2013 Summer League Standouts ??

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Yeah, I edited above to talk about Cooley.

Cooley is really good. I think the lack of success of Luke Harangody (and Cooley resembling Harangody in the minds of those who make these type comparisons) might be why he was not given more love pre-draft.

The guy who, when it's all said and done, IMO is going to be the biggest surprise is Ray McCallum, Jr. He's better than Burke. He's better than my pick, Nate Wolters. He's going to be a 10-yr pro, and a starter in this league before too long. McCallum is a player I might pick over McCollum, because he's a distributor as well as a solid defender who can score, without being a volume shooter. Wolters is going to be solid, but in this case I see where athleticism will allow McCallum to do a lot in the NBA.

I thought he'd be pretty good. He fell under the list of honorable mentions in my '2nd Rd Draft Options' thread. Others on the list who had a good Summer League were Ian Clark, Arsalan Kazemi, and Andre Roberson. Muscala and Carmichael had decent showings.

[hands11]

hands, I think you're just like everyone else who hates on my picks.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1425

This is what I said June 25th, before the draft:

I think drafting Porter is NOT the best move.

Draft Olynyk and Karasev instead.

Karasev will exceed all expectations. He might be better than Porter. Karasev won't disrupt continuity by running off Webster or contract year Ariza, because Karasev won't start immediately.

Olynyk is by FAR the most efficient post scorer. He will be a playoff scorer who brings Brad Miller/Luis Scola skill. Forget about athleticism--dude puts the ball in the basket!

In round 2 pick Wolters, Canaan, McCallum (I have a very good feeling that he's massively underrated, like Karasev) or Siva.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1470

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him third.

I don't hate your picks. Actually, you liked some of the same players I did. I just think you list a lot of names as well.

I think you are missing the point. As for your small mind comment. I think its small minded of you to A) need to throw that kind of comment in there, and B) to totally over react to what I wrote ... missing what it actually said.

Point is, several of us can claim the same gift. I tagged a nice group of players that went to the top of the lottery this year and I did the same last year. CJM, Otto, and VO were early tags for me. One of my long shots was P Jackson who wasn't even on the board at the time.

I hated Zeller as a center. Then learned he would be a PF and could shoot from outside, then I liked him.

I also predicted some that would fall while everyone was drinking the KooKaid. cough cough.. Shabbazz. I wasn't drinking the MJG KooKaid last year. I was all in for Beal.

Several of us have a pretty good track record finding players. But we also miss on things also.

I remember I was reading an old draft thread and tons of us liked J Harper that year. Even people that might not remember they did. Now that was a late first or early 2nd prediction but so far he is nothing like we though he would be. Which honestly, was just a quality outside shooter off the bench.

As for KO, I think a lot of us said he would be a good S4 at the pro level. Its not that people hated him per say. And until we start the season, we really dont know any more then he did well against B/C level talent. Thats a good place to start. Good players should do well against lesser players. KO is a hard worker and has some polish to his game. Now lets see it against NBA level talent. Lets see him defend.

Bennett is another good example. People either loved him, had lots of questions or hated him. Most had lots of questions and liked other picks a head of him .. specially on the Wizards.. He went #1. So now we will wait and see. Can the play defense ? Will he stay healthy ? #1 is a lot to live up to. Took Wall 3 years to do it. So if he posted AJ numbers on offense, he will look good, but will it help his team win ? Only time will tell.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Its easy to gloss over the ones you get wrong. If you were a real GM, those would show up on your face like a 3rd eye zit for all to see, every day for years. Just owning it wouldn't wash it away like people do here. You would have draft picks and million dollar contracts hanging around your neck.

Plus you can't list 20 players and then shout if one or two make it.

Also, its also a lot easier to do this when there isn't any money on the line. Add the stress, responsibility and accountability to the decision, and you might find you have some major shrinkage when it comes time to making the call.

Gloss over things ones I get wrong... third eye zit for all to see years and years ... can't shout about 20 and list one or two that make it .... easy when no money is on the line .... you might find you have major shrinkage ....

What could I have possibly overreacted to?

I think this is pretty funny, actually. hands, I think I do better when pressure is on and I generally make good decisions.

[hands11]

Its easy to gloss over the ones we get wrong. If we were a real GM, those would show up on ourfaces like a 3rd eye zit for all to see, every day for years. Just owning it wouldn't wash it away like people do here. Wewould have draft picks with million dollar contracts hanging around ournecks.

Plus people can't list 20 players and then shout if one or two that make it.

Also, its also a lot easier to do this when there isn't any money on the line. Add the stress, responsibility and accountability to the decision, and one might find they have some major shrinkage when it comes time to making the call.

Gloss over things ones I get wrong... third eye zit for all to see years and years ... can't shout about 20 and list one or two that make it .... easy when no money is on the line .... you might find you have major shrinkage ....

What could I have possibly overreacted to?

I think this is pretty funny, actually. hands, I think I do better when pressure is on and I generally make good decisions.

My over use of the word "you" when "one, we, etc" would work better, does get me into trouble sometimes. Those comments were to a post you made. And you were included in the group, but it wasn't my intent to completely single you out like that read.

Here, I edited it so it reads better.

Point is, I think several of us think we have a real talent at this. We also bust as well.

Example. Right now I have T Rob and Wesley Johnson hanging around my neck. I thought both would be way better. Still not giving up on them though. I also liked Marshon Brooks as a bench SG that might become something bigger. Still waiting. So I have some cleaning on on isle 5 that I am waiting on.

I also said Burke would be good as a rookie. He had a rough summer league. You sound like you think he will be a bust. Lets see come mid season.

[doclinkin]

Point is, I think several of us think we have a real talent at this. We also bust as well.

Example. Right now I have T Rob and Wesley Johnson hanging around my neck. I thought both would be way better. Still not giving up on them though. I also liked Marshon Brooks as a bench SG that might become something bigger. Still waiting. So I have some cleaning on on isle 5 that I am waiting on.

hands: First time ever I've seen you admit to being wrong on anything, and I applaud you for it. Nice to see.

[payitforward]

... McCallum is a player I might pick over McCollum, because...

Oh man... I hope we don't spend much time talking about those two. I might get dizzy keeping the names straight!

[payitforward]

...hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him (Olynyk) third.

So... that's your stance? We should have picked Olynyk third? That way, later, we can go back and see whether you were wrong or right? That's it?

And, since McCallum is now better than Wolters, and Wolters would have been better than Rice, I guess McCallum is now the guy we should have gotten at #38 (in fact he went #36 -- but lets assume we could have -- and according to you *should have* -- gotten #36 for #38 and #54).

And Will Barton was 100% your pick at #32 in the 2012 draft.

So, if Olynyk doesn't turn out as well as Porter, and McCallam isn't better than Wolters, and Barton doesn't become a really good player -- then you will admit to being wrong on all three of those picks, will you?

I can't remember now whether you were a strong supporter of Beal or whether you had another guy in mind for us at #3 in 2012. Probably Beal if available and MK-G if Beal had gone #2?? Nothing wrong w/ that.

I wasn't here in 2011, but you've said it so many times that I think you were unambiguously on the record to pick Faried #6 -- is that right? How about at #18; who'd you have there? What about at #34? Not in hindsight of course -- who did you say then to pick -- one guy at each spot? (Since I wasn't on this board at the time, for the record, I had Leonard @6, Faried @18, and Parsons @34 and yes I expressed those on the net).

Most of the time I find myself agreeing w/ you, and for sure you've pointed to some guys I didn't have on my radar. And of course, we both can see what a useless GM Ernie is. But "I know I have a gift for this??" And people who think you might blowing a little too hard into your own balloon have "small minds?"

Probably the one worst quality a GM can have is "I know I have a gift for this", and Ernie has it in spades! Arrogance is the biggest blinder there is (and I write that from experience! ).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I was here in 2001. I said a lot in the 10 years you weren't.

You're entitled to your opinion, pif.

[doclinkin]

I was here in 2001. I said a lot in the 10 years you weren't.

You're entitled to your opinion, pif.

Pif can be smug and sassy because the archives of the Washington Wizards blog have been buried (which is what brings him here) but ooh, I had a few gotchas planned. All I can find are blog comments on a stat-head site that make us both look bad since he supported me in what has proven to be a wrongheaded stance Grr hate it when those bastids are right.

[montestewart]

I was here in 2001. I said a lot in the 10 years you weren't.

You're entitled to your opinion, pif.

If I remember, you had Leonard and Faried. Can't remember what you had at the 2nd. I had Shumpert falling to the Wizards, anyone but Vesely, and a trade down that got Biyombo. What do I know?

I've been here long enough to see you get a few wrong, but enough right (ones that are to me out of left field) that I read your recommendations closely, even if it sometimes seems like you recommend more can't miss prospects than there are total draft slots.

I do think you have a knack for this. You've earned the right to brag a little, as has Dat2U, as has PIF, as have a few others. Occasional spectacular misses just keep it interesting.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

hands, I think you're just like everyone else who hates on my picks.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1425

This is what I said June 25th, before the draft:

[quote]I think drafting Porter is NOT the best move.

Draft Olynyk and Karasev instead.

Karasev will exceed all expectations. He might be better than Porter. Karasev won't disrupt continuity by running off Webster or contract year Ariza, because Karasev won't start immediately.

Olynyk is by FAR the most efficient post scorer. He will be a playoff scorer who brings Brad Miller/Luis Scola skill. Forget about athleticism--dude puts the ball in the basket!

In round 2 pick Wolters, Canaan, McCallum (I have a very good feeling that he's massively underrated, like Karasev) or Siva.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1470

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him third.[/quote]

>Porter fit best with Wittman's system and style of play and he filled a need.

>I don't know what the expectations are concerning Karasev. Karasev is supposed to be a good shooter, I know that much, but isn't the knock on him that he isn't a good defender? By that I mean he doesn't understand defensive fundamentals much like Shabazz Muhammad. The one time I saw him he didn't look spectacular, he was just another guy on the court and his three point shot was not deadly. Porter will be the better overall player.

Olynyk was one of six players that I didn't mind the Wizards taking at three:

Bennett
Oladipo
Porter
Zeller
Noel


And I believed Olynyk to be the best C prospect slated to be selected in the lottery...

[hands11]

Point is, I think several of us think we have a real talent at this. We also bust as well.

Example. Right now I have T Rob and Wesley Johnson hanging around my neck. I thought both would be way better. Still not giving up on them though. I also liked Marshon Brooks as a bench SG that might become something bigger. Still waiting. So I have some cleaning on on isle 5 that I am waiting on.

hands: First time ever I've seen you admit to being wrong on anything, and I applaud you for it. Nice to see.

Did I admit I was wrong ?

Hey, I can't help it if I am not presented with a lot of opportunities to do it.

I need to add Markeff Morris to that list. Not sure I was ever totally sold on him but he was in the list of options along the way in trade down scenarios not knowing how it would play out. Nikola, T Harris with down stream picks of M Brooks and J Harper.

Down the stretch, I'm pretty sure I was all Nikola but a PF Markeff wouldn't have upset me either. WE needed a rebounder who could also score/shoot.

I wanted Beal all the way, but I felt T Robinson would be a solid pick.

Thing is with these drafts, only a few get it done right away. It really takes at least 3-4 year to really tell how good a draft it was. Specially for players that land in bad spots or who aren't given good opportunities.

I think my view of that draft was.

Kyrie - Great right away. Was even willing to trade with CLE and pick up a pick. Remember, Kyrie was a risk because of injury and Wall had a solid rookie year.

D Williams - to sure of himself in a way that bothered me. What position. Not worth it.
Kanter - sure. He even wanted to be a Wizards. But not giving up what it would take to get him.
Tristan - don't remember knowing much about him other then he was a little raw.
Jonas Valanciunas - project overseas player. Wasn't interested
Jan Vesely - project overseas player. Wasn't interested
Bismack Biyombo - to long a project without enough skill. nope.
Brandon Knight - uneducated about him. not what we needed anyway PG
Kemba Walker - saw him play and liked him. but wrong position for us. But liked him PG/SG
Jimmer Fredette - fun college player to watch but hell no for the NBA. Felt he would go way to high.
Klay Thompson - good shooter. no defense. seemed soft. nope. I wanted a big anyway with the first.
Alec Burks - don't recall researching him much.
Markieff Morris - was interested. Choice him over Marcus for the Wizards. Better rebounder.
Kawhi Leonard - huge hands. Nice kid. project. I wanted a big more than a SF
Nikola Vucevic - BINGO. This was the kid to draft. Big. Skills. Great work ethic. Already eating and training right.

Liked T Harris, but again, not interested in a SF. After a big, I wanted a SG to replace Nick and a bench long ball shooter.

M Brooks and J Harper. I felt maybe J Tyler would be worth a project 3 year pick.

[hands11]

hands, I think you're just like everyone else who hates on my picks.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1425

This is what I said June 25th, before the draft:

[quote]I think drafting Porter is NOT the best move.

Draft Olynyk and Karasev instead.

Karasev will exceed all expectations. He might be better than Porter. Karasev won't disrupt continuity by running off Webster or contract year Ariza, because Karasev won't start immediately.

Olynyk is by FAR the most efficient post scorer. He will be a playoff scorer who brings Brad Miller/Luis Scola skill. Forget about athleticism--dude puts the ball in the basket!

In round 2 pick Wolters, Canaan, McCallum (I have a very good feeling that he's massively underrated, like Karasev) or Siva.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1470

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him third.

>Porter fit best with Wittman's system and style of play and he filled a need.

>I don't know what the expectations are concerning Karasev. Karasev is supposed to be a good shooter, I know that much, but isn't the knock on him that he isn't a good defender? By that I mean he doesn't understand defensive fundamentals much like Shabazz Muhammad. The one time I saw him he didn't look spectacular, he was just another guy on the court and his three point shot was not deadly. Porter will be the better overall player.

Olynyk was one of six players that I didn't mind the Wizards taking at three:

Bennett
Oladipo
Porter
Zeller
Noel


And I believed Olynyk to be the best C prospect slated to be selected in the lottery...[/quote]

I would go easy on beating your chest about KO just yet. Doing good in SL is a good start. But there is a lot more to prove then that.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

hands, I think you're just like everyone else who hates on my picks.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1425

This is what I said June 25th, before the draft:

[quote]I think drafting Porter is NOT the best move.

Draft Olynyk and Karasev instead.

Karasev will exceed all expectations. He might be better than Porter. Karasev won't disrupt continuity by running off Webster or contract year Ariza, because Karasev won't start immediately.

Olynyk is by FAR the most efficient post scorer. He will be a playoff scorer who brings Brad Miller/Luis Scola skill. Forget about athleticism--dude puts the ball in the basket!

In round 2 pick Wolters, Canaan, McCallum (I have a very good feeling that he's massively underrated, like Karasev) or Siva.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1255857&start=1470

Ruzious, Fazekas is a very good player who got caught in a numbers game. I think you or others mention him as a bust to say Olynyk will similarly not make it. I still like Fazekas.

I think Olynyk is a better player and is even a good pick at 3. He will get a guaranteed roster spot and it all depends on opportunity from there.

hands, it shouldn't anger me at all what you posted. I understand small minds and hate because I guess I have my ways on some things, too. Frankly, I don't care what you think because I know I have a gift for this. Find one other person who said draft him third.

>Porter fit best with Wittman's system and style of play and he filled a need.

>I don't know what the expectations are concerning Karasev. Karasev is supposed to be a good shooter, I know that much, but isn't the knock on him that he isn't a good defender? By that I mean he doesn't understand defensive fundamentals much like Shabazz Muhammad. The one time I saw him he didn't look spectacular, he was just another guy on the court and his three point shot was not deadly. Porter will be the better overall player.

Olynyk was one of six players that I didn't mind the Wizards taking at three:

Bennett
Oladipo
Porter
Zeller
Noel


And I believed Olynyk to be the best C prospect slated to be selected in the lottery...

I would go easy on beating your chest about KO just yet. Doing good in SL is a good start. But there is a lot more to prove then that.[/quote]

Not beating my chest about Olynyk, I do believe what he did in college will translate. I'm happy with Porter as a Wizard, just pointing out that there were a number of players that I wouldn't have minded the Wizards taking if passing on Porter--- Olynyk was one of them (preferably after trading down). Any of the guys listed I felt would help the Wizards out. McDermott and Muhammad were others. I became iffy on Muhammad because of uncertainty of where his head was at, McDermott of course returned to school.

[payitforward]

I was here in 2001. I said a lot in the 10 years you weren't.

You're entitled to your opinion, pif.

Pif can be smug and sassy because the archives of the Washington Wizards blog have been buried (which is what brings him here) but ooh, I had a few gotchas planned. All I can find are blog comments on a stat-head site that make us both look bad since he supported me in what has proven to be a wrongheaded stance Grr hate it when those bastids are right.

Well, doc, *of course* I've been wrong -- many times! And I've also said so over and over. For example, I thought Seraphin was a terrific pick. He hasn't turned out to be much of a player, and I was wrong.

I've also written the following words about a zillion times -- "you can't be right if you're not willing to be wrong."

As to your comment, CCJ -- I didn't state my "opinion." I said that I agree w/ you quite often and that you often point me to players not on my radar.

I appreciate your comments almost all the time. When you get into the "everybody's hating on me" and "I have a gift for this" -- that's about the only time I can't get on your wavelength.

Maybe you'd be a good scout -- actually, I'm sure you would be! And, since you have the passion, I wish you were one. But anyone who's conceited about his "gift" of picking players would be a bad GM. We have a guy like that, in fact, somebody who knows better all the time.

Myself, I don't have a gift. I just have the numbers and a pretty good head for math. I always thought Danny Green would be a good NBA player because the numbers told me he would be -- and there was nothing that told me he wouldn't be. I thought Lance Stephenson *might* be, because the numbers told me he would be but his life issues made me think he might not be.

No crystal ball, no magic formula, no "gift." When I'm right, it's because the numbers are right. Because they usually are right, I have a shot to be right a lot too.

[Ruzious]

Who knew Ian Clark would be a supastar?

<standing back as 5 posters rush to say they called it>

I have no idea who he is - other than he scored 33 points in the HUGE Summer League Champyunship Game.

[Zonkerbl]

It's confusing because there's no benchmark. If ccj throws out twenty names and hits on ten of them, is that good or bad?

I think I did some sort of statistical thing, or Kev did, or somebody, that shows that about 6% of second rounders have a "successful NBA career" (however defined). Hitting on 50% of your list of 20 would then be a FANTASTIC record.

I think ccj is good at this. I'd hire him.

[closg00]

Who knew Ian Clark would be a supastar?

<standing back as 5 posters rush to say they called it>

I have no idea who he is - other than he scored 33 points in the HUGE Summer League Champyunship Game.

Undrafted and has no contract...yet. You can always pick-up undrafted SG's and PG's, sometimes good ones. These guys often go to Europe, the NBDL, then end-up on a SL team. Ujiri got a nice nab.

[pancakes3]

Chris Singleton, 0-5 from 3, 20-22 from the FT line. What to make of it!?!?!

[closg00]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1713 ... mer-league