Just tank already.

[Upper Decker]

Yeah Tank and wait 4 years for them to be an elite top 3 team

Here's a better idea; resign Trevor Ariza, Gortat, have no draft picks, and have the team try their very hardest to make the playoffs to get swept in the first round for the next 4 years!

[Dark Faze]

man I'd hate for Wall to miss the all-star game due to our record :/

[Dat2U]

man I'd hate for Wall to miss the all-star game due to our record :/

Actually I think it would be great. I'd love him to have even a bigger chip on his shoulder. IMO he's not even the best point guard in the East. Kyle Lowry is and it's not even close. Wall has been too inconsistent IMO to be upset if he doesn't get picked. Even George Hill has been more consistent, more reliable and a better defender than Wall has.

[AFM]

George Hill?






George Hill?






















George Hill?

The one averaging 10 and 3 w/ a PER of 13?
Yeah, he's been consistently much worse than Wall.

[Dat2U]

George Hill?

The one averaging 10 and 3 w/ a PER of 13?
Yeah, he's been consistently much worse than Wall.

Yep, he excels at his role. No I don't think he's better than Wall, but he's outperformed Wall on a consistent basis this year. Good efficiency, low TOs, excellent defense. You won't see Hill go 5-17 too often from the floor. Or have 6 TOs.

[Illmatic21]

George Hill?

The one averaging 10 and 3 w/ a PER of 13?
Yeah, he's been consistently much worse than Wall.

Yep, he excels at his role. No I don't think he's better than Wall, but he's outperformed Wall on a consistent basis this year. Good efficiency, low TOs, excellent defense. You won't see Hill go 5-17 too often from the floor. Or have 6 TOs.

Hill is shooting 41% from the field. He is terrible, and clearly the weak link on that team.

Indiana knows it more than anyone, they'd drop George Hill for a player half as good as Wall in a second.

[Nivek]

George Hill?

The one averaging 10 and 3 w/ a PER of 13?
Yeah, he's been consistently much worse than Wall.

Yep, he excels at his role. No I don't think he's better than Wall, but he's outperformed Wall on a consistent basis this year. Good efficiency, low TOs, excellent defense. You won't see Hill go 5-17 too often from the floor. Or have 6 TOs.

Hill is shooting 41% from the field. He is terrible, and clearly the weak link on that team.

Indiana knows it more than anyone, they'd drop George Hill for a player half as good as Wall in a second.

I remain puzzled why folks continue using FG% when there are better measures. FG% has been outdated since the NBA introduced the 3pt shot. In 1979.

45% of Hill's FGA this season have been 3pt attempts. He shoots a respectable 38.5% from 3pt range, which raises his effective field goal percentage (efg) to .503, which is better than league average (.495) this season.

And, Hill is not "terrible." He's actually pretty good -- he shoots well, commits few turnovers, and plays excellent defense. That said, Wall is more productive this season. The Pacers would likely prefer to have Wall than Hill, but I also think they'd want Wall to shoot a lot less and to play better defense.

[Upper Decker]

Yep, he excels at his role. No I don't think he's better than Wall, but he's outperformed Wall on a consistent basis this year. Good efficiency, low TOs, excellent defense. You won't see Hill go 5-17 too often from the floor. Or have 6 TOs.

Hill is shooting 41% from the field. He is terrible, and clearly the weak link on that team.

Indiana knows it more than anyone, they'd drop George Hill for a player half as good as Wall in a second.

I remain puzzled why folks continue using FG% when there are better measures. FG% has been outdated since the NBA introduced the 3pt shot. In 1979.

45% of Hill's FGA this season have been 3pt attempts. He shoots a respectable 38.5% from 3pt range, which raises his effective field goal percentage (efg) to .503, which is better than league average (.495) this season.

And, Hill is not "terrible." He's actually pretty good -- he shoots well, commits few turnovers, and plays excellent defense. That said, Wall is more productive this season. The Pacers would likely prefer to have Wall than Hill, but I also think they'd want Wall to shoot a lot less and to play better defense.

Wall's FGA's would be cut in half if he played with Hibbert, West, George, and Stephenson. Wall would average 12+ APG. Part of the reason Wall shoots terrible percetages is because when the clock get's low he knows there's not another player on this roster who can create their own shot--save for Nene, but seemingly whenever Nene tries to create lately it's a turnover / fast break. Wall's not a good shooter, I'll grant you that, but based on the players on the roster, he HAS to take some bad shots.

[Nivek]

Part of the reason Wall shoots terrible percetages is because when the clock get's low he knows there's not another player on this roster who can create their own shot--save for Nene, but seemingly whenever Nene tries to create lately it's a turnover / fast break. Wall's not a good shooter, I'll grant you that, but based on the players on the roster, he HAS to take some bad shots.

According to 82games, 13% of Wall's FGA this season have come in the last 3 seconds of the shot clock. The Wizards' team average is 12%. Wall's efg is .377 on those attempts, which is bad, but...he's shooting .387 on FGA with 11-15 seconds elapsed from the shot clock. And those "middle of the shot clock" attempts represent 23% of his FGA.

The Wizards "late in the shot clock" attempts are evenly distributed -- for the main rotation guys, those late attempts comprise roughly 11-14% of their FGA. Most of them shoot better on those attempts than Wall, including Nene, Gortat, Ariza, Webster and Beal.

On a quick, non-scientific glance at other PGs around the league, it doesn't look like Wall has an unusually large number of late in the shot clock FGA. He does seem to shoot worse on those attempts, however.

[Illmatic21]

Yep, he excels at his role. No I don't think he's better than Wall, but he's outperformed Wall on a consistent basis this year. Good efficiency, low TOs, excellent defense. You won't see Hill go 5-17 too often from the floor. Or have 6 TOs.

Hill is shooting 41% from the field. He is terrible, and clearly the weak link on that team.

Indiana knows it more than anyone, they'd drop George Hill for a player half as good as Wall in a second.

I remain puzzled why folks continue using FG% when there are better measures. FG% has been outdated since the NBA introduced the 3pt shot. In 1979.

45% of Hill's FGA this season have been 3pt attempts. He shoots a respectable 38.5% from 3pt range, which raises his effective field goal percentage (efg) to .503, which is better than league average (.495) this season.

And, Hill is not "terrible." He's actually pretty good -- he shoots well, commits few turnovers, and plays excellent defense. That said, Wall is more productive this season. The Pacers would likely prefer to have Wall than Hill, but I also think they'd want Wall to shoot a lot less and to play better defense.

Hill's numbers might not look that bad, but he has notably struggled in big games. He's not a big game player.

The Pacers have tried to get him to be more of a leader and take on a bigger role, but he's been hesitant and passive. Just my opinion, but I think he is the clear weak link on that team. He doesn't really have the demeanor or leadership that you want from a championship point guard.

Hill is one of the better defensive point guards (of course, with Roy Hibbert and Paul George roaming behind him).. I'll give him that.

[tontoz]

I think CCJ hacked Dat's account.

[jivelikenice]

I've always been anti-tank. I think it has lead to where we are now. A team with players who don't know how to win, have bad habits, and have low bball IQ. That being said, I would immediately shop Ariza, Gortat, all of Ernie's kids who are expiring, and obviously Maynor and would see what I can get. I don't know if that's tanking though because I think the team would probably improve just by balancing out the roster. Change the coach, and see what he could do with the remaining roster. If they make the playoffs - great, if they don't then at least a new coach can evaluarte what's needed before we go shopping in FA and the draft (since we'd likely retain our pick then).

[tontoz]

I've always been anti-tank. I think it has lead to where we are now. A team with players who don't know how to win, have bad habits, and have low bball IQ. That being said, I would immediately shop Ariza, Gortat, all of Ernie's kids who are expiring, and obviously Maynor and would see what I can get. I don't know if that's tanking though because I think the team would probably improve just by balancing out the roster. Change the coach, and see what he could do with the remaining roster. If they make the playoffs - great, if they don't then at least a new coach can evaluarte what's needed before we go shopping in FA and the draft (since we'd likely retain our pick then).

Poor draft picks and a series of short sighted win now trades led to where we are now. And trading Ariza/Gortat would definitely be tanking since they are two of the few legit NBA players on the team.

[keynote]

Postseason experience is overrated, IMHO. Getting a taste of the postseason didn't magically get Gilbert to mature, Antwan to play better D, or Caron to improve his efficiency. A first-round sweep didn't cure Chris of his lead foot or his love of the herb, didn't add 6" of reach to Calbert's stubby arms or 3 feet of range to his jumper, and didn't get Rod to improve his diet and start taking care of his body.

We don't need playoff experience. We need talented, driven stars; hard-working, skilled role players; and an environment that nurtures both groups to their maximum potential. I'm not sure whether we have the first, but we definitely don't have the second or third.

The one thing playoff experience *does* provide us is that it starts to remove the stink of failure from the franchise -- thereby making it a more attractive FA/trade destination than before. But that's about it.

[Dat2U]

I think CCJ hacked Dat's account.

LOL. There's no question Wall is the better player or that I'd much rather have him than Hill, just pointing out the painful truth. Hill is outperforming Wall over the course of the season. Hill contributes to winning basketball and rarely hurts his team. I'm sure Indy would take Wall over Hill any day of the week but I'd suspect he'd struggle mightly in Hill's role as Hill would in Wall's role.

All this to say, I'm cool with Wall NOT being an all-star. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn't. I think he's been the 3rd best guard in the East.... But anything that gives him added motivation and helps him understand he still has a long way to go, then great, because I'm all for it.

[Hidden Eye]

Yeah Tank and wait 4 years for them to be an elite top 3 team

Here's a better idea; resign Trevor Ariza, Gortat, have no draft picks, and have the team try their very hardest to make the playoffs to get swept in the first round for the next 4 years!

They will never get out of the first round if Wittman is still coaching this team.

[jivelikenice]

I've always been anti-tank. I think it has lead to where we are now. A team with players who don't know how to win, have bad habits, and have low bball IQ. That being said, I would immediately shop Ariza, Gortat, all of Ernie's kids who are expiring, and obviously Maynor and would see what I can get. I don't know if that's tanking though because I think the team would probably improve just by balancing out the roster. Change the coach, and see what he could do with the remaining roster. If they make the playoffs - great, if they don't then at least a new coach can evaluarte what's needed before we go shopping in FA and the draft (since we'd likely retain our pick then).

Poor draft picks and a series of short sighted win now trades led to where we are now. And trading Ariza/Gortat would definitely be tanking since they are two of the few legit NBA players on the team.

Part of it, but part is that you had a coach with no winning experience trying to coach up inexperienced players with no winning experience. That culture also leads to guys playing outside of their role (I.e. Crawford) because they don't want to accept their ideal role and are all competing with each other.

I do agree that trading Gortat w/o a replacement is tanking but I don't agree about Ariza because I think Martell's production would go up significantly in a starting role. Im guessing Martell plus what you'd get for Ariza > Trevor backed up by Martell.

[tontoz]

Part of it, but part is that you had a coach with no winning experience trying to coach up inexperienced players with no winning experience. That culture also leads to guys playing outside of their role (I.e. Crawford) because they don't want to accept their ideal role and are all competing with each other.

I do agree that trading Gortat w/o a replacement is tanking but I don't agree about Ariza because I think Martell's production would go up significantly in a starting role. Im guessing Martell plus what you'd get for Ariza > Trevor backed up by Martell.

Ariza is an expirer. If they are lucky they can get a first round pick for him. It is unlikely that they can get a player as productive as Ariza has been.

And Martell has been backing up the 2 a lot. That will stop if Ariza is traded. We will be seeing more of Rice and Porter.

[jivelikenice]

You could probably do better than a first if you take on someone with a few years left on a their contract. But then you have to decide if you want Ernie making a deal that affects future cap space...and the answer is no.

What contenders are in need for a SF?

[hands11]

Postseason experience is overrated, IMHO. Getting a taste of the postseason didn't magically get Gilbert to mature, Antwan to play better D, or Caron to improve his efficiency. A first-round sweep didn't cure Chris of his lead foot or his love of the herb, didn't add 6" of reach to Calbert's stubby arms or 3 feet of range to his jumper, and didn't get Rod to improve his diet and start taking care of his body.

We don't need playoff experience. We need talented, driven stars; hard-working, skilled role players; and an environment that nurtures both groups to their maximum potential. I'm not sure whether we have the first, but we definitely don't have the second or third.

The one thing playoff experience *does* provide us is that it starts to remove the stink of failure from the franchise -- thereby making it a more attractive FA/trade destination than before. But that's about it.

AJ already had playoff experience. And nothing was going to get him to play good D.
And nothing was going to get Gil to mature.

Wall and Beal are totally different stories. They need playoff experience. And we need to keep adding talent. Players. Coaches. Front office.