Clippers and Wizards had a deal in place for Caron

[Upper Decker]

During the tuff juice era I was a big fan, however, not so much of the prune juice era. I always hated his defense, although his effort was respectable. The latter years of prune juice were difficult to watch. Jab step, jab step, up fake, up fake, contested jumper. Prada had a good piece about Butler as sort of a kick on the ass on his way out.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/4/27/1446162/caron-butler-was-a-big-part-of-the

[Illuminaire]

The deal as reported makes no sense for the Wiz. Not only is Ariza younger and better, but there's also a chance he opts out this summer. Butler's money is fully guaranteed.

Fish, that's just it. Ariza might not be contractually obligated to play for the Wizards after next year. Butler, while more expensive and inferior in most ways, would be contractually obligated to play for the Wizards for two years guaranteed!

That makes him a much better asset to have. Def.

[closg00]

Ariza is young-enough to take his last, big pay-day next year with us (a playoff team), then hit FA.

[queridiculo]

Oh lord please save us from Ernie Grunfeld.

[LyricalRico]

During the tuff juice era I was a big fan, however, not so much of the prune juice era.

[Wizardspride]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226375/Clippers-Wizards-Had-Butler-For-Ariza-Trade-Agreed-Upon

Thoughts?

*Edit*: what a pointless trade if it actually happened. I don't think there would be any financial reasons for it, and Caron isn't really an upgrade over Ariza at this point. The only thing it would serve to do is add a player that may not be too happy they are being traded from a legitimate contender to a non-contending team. Why open yourself to the possibility of adding yet another disgruntled player?

I guess you missed this part.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/d ... f:nbahpt3b



Butler, who still has an offseason home in the D.C. area, and who was loved by the locals, didn't have a problem returning to a non-Arenas Wizards locker room. He'd have been welcomed back as a much-needed offensive option, according to sources.)

[Kanyewest]

Ariza is better, younger and even makes a little less.

Ariza is better defensively, Butler looks like he is a better 3 point shooter.

[illastrate]

As a Clipper fan, I agree that it doesn't make sense for either party. Caron provides 3pt shooting, particularly in the half court offense which Clips need. Plus they already have Barnes and Hill as wing defenders. For the Wiz, what does getting a 32 year old swingman do for a young team? It's the definition of just making a trade to make a trade.

[Mickstix]

if Sterling nixed it does that mean Leonsis gave his approval...smh

I wouldnt doubt it for a second.. SMH.

[crackhed]

it's like watching the circus

[hands11]

Kind of glad it didn't go down. Not sure what the long term upside was for Washington. Best case scenario would have been that Caron's offensive numbers rose dramatically upon his return to the Zards and by the time next years trade deadline rolled around, he would end up being a better trade chip than Ariza. IDK

At least now we have some idea of of Ariza's trade value going forward, but unless we get a new GM, I doubt the knowledge will do us much good.

Hopefully that is all it was. Getting the Wizards name out there and establishing value.

[dobrojim]

The deal as reported makes no sense for the Wiz. Not only is Ariza younger and better, but there's also a chance he opts out this summer. Butler's money is fully guaranteed.

Fish, that's just it. Ariza might not be contractually obligated to play for the Wizards after next year. Butler, while more expensive and inferior in most ways, would be contractually obligated to play for the Wizards for two years guaranteed!

That makes him a much better asset to have. Def.

or it would if he was actually similarly productive. Since he's not,
something you imply you agree with, I'm not sure that is a more valuable
asset.

[dangermouse]

Perplexing if there wasnt a first on the table from the Clips. Maybe we are not getting the full story, and that is why Sterl nixed it?

The deal sort of makes sense in terms of team balance, there have been games where we have needed a wing scorer or really just anyone we could rely on to get us a bucket when others have been off their game, and I doubt our defense would have taken much of a hit going from Ariza to Caron.

It all comes down to whether Caron would have given effort here as others have pointed out, which comes down to how much love he still has for the org.

I would bet that the deal was not a simple swap. You don't trade two players on almost identical contracts where the talent is about the same level and one is younger than the other by a significant margin, without the team trading the older player giving up a little somethin somethin.

I'm probably underestimating Grunfeld though.

[verbal8]

I would bet that the deal was not a simple swap. You don't trade two players on almost identical contracts where the talent is about the same level and one is younger than the other by a significant margin, without the team trading the older player giving up a little somethin somethin.

I'm probably underestimating Grunfeld though.

Hmm Old for Young. Full deal for Opt out. Sounds like the EG I know.

If there was a pick involved, then the deal is defensible. Maybe it was Crawford and Ariza for Butler and a 1st. That is actually a good deal for the Wizards and a decent one for the Clippers.

[W. Unseld]

My guess is we would've owed them Beal & a first round pic.

[Kanyewest]

Jordan Crawford may have been a part of the deal, hence the questions about chemistry coming into play.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

as much as I used to like Caron, I'm happy for the time being to keep Ariza

+100000000

It is ironic that the other owner was worried about losing chemistry when it is Grunfeld who should have been worried about chemistry.

Ted and EG are really bad at what they do. Caron undermined Flip Saunders and turned all of his good play into selfish play toward the end. Butler didn't play much defense and he took a ton of shots. He got a ring while injured with Dallas and I was happy for him, because Caron seems like a great guy (aside from that last season with the Wiz when he obviously wanted out).

Why in the world would they just FORGET the last time Caron was here he was on a 23-59 team?

Ariza is playing his heart out now and Ted/EG want to trade him BEFORE his VALUE GOES THROUGH THE ROOF. Dumb. I am very happy that Sterling nixed the deal. Caron would have been MISERABLE back on the Wizards. Let him stay with the stars in LAC where they have Paul, Blake, Billups, and Jamal who can all score with Lob City. Butler gets clean looks when they call his number.

Whoever got the idea to bring Butler back to DC really was not thinking straight IMO. Hijack a player who they think is coveted. Right now I think ARIZA IS BETTER THAN CARON. He's also 5 years younger. And, he's a great team player for this Wizard team. His career is going better than in New Orleans and the dude was probably content as a Wizard. But they want to trade him … NOW????

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eca01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... atr01.html

I wish someone would show every word of what I say to Grunfeld and Leonsis. I would tell them why this is not a great idea, but I would LOVE TO KNOW WHY THEY THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I would bet that the deal was not a simple swap. You don't trade two players on almost identical contracts where the talent is about the same level and one is younger than the other by a significant margin, without the team trading the older player giving up a little somethin somethin.

I'm probably underestimating Grunfeld though.

Hmm Old for Young. Full deal for Opt out. Sounds like the EG I know.

If there was a pick involved, then the deal is defensible. Maybe it was Crawford and Ariza for Butler and a 1st. That is actually a good deal for the Wizards and a decent one for the Clippers.

+1

(I don't like it even with the pick. Hijacking a 33-year old who is definitely in decline and one that doesn't wish to be in DC. That is crazy! Ariza is a HUGE reason the team is winning games now. Caron's full deal probably is one that might see him get hurt, too. DUMB.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Who would trade a 27 yr-old player who has (only) played 14,750 minutes for a 32-year old player with 26,100 minutes?


The older player is a guaranteed cap hit, and the younger might come off the books in 27 games. The older player would not want to be a Wizard and the other, younger player busts his tail giving 100% nightly for the Wizards. Trevor is even supportive of Webster, who he shares minutes with. He is a team player.

The Wizards wanted the old player with twice the minutes and half the motivation. They wanted the guy who doesn't want to be in DC.

Ernie, I'm sorry but you and Ted are really making me scratch my head. Maybe EG/Ted were thinking Butler would drop 20 a night at SF. Further, with Butler they wouldn't have to re-sign Martell Webster. I guess that's what they thought …...

This trade being leaked lets both Ariza and Webster know they are NOT in the Wizards long term plans, and that the Wizards would replace them with (old) Caron Butler. Way to bust the feel good, great team karma back down a notch, Ted and EG. Same old Wizards management messing with heads. Webster is definitely playing better than Butler and I value Ariza's defense and game just as much as Butler's if not more. It's a business but still, that is a great way to demotivate guys and make them leave ASAP.) Commitment should not just go one way, player to organization.

[dangermouse]

I hope we get an answer to some of these questions, or some clarity on the exact nature of the trade, from Ted or EG some how or some way. Ted still got that Blog?