Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[closg00]

Well there is Kwame Brown.

Kwame is obviously a better player than Jan, but it was a slightly different situation.

Wow, worse than Kwame Brown, that's an indictment.

[FAH1223]

Kwame was a bust but Kwame has been able to have a long career focusing on post defense and rebounding. He also ATLEAST produced a little bit for us while he was here despite his flaws. I think Kwame averaged 11 and 7 in his best year... Jan will never reach those numbers... EVER in the NBA.

I called him a bust on 6/23/2011 and he still is one. Maybe if he was in San Antonio, he'd have a chance.

[OffTheWall2]

Vesely is the only lottery pick I've ever seen in my life that I can honestly say is without a doubt worse than Jared Jeffries.

[Knighthonor]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEIotzy3_A[/youtube]

This.

Seriously, what did EG see in this guy in the Euro league that made him a lotto pick.

That's what I would like to know. Maybe I can come to an understanding if he had elite talent over there, so he drafted him with lotto pick over here.

Fill me in.

[montestewart]

Well there is Kwame Brown.

Kwame is obviously a better player than Jan, but it was a slightly different situation.

If Kwame Brown had been chosen in the second half of the 1st, and if Vesely had been chosen late 1st or 2nd, people might have had more patience. Vesely''s obviously a bust for a 6th pick, and has seemed so sicne he arrived, but for a brief span last year. He still might look better on a full, healthy Wizards, as he might look better someday on another team, but he also might have a little Blatche-itus, seemingly unwilling to work on shoring up his shortcomings. I have no reservations about moving him, but no problem keeping him either. It's a lost season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What monte just said, I agree. He's a bust for a 6th pick but in a different situation JV can look better. Move him or not, whatever.

Last season, Jan Vesely played 1007 minutes.

The Wizards were +1.9 points per 100 possessions BETTER with Jan on the court than they were with him on the bench.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS14.HTM

How was that possible? Who did he replace? Javale McGee, Rashard Lewis, Andray Blatche, Trevor Booker. Vesely is 2 years younger than McGee or Booker. Jan is still filling in to his body. He's new to the NBA. YET, the team was better with Vesely on the court last season. At the end of the season Vesely was playing his best basketball.

The significant difference this season is there is no James Singleton and there are guys like Okafor, Chris Singleton, and healthy Booker ahead of Vesely at PF. Jan has regressed for that reason. James spread the court which helped. The other guys are ahead of Vesely at PF. Jan has no role.

He a bust for where he was picked, but the Wizards are idiots. I hope Vesely gets traded to a team like the Spurs so the Wizards can watch him have a useful career. Dominic McGuire got waived by Toronto, but he impressed in Golden State and he's still bouncing around the league. Jan Vesely is 7-freaking feet tall.

Personally, I would wait and see how Vesely does when Wall comes back.

If I coached the Wizards, very occasionally, I would play Vesely at SMALL FORWARD at times. The guy is a hustle player who can pass and who can finish at the rim. I would utilize Webster and Ariza at SG a lot more often. Vesely at SF would be a 5-minute thing, depending on a match up. His role would be pass, rebound, do garbage stuff. He would play whenever the opposing SF was a non scorer. I would play Vesely at all three frontcourt positions but his role would be: to provide hustle/energy.

[hands11]

Beal and Ves will look better when Wall returns and Nene is out there with him.

Both are more structured system players. As such. Neither should be playing much right now.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Vesely should only see the court like he did against the Knicks, when the game is already decided. I had hope for him at times last season and this preseason, but he is just really terrible.

Kwame was a bust at #1, but even he was much better than Vesely, and had a higher potential (unfulfilled) ceiling as well making the high pick more rational.

Vesely would of made sense at 36, not 6.

At least Singleton is starting to look like a player out of that draft. IMO the drafting of Vesely at 6 is reason enough for Ernie to get the axe. It's that bad of a pick.

[truwizfan4evr]

Now that David stern retiring do we have a chance at a top 2 or 3 pick again? Wizards worst team in nba im rooting for other bad teams to win and wizards to lose so we can have the advantage in the draft.

[pineappleheadindc]

You really have to hand it to Ernie Grunfeld.

Who else would draft a Euro who can't shoot at #6?

[montestewart]

One reason not to get rid of Vesely is to avoid having the same fool that drafted him be the one that has to give up assets to get rid of him. I'd rather a new GM come in and evaluate him and see if there's any value that can be salvaged. Every GM in the league knows EG''s beaten down and desperate to make a yet illogical transaction with a 1% home run possibility. Soon they'll be lining up for one of his pennies on the dollar trades.

[closg00]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Vesely is not worse despite the statistics and his play in games.

I wish people like Michael Lee understood better why things appear the way they do. I wish Ted and Ernie understood how being dominated in practice by Okafor, Nene, Seraphin, Booker, and Singleton has not helped Vesely. Getting moved back because more bodies were added to the team has hurt him. Having limited opportunities for minutes has hurt. Playing for the stupidest GM/team in the league is more to blame.

Headlines like the one Lee has only do more of the same DUMB stuff. Blame McGee. Blame Blatche. Blame Nick Young. Cut Shelvin Mack. Hate Vesely all the way back to Europe.

The Wizards front office is like an alligator that eats its own young. Fans and local media vent and blame young players who have such little impact on the outcome of games when the true culprit is a very bad general manager who never should have drafted him 6th.

Vesely can be a very useful basketball player and I am pulling for him to be traded to another team so that like those other players he can be happy elsewhere. Put Vesely on the Lakers bench right now and you will see just how misplaced and dumb the criticisms leveled at Jan Vesely are.

Ernie is a fool for not impressing upon Ted Leonsis the concept of minutes and opportunity for young players being important. Bring in marginal veterans ahead of them and they don't play. They don't play and they lose confidence. Seraphin has turned into a real shot jacker this season. His selfish play stands out. The ball is like a hot potato and he cannot wait to shoot all of a sudden. Was he like that last season? Could he be impatient or playing anxiously?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... pke01.html

Lee is attacking Vesely, because IMO people are like chickens. When chickens are gathered together, if one chick gets pecked it can set off a frenzy. Many other chicks will peck the one until it is dead. What the journalist and others might note is how Kevin has fallen off. Check his PER and WS/48. Much worse than last season. Mike Lee, you want to write another hatchet article? Kevin Seraphin can be your next victim. It is really easy to print stuff like that.

But just like Vesely, Kevin Seraphin is NOT any worse.

I posted about this the day the Okariza trade went down. This is EXACTLY what I predicted that day. The reasons are the GM and the owner and anyone else who does not understand how few minutes are available and how to develop a roster.

[MikeTheKid]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/jan-vesely-moving-backward-in-his-second-season/2012/12/01/04c20884-3c05-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html

Its starting to really sound like Olexey Pecherov all over again

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The parallel would be minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eol01.html

His improvement was pretty decent from his 1st to 3rd season, but his career left nothing to show for it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2008/

His rookie season Oleksiy shot the ball exceptionally poorly and he was light on the boards. Pecherov was drafted by a team that had very young Blatche and two other rookies, Dominic McGuire and Nick Young. He was also behind Jamison, Butler, Haywood, and Darius Songaila on the depth chart.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2009/

He second and last season with the Wizards was the year EJ was fired after 11 games. The Wizards were 3-29 in games he played. Pecherov managed a remarkably low 2 assists all season long. Even more remarkable, for a 7 footer was the 3 blocks all season long. Along with the coaching change, the Wizards drafted another 7 footer, Javale McGee to play with all those young guys. EG fired EJ. Pecherov lacked ability. The Wizards lacked stability.

What happened next?

June 24, 2009: Traded by the Washington Wizards with Darius Songaila, Etan Thomas and a 2009 1st round draft pick (Ricky Rubio) to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Randy Foye and Mike Miller.

The Wizards traded Pecherov to the Timberwolves under Kurt Rambis. That team finished 15-67. Rambis was tough and physical as a player. He was a terrible coach. Pecherov's last season went like this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2010/

One game of 24 and 8 against Boston, and an otherwise poor season. What Pecherov did better was rebound. That was it for his NBA career.

My opinion is Pecherov had the tools to be like Matt Bonner, but not the drive or determination or confidence. It hurt his career to be drafted by Washington and traded to Minnesota, two of the most clueless (but Kahn's way better than Ernie) organizations.

[pancakes3]

CCJ,

I think you're merging two different arguments. The management does stink and at times the board does tend to scapegoat but that doesn't change the fact that Ves is underperforming his draft status - and by a large margin at that. Ves is a #6 pick and really there isn't much separating him from a guy like Josh McRoberts who was drafted #37.

And speaking of transplanting him to the lakers bench - I doubt he'll be doing much better than #8 pick and fellow bust Jordan Hill.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He should not have been drafted #6. Why is this newsworthy when it has been obvious some time?

Jan Vesely is not as good as McRoberts, IMO.

He is probably not any better than Jordan Hill, either.

(EDITED-if this post is too long, read just the red, the bold, and the enlarged below)

My point is why trash a 22-year old? His minutes and play don't make the Wizards worse and he hasn't gotten worse in one season.

I may have made two different points, but I don't think I am merging arguments, pancakes.

The year Kwame went first I said trade that pick and get two. Select Shane Battier and either Troy Murphy or Zach Randolph. I didn't waste time hating on Kwame because it wasn't his fault they took him first (even though he asked for them to). Kwame is still in the league and valued by Doug Collins as a low post defender. One point I tried to make on Vesely is he is a bust relative to where he was drafted, but still can be useful.

Second, the real issue is minutes and player development. I included Seraphin's downward trend to illustrate what I think is happening with Vesely as well. They played more last season and played better statistically. How are the veteran additions Ted/EG had to make helping? They are not. They are simply taking minutes away from players and retarding their development, while increasing the likelihood they get traded, like Pecherov and McGee.

pancakes, Vesely is being treated unfairly by the media, the fans, and the Wizards. He is playing like a deer in the headlights because he is not very good. He would be BETTER and MORE CONFIDENT if Ernie freaking Grunfeld had simply brought back James Singleton and not messed up the roster. Randy Wittman cannot play Vesely the same as he did last season. Wall is not present and the team is not running the same way.

I am on Vesely's side because I know he's better than he is playing and I know the Wizards were +1.9 points per 100 possession BETTER with him in the lineup last season over the 1007 minutes he played.

Ignorance is bliss. People want to hate on Vesely but they really don't understand the intangibles he brings and how he can help a team if used correctly. Get over him being drafted 6th. Mike Lee wrote a hatchet article and that type of journalism is more harmful than good. I would respect Lee if he writes a few article on what an IDIOTIC DECISION Ted Leonsis made retaining Ernie Grunfeld.

[closg00]

CCJ, I agree with much of what you have written Re: Jan and the Wiz player development, as I have written before, this org are expert at botching assets. A player with Jan's very limited skill-set and NBA experience should have been playing full-time minutes in the D-league shadowed by Wiz assistants since he was drafted, then try to introduce him into the rotation....just like the Spurs and a dozen other teams would do with a player like Jan. (He should never have been picked 6th or 26th)

However, Flip brought-in a shooting coach initially for Jan and Randy and the assistants have tried to work with him as-well. Jan has exactly the same limited skill-set he had when he arrived, he doesn't appear to have picked-up anything during the off-season. When he has had opportunities to try anything beyond hot-potato basketball, he whiffs. Jan does have some responsibility to do some of the things Randy has been imploring him to do. When he was a starter, he did not seize the opportunity.

I have no-doubt that Jan would play better with Wall because he would be set-up for dunks, but he still would have his same, limited skill-set.

[nate33]

CCJ, you can't, with a straight face, blame the organization for Vesely's lack of development. Okariza isn't to blame for Vesely's bad play. Wittman not giving him minutes isn't to blame for Vesely's bad play. Vesely is to be blamed for his bad play. He's a bad basketball player.

It's not the organization's fault that he stinks. It's the organization's fault for drafting him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

closg00, when they drafted him the dude was shooting something like 50% FTs. That should have been a clue.

Now they want him to be able to shoot? As Steven A. Smith would (lie) and say, "Never please."

closg00, I don't see why he cannot go to the D-League at age 22, unless the Wizards think he will stink there, too.

Randy can implore all he wants but how much less time has he had to learn to shoot than John Wall? I think the hot potato thing could be because he is panicking. I have one son who I have to try NOT to admonish, implore, exhort, etc. Dude seems to do better when I leave him alone to figure a thing or two out on his own. It is frustrating and you wonder what he will or won't do. In Vesely's case, I would just appreciate the positive energy he brings and encourage him. Good luck with the skills development.