Is Nene the next trouble in the locker room?

[Jay81]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

i disagree. Beal is better than Patty Mills:)

[Ruzious]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

He probably means more athuhletical.

[AFM]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

Well yes, we don't have Duncan or Parker. But I think the point he's trying to make is how great the Spurs are at taking players who wouldn't get burn elsewhere and exploit their best attributes. It's due to their beautiful system of basketball. Does anyone else think Matt Bonner would be a good fit on this team? Only on the Spurs with their beautiful ball movement.
You can't tell me Matt Bonner (or name some other Spurs bench player) is better than Webster individually, but in the context of the Spurs' system it sure seems like it.

[McGully Culkin]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

Nene undercut his point when he put up a statline of 4/2 in 25 minutes.

I'm sick of the guy. He's as soft as some baby poo, overpaid, and under performs. It sucks that we're stuck with him for the better part of the next 3 seasons. I HOPE he's the one that's moved out.

[Hypnotizer]

You can't tell me Matt Bonner (or name some other Spurs bench player) is better than Webster individually, but in the context of the Spurs' system it sure seems like it.

What about Manu?

[AFM]

At this point I'm not sure. I don't watch too much Spurs basketball but he looked over the hill in the playoffs. He's 36.

[Nivek]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

Well yes, we don't have Duncan or Parker. But I think the point he's trying to make is how great the Spurs are at taking players who wouldn't get burn elsewhere and exploit their best attributes. It's due to their beautiful system of basketball. Does anyone else think Matt Bonner would be a good fit on this team? Only on the Spurs with their beautiful ball movement.
You can't tell me Matt Bonner (or name some other Spurs bench player) is better than Webster individually, but in the context of the Spurs' system it sure seems like it.

This is like saying that TV in the 80s was way better than today and then comparing Cheers to Keeping Up With the Kardashians. Matt Bonner is 12th on the Spurs in minutes -- Webster is 5th with the Wizards.

Here's the thing about the Spurs on-court system -- EVERYONE knows exactly what they're going to do. They come up with wrinkles here and there, but the reason for their success is NOT their on-court system, but their system to identify good players, many of whom were overlooked by other teams.

Danny Green is often cited as a "magic of the Spurs system" guy, but I think he was just fundamentally underrated coming out of college. In my stat-driven rating system, his rating was consistent with a high lottery pick in most drafts (meaning around 5th). If he'd been in the 2013 draft, I'd have had him tied for 3rd overall with Noel.

What really separates the Spurs from other teams is their ability to identify good players. I'm not discounting what Popovich and his staff are able to do with the guys they get, but their system works because they get good players.

[nate33]

By singling out the "young guys", it seems like he is really talking about Wall and Beal. Certainly, Webster, Ariza, Gortat and Harrington don't fall under that category. Seraphin didn't play. And Vesely, for all his faults, can hardly be considered a selfish stat whore. I suppose, he could be talking about the last several games, which would include Singleton.

I think the criticism of Beal is misplaced. Beal was awful in his first 2 games, and turnover prone in his 3rd, but in the 5 games since then, he has been either our best scorer or one of our best distributors. He had two awesome games where he scored 29 and 34 respectively on great shooting. He had two relatively poor-shooting nights (7/20 and 2/10) during which he managed to tabulate 8 and 7 assists respectively. And last night against the Spurs, he was a respectable 9 of 19 from the floor on a night when no one other than Webster could score.

Wall has had a rough start shooting wise, but his assists are up and his turnovers are down from last year, so he's headed in the right direction too. Wall probably does deserve a bit more criticism for the number of midrange jumpers he takes given his efficiency - particularly against San Antonio.

[go'stags]

Wall played 10x harder than anyone else on the team the past 2 games. Once he starts hitting his shots, and I think he will, it won't be an issue. 8 games in, a couple of which he hasn't even played, and Nene is talking about the young guys. Unbelievable.

The tank is going perfectly.

[tontoz]

I think Beal is definitely taking too many long, contested 2 point jumpers. I would much rather see him take it to the basket or drive/dish than taking a long 2 with a hand in his face.

Wall is the bigger culprit though. I can't stand seeing him pullup for a long 2 in transition. I have no problem with him taking catch and shot 3s but all those long 2s, especially early in the clock, need to stop.

[nate33]

Here's the thing about the Spurs on-court system -- EVERYONE knows exactly what they're going to do. They come up with wrinkles here and there, but the reason for their success is NOT their on-court system, but their system to identify good players, many of whom were overlooked by other teams.

I think the key is in your first sentence. Everyone has a specific role, plays that specific role perfectly, and never tries to do anything outside of their role. But talentwise, the team has three very good, versatile, all-around talents in Parker, Ginobili and Duncan and they are the engine that makes the team run. The beauty of their system is that they have those players do all of the creative decision making, leaving the rest of the team to stick with their simplified roles. The role players come and go and it doesn't matter much. The machine keeps chugging along.

I think that's what Nene is getting at when he says that the Spurs aren't as talented. He's really talking about the role players. Parker, Manu and Duncan are better than Wall, Beal and Nene, but frankly not all that much better given their advanced age. Certainly that talent difference shouldn't be, by itself, the difference between a 58-win team and a 29-win team. And after the Big Three, you can make a case that Gortat, Ariza, Webster are better than Splitter, Leonard and Green from a talent standpoint. With that the case, the Spurs shouldn't be THAT much better than the Wizards. The difference is that they know how to play as a team and Popovich puts the players in a position to succeed.

[FAH1223]

Nene wants to be a Spur.

[deneem4]

Nene doesn't want to be on the wizards he said it last yr...

He shouldve been traded for some younger bigs talented or not...he's our problem...how do expect to have an effective pg when theres no effective post option...every elite guard in the league has a post option...

Seraphin is our best post player but somehow nene gets tht role and title...

It sickens me we traded away our best player we had in yrs and a draft pick...for a short term solution to nenes problem (not wanting to play center) maybe nene should be worried more about stats and he wouldn't get out played by vesely

[AFM]

Seraphin is our best post player but somehow nene gets tht role and title...

U wot m8?

[nate33]

I think Beal is definitely taking too many long, contested 2 point jumpers. I would much rather see him take it to the basket or drive/dish than taking a long 2 with a hand in his face.

It sounds like he took more than his fair share of long 2's in the San Antonio game (I didn't see it), but I disagree with this assertion based on what I've seen over the rest of the season. According to basketball reference, 33% of Beal's shot attempts are from 3-point range.

It's also notable that San Antonio, being a very smart team, is focused on chasing players off the 3-point line and ceding the long 2.

[Upper Decker]

Wall played 10x harder than anyone else on the team the past 2 games. Once he starts hitting his shots, and I think he will, it won't be an issue. 8 games in, a couple of which he hasn't even played, and Nene is talking about the young guys. Unbelievable.

The tank is going perfectly.

Games like last night really show the warts in Walls game. In my book Parker is the best PG in the game. He consistently dominates Paul, who is the PG darling of the NBA. Wall's not even in the same planet as Parker. It's games like last night that make it so clear Wall and Beal aren't really going anywhere until the GM's gone and a new coach is brought in. I'd actually like Wall and Beal to be traded to SAS so they can learn how to play the right way. I'm so jealous of what the Spurs have.

[Nivek]

Here's the thing about the Spurs on-court system -- EVERYONE knows exactly what they're going to do. They come up with wrinkles here and there, but the reason for their success is NOT their on-court system, but their system to identify good players, many of whom were overlooked by other teams.

I think the key is in your first sentence. Everyone has a specific role, plays that specific role perfectly, and never tries to do anything outside of their role. But talentwise, the team has three very good, versatile, all-around talents in Parker, Ginobili and Duncan and they are the engine that makes the team run. The beauty of their system is that they have those players do all of the creative decision making, leaving the rest of the team to stick with their simplified roles. The role players come and go and it doesn't matter much. The machine keeps chugging along.

When I said "everyone," I meant other teams. There are no secrets in the NBA, no tricks. Talk to players and coaches about Xs and Os, and (unless you're talking to guys like Blatche or Nick Young) they all know what everyone's doing.

I think that's what Nene is getting at when he says that the Spurs aren't as talented. He's really talking about the role players. Parker, Manu and Duncan are better than Wall, Beal and Nene, but frankly not all that much better given their advanced age. Certainly that talent difference shouldn't be, by itself, the difference between a 58-win team and a 29-win team. And after the Big Three, you can make a case that Gortat, Ariza, Webster are better than Splitter, Leonard and Green from a talent standpoint. With that the case, the Spurs shouldn't be THAT much better than the Wizards. The difference is that they know how to play as a team and Popovich puts the players in a position to succeed.

Don't agree with much of anything here except the part about Popovich putting players in a position to succeed.

Unless, of course, we're using the word "talent" to mean different things. If we're talking run and jump athletics, then yeah the Wizards are the more athletic team. But, if we're talking about basketball talent -- skills, knowledge, production -- then no. Not close. I'm reminded of the Lamar Odom quote about Javale McGee -- the game is basketball, not run and jump.

[tontoz]

I think Beal is definitely taking too many long, contested 2 point jumpers. I would much rather see him take it to the basket or drive/dish than taking a long 2 with a hand in his face.

It sounds like he took more than his fair share of long 2's in the San Antonio game (I didn't see it), but I disagree with this assertion based on what I've seen over the rest of the season. According to basketball reference, 33% of Beal's shot attempts are from 3-point range.

It's also notable that San Antonio, being a very smart team, is focused on chasing players off the 3-point line and ceding the long 2.

According to NBA.com's shot chart he is still taking more long 2s than 3s. When he gets run off the 3 point line he tends to settle for long 2s too quickly. He has 53 long 2s compared to 30 shots at the rim.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=203078

[FAH1223]

Here's the thing about the Spurs on-court system -- EVERYONE knows exactly what they're going to do. They come up with wrinkles here and there, but the reason for their success is NOT their on-court system, but their system to identify good players, many of whom were overlooked by other teams.

I think the key is in your first sentence. Everyone has a specific role, plays that specific role perfectly, and never tries to do anything outside of their role. But talentwise, the team has three very good, versatile, all-around talents in Parker, Ginobili and Duncan and they are the engine that makes the team run. The beauty of their system is that they have those players do all of the creative decision making, leaving the rest of the team to stick with their simplified roles. The role players come and go and it doesn't matter much. The machine keeps chugging along.

I think that's what Nene is getting at when he says that the Spurs aren't as talented. He's really talking about the role players. Parker, Manu and Duncan are better than Wall, Beal and Nene, but frankly not all that much better given their advanced age. Certainly that talent difference shouldn't be, by itself, the difference between a 58-win team and a 29-win team. And after the Big Three, you can make a case that Gortat, Ariza, Webster are better than Splitter, Leonard and Green from a talent standpoint. With that the case, the Spurs shouldn't be THAT much better than the Wizards. The difference is that they know how to play as a team and Popovich puts the players in a position to succeed.

I disagree. Ginobili can be a turnover machine and he's lost his atheliticism that bailed him out before but collectively him, Timmy and Parker are better than our best three players. Sure Wall and Beal are more athletic, young, can get better... but Parker has been playing at an MVP level for that team the last couple years and is only 31 and seemingly always getting better. Duncan is still fantastic defensively and should get consideration for DPOY barring injury and his offense will come around eventually. They're just so skilled and knowledgable, it puts to shame just about every other team in the NBA outside a handful.

I think SA only had like 2 alley oops last year.

[nate33]

Don't agree with much of anything here except the part about Popovich putting players in a position to succeed.

Unless, of course, we're using the word "talent" to mean different things. If we're talking run and jump athletics, then yeah the Wizards are the more athletic team. But, if we're talking about basketball talent -- skills, knowledge, production -- then no. Not close. I'm reminded of the Lamar Odom quote about Javale McGee -- the game is basketball, not run and jump.

I don't mean just run and jump. I mean things like individual defense. Shooting ability. Shot creation ability. Rebounding ability. I'd put Gortat over Splitter in just about all of those categories. Webster and Green are a wash. Ariza and Leonard are a wash. The difference is in the Spurs players' decision making and in the roles they are asked to play. If you want to call those aspects "talent", that's fine. Obviously, if you consider "talent" to be synonymous with "production", then this entire discussion is pointless. My argument (and Nene's) is that team production is based on the proper harnessing and implementation of the innate talent of the players. The Spurs do that better than the Wizards.

If Popovich was picking a team from scratch and he already had Duncan, Ginobili and Parker, and in the talent pool to pick from he could choose between Splitter and Gortat, I think he would take Gortat. I think the Ariza/Leonard choice is much closer, as is the Green/Webster choice, but there isn't a whole lot of distinction there. Give Popovich and that Spurs system Gortat, Ariza and Webster in place of Splitter, Leonard and Green, and give them an offseason and a training camp, and I don't think the Spurs miss a beat. They might even be a bit better.