall does not make our situation better, unless we get a better option in return. Anything else, and your basically sounding like a Ernie clone where we have to make up ridiculous and silly reasons to trade someone (i.e. we can't develop players (then fire the front office!!!), Wall will likely want to be traded, Wall's lack of development is too frustrating, we need a "fresh" start, blah, blah, blah....

IMO, Wall is the best thing we've got going. Look at the rest of the garbage on the roster, this 12-13 game stretch has really shown how bare the cupboard really is. Why on earth would we trade the only guy with a hint of REAL UPSIDE just to trade him?

[MF23]

Nivek's post was spot on.

Vesely is the player I'm interested in moving. I'd like to have him off the roster by the deadline while he still has value. He's still at a stage where another team can feel like they can light a fire under him.

[truwizfan4evr]

Can Wall benefit from this environment?? When he returns is he the type of player that can lift them to playoff contention?? The answers are no and no.

I didnt read all before I commented before.

but for this, Wizards simply fail at drafting over the years. the Jan pick, and the (maybe Beal here, give him more time I guess)

Wall is piece of the pie. Need a star SF and Star SG to go along side Wall.

KS been nice as a PF.

So a Center is whats needed there for the bigs.

In this generation of NBA games, you dont get far unless you on a super team.

So trading away star talent while waiting on more star talent wont get you anywhere in theory.

Wizards hold Wall, and get a all star SF/SG/C in the draft, this team could then pull a OKC.

Right now they simply not doing that with the talent they have.

I dont blame the coach that much here. the team lacks talent. simple as that.


a new management of Draft and trades would be a stepping stone to improving this team.

I agree buddy

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This board overrates Wall greatly. Dat, there are winning PGs who are not great athletes. Wall is a great athlete who is not a great PG. His jump shot is not the best thing going. He has cost the Wizards games in the past. My inclination is trading him could be the best move. His knee could explode and he becomes damaged goods if it does.

nykfan757, I feel your original post.

[truwizfan4evr]

This board overrates Wall greatly. Dat, there are winning PGs who are not great athletes. Wall is a great athlete who is not a great PG. His jump shot is not the best thing going. He has cost the Wizards games in the past. My inclination is trading him could be the best move. His knee could explode and he becomes damaged goods if it does.

nykfan757, I feel your original post.

I'm against trading wall who would we get back for him? Who could wizards bring in for Wall that can turn this horrible team around? Trading him at this point at the age of 22 is very pointless in my opinion.

[Illuminaire]

This board overrates Wall greatly. Dat, there are winning PGs who are not great athletes. Wall is a great athlete who is not a great PG. His jump shot is not the best thing going. He has cost the Wizards games in the past. My inclination is trading him could be the best move. His knee could explode and he becomes damaged goods if it does.

nykfan757, I feel your original post.

Eh. I wouldn't go quite that far. Wall has excellent vision and passing instincts. He at least tries on defense. He's a decent rebounder. Basically, he does just about everything but shoot - that's why his overall impact is still "average starter" even though he's terribly inefficient as a scorer.

So you have a floor of "average starter" with the upside ceiling of "completely unguardable, dominant 2-way player". While it's very possible Wall will never learn to hit threes or maximize his defensive ability, those are still in play. You don't have to overrate his present (average) to recognize that the chances of him becoming a superstar are still high enough that you don't trade him for anything less than another shot at a true stud.

I concede that the knee issue is worrisome, but I think at least some of that is emotional baggage from the Arenas debacle. We're a scarred collective, we Wizfans.

[nykfan757]

First off let me say I appreciate the feedback from both sides of the debate...this wasn't meant to incite anything just a healthy look into what the future of the team is.

I wanna respond to a few things.

Sorry, who did you propose we trade wall for again? I thought you said Paul George or Enes Kanter.

Those two players would never be swapped one for one with Wall...they would be centerpieces.

Idk how much of Indiana you get to see...but Paul George is a budding star. 6'8" with range and a pretty good defender. George, a couple 1sts and another player and I think you should take a listen.

Same with Kanter, he doesn't start because Al Jefferson is finally realizing what he always should have been, but he will VERY soon. That's a potential 18/11 guy every night on the block...Kanter and a couple picks with a filler and you'd be crazy not to listen.

I gave those two as quick examples because they play for teams that could sacrifice them to strength another position.

To me everyone is talking in circles (and it's an old argument) unless you actually have some specific trade candidates.

It's a stupid idea just to decide to trade Wall. Trade Wall for what? A lottery pick? A couple of role players? A flawed but solid young player?

Trading Wall does not make our situation better, unless we get a better option in return. Anything else, and your basically sounding like a Ernie clone where we have to make up ridiculous and silly reasons to trade someone (i.e. we can't develop players (then fire the front office!!!), Wall will likely want to be traded, Wall's lack of development is too frustrating, we need a "fresh" start, blah, blah, blah....

IMO, Wall is the best thing we've got going. Look at the rest of the garbage on the roster, this 12-13 game stretch has really shown how bare the cupboard really is. Why on earth would we trade the only guy with a hint of REAL UPSIDE just to trade him?

Ask Memphis how that worked out when they were going absolutely nowhere with Pau Gasol. Got what they could (which includes their current starting center and they peddled other assets and money for Randolph and Tony Allen. Now they have a legit shot at a title. They had to take a step back...gather what little asset they did have...and maximize the potential he could bring back. They did it beautifully with Pau and everyone can see the results.

Now I see why players don't want to play for this team. Wizards fans never support our own players. Wall has elite PG potential and all he needs is a decent jump shot and teammates. It would be dumb to trade him so early in his career and watch him turn into a star in another city.

And what coach do the Wizards have now or the prospect of getting that will bring this "elite PG potential" out of him? If he doesn't have a system to work in how can he grow?? Doc Rivers was a pretty damn good guard...and he can't get Rondo to stop chucking bricks...you think anyone but Wall himself can fix that terrible ass jump shot?? I like the kid but cmon...inconsistent is being nice.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If you want to give him a fair assessment before looking at trades, CCJ, I think 10-15 games isnt enough. I think he'll need to knock thr rust off the wheels. I'm predicting the first 5 games or so to range from mediocre to horrible. He needs to get in game shape, but i think he is smart enough to realise that and will be fine with having his minutes limited for a while.

dangermouse, I agree. Make it 25 games.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There is nothing wrong with being open to a John Wall trade... but it has to be for a young stud, or an amazing package of picks. You can't give up a #1 pick who actually has elite, superstar potential without getting back at least 90 cents on the dollar.

Agreed.

--If in exchange for Wall the Wizards got Brandon Knight and a pick that turns into Alex Len, while keeping their own (probable lottery) pick; that could turn out to be better than 90%.

--If the Wizards got Paul George and a pick that turns out to be C J McCullough, they could be in decent shape if they draft another stud with their own pick.

Wall traded could return talented players, one even better than Wall all by himself. If just depends on the deal, but Wall trade ideas would have to be like these ideas, Illuminaire. Young studs/picks in return for Wall is the only kind of deal to entertain.

I concede that the knee issue is worrisome, but I think at least some of that is emotional baggage from the Arenas debacle. We're a scarred collective, we Wizfans.

Yes, I know I am scarred, scurred, etc. I have been conditioned to expect the worst to happen with the Wizards. I speculated about Nene playing 60+ games and Wall playing 50 or so games in another post. Yet, part of me thinks it is more likely Wall shuts it down all season or he gets seriously injured after a few games. Also, Nene might not play 45 games. Wall's knee issue is an emotional topic. So is every game Nene plays.

[nate33]

Idk how much of Indiana you get to see...but Paul George is a budding star. 6'8" with range and a pretty good defender. George, a couple 1sts and another player and I think you should take a listen.

I'm not buying into the Paul George hype just yet. He's a solid player, but he's done nothing to indicate to me that he's a budding star. Here is a per-36 minute comparison of him and one of our small forwards:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  MIN eFG%  TS%  PER
webster,martell 15.2  6.1  2.2  1.0  0.7  2.2 21.3 .553 .641 15.8
george,paul     15.4  6.9  3.1  1.2  0.7  2.8 35.3 .490 .518 14.0

Even if we look at his numbers last year, he doesn't thrill me:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  MIN eFG%  TS%  PER
george,paul     14.8  6.8  2.9  2.0  0.7  2.2 29.6 .510 .555 16.5

I can isolate just the second half of last year too:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  MIN eFG%  TS%  PER
george,paul     14.9  7.1  3.1  2.2  0.7  2.2 28.2 .488 .526 16.1

Yes, it's nice that he's doing it at age 22, but it's still his 3rd season. He'll improve some, but history suggest that his improvement going forward won't be all that dramatic. SG and SF are the easiest positions to learn in the league. WYSIWYG by the time you get into a player's 3rd season. It's generally only PG's and bigs who continue to develop for a 4th or 5th year. He doesn't look like someone I'd sacrifice John Wall to acquire.