Political Roundtable Part XXII

[stilldropin20]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Again the payouts to the women count as an undisclosed campaign donation given the timing of the transfer of funds. The same thing that forced John Edwards to resign back in the 2007-08 Democratic Primary. Of course I imagine that Edwards lost a lot more of his base than Trump.

That being said, it looks as if Cohen has a lot more evidence to use against Trump especially since he was in those meetings in the lead up to the Trump tower meetings with the Russians. Apparently now Cohen is not willing to take a presidential pardon.

obama paid over 345,000 and fines and fees as well as the "illegal campaign contribution" in 2008. Many many many many other politicians have similar paperwork issues. They pay a fine and everyone moves on. Kennedy was unsuccessfully tried in court of law.<--because he fought the fees and fines instead of paying them. Trump has the money to pay the money he (might) owe.

here's the thing with trump, though. It sounded to me (from the beginning) that trump paid stormy out of a Trump corporate account. Still trumps money..so arguing a campaign contribution to himself is folly. clumsy..but folly nonetheless. and here's the rub...this NDA and therefore law suit started(was a result of things) long before Trump was a candidate. And Trump Inc. and the entire trump umbrella has "something to lose" in terms of hurting the brand as well as personal pain inflicted on family. So paying out of a trump corporate account is reasonable given how much damage the stormy info could have caused the Trump brand. So paying out of the Trump account was nothing more than a PR expense for the corporation. I'm quite sure that was what Trump was thinking. Keep in mind...Trump was pretty "clean" prior to october 2016.

When the payment was made(October 2016) Trump was about to lose the election (and go back to being a business man)!! Come on! no one here thought he would win. He was 10-12 points behind overall 5-8 in battle ground states. That generally means no chance in hell to win. So im not sure anyone in their right mind in late october even thought or could logically argue that the election results could be influenced at the time of the payment. Trump was too far behind. Obama (the sitting US president) certainly did not. Neither clapper, Comey, nor Brennen. Everyone thought trump would lose. and the law is written: "with the purpose of influencing an election." So even if one makes the leap that Trump Inc was paying for Donald Trump the candidate...no one in their right mind would think the election itself would be influenced. A few votes? maybe? but the election from 10-12 points behind? hardly. 538 who gets paid to predict these things and is good at it said no way. as did many other publications. So Trump inc was making a private PR payment on behalf of its sole and private owner.

Worst case? Trump pays a fine.

i mean 2 effin years later and this is all the left has got:

1. "Russia if you are listening" (a tongue in cheek joke)
2. Donald Trump likely paid stormy daniels for an NDA out of (HIS OWN!!!!) corporate account instead of a personal account.

That's it!!! That's all you got!!!!! and we all know you want to impeach off of this because you still have not accepted the results of the 2016 election. Why do you hate outsides so much?

trump ended up winning in an electorate landslide and won states no GOP candidate won since Reagan. The people spoke. Last week a quinimmac poll showed that the majority of americans do not want an impeachment.

so its just not going to happen. Dems will not get the senate. GOP controlled senate wont impeach a president that is this popular among their base. Not happening. and in fact this is going to back fire on Mueller who purposefully slow rolled this entire investigation up until now and is speeding it up here at the end to affect the elections. People like me are as fired up as ever to head to the polls.

Nobody wants Pence, not even the left wing media nor dems on this board.

Also i feel sorry for the next Dem president. They wont survive. almost no candidate nor first term president can survive this. Trump having a very special type of personality to somehow get through this crap.

and wow...Cohen's life is ruined. And manaforte is going to jail for life. ruined. wow! all because they had a prosecutor that was NOT taking a deal. As for Cohen...idiot. i think lanny davis screwed him over royally. manaforte can still get a pardon.

[Wizardspride]

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[TGW]

Jake Tapper's incredible "factcheck" fail on trying to discredit Medicare 4 All is more proof just how stupid, FAKE and intellectually dishonest corporate media is:

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[stilldropin20]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Again the payouts to the women count as an undisclosed campaign donation given the timing of the transfer of funds. The same thing that forced John Edwards to resign back in the 2007-08 Democratic Primary. Of course I imagine that Edwards lost a lot more of his base than Trump.

That being said, it looks as if Cohen has a lot more evidence to use against Trump especially since he was in those meetings in the lead up to the Trump tower meetings with the Russians. Apparently now Cohen is not willing to take a presidential pardon.

Whether or not Levin is reliable, his conclusions sound absurd. Clearly the payments were made FOR THE PURPOSE of affecting the election. That was the prime purpose - unlike the examples he used to try to justify them not being reportable. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to pretend I know 100% for sure that laws were broken, but Levin's logic makes no sense whatsoever.

Nope.

trump was down 10-12 overall and 5-8 in battle ground states necessary to win. No one in their right mind thought the election could be affected. Votes? possibly. But the election? no chance. So the "purpose of the payment" was to protect Trump Inc. and trump the business man. and Trump personally. On November 9th. Trump was suppose to go back to the apprentice and whatever else trump was doing. <--easy argument to make.

Also the payment came from trump himself. Likely his corporate account and to be written off as a PR expense. possibly a legal expense. <--easy argument to make.

furthermore, when Cohen made the payment, it could have been made from an accumulation of retainer that Trump already paid Cohen. <--Likely...and an easy argument to make. When Trump wired more money to Cohen likely from a corporate account trump was merely refueling his retainer accumulation so as to pay for future issues like this that may arise.<--all of which is another easy argument to make. No matter how Cohen feels (or classifies) the reception of these payments or accumulations of retainer fees...it just doesn't matter. What matters is how Trump Inc and Trump defined the payments. Trumps intent. No Cohens. Eg. I can go to mcdonalds and buy $25 worth of big macs. It doesn't matter if the drive through agent throws a dime bag of weed in with my order. Unless i intended to buy the weed. That purchase is further complicated if I have a credit account with macdonalds where I have $50 in credit with macdonalds...buy the food and replenish my credit card at a later date. Did i prepay? when i ordered and received that $25 order? I think so.

That's 3 solid arguments. and I'm conceding the payment came from a corporate account. Which it may not have.

[stilldropin20]

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so he lied the first time....or says he lied. or he is lying now. and he is going back for more? 3rd lie is a charm!!!

[stilldropin20]

wow!!!! interesting take. Impressive

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[Ruzious]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Again the payouts to the women count as an undisclosed campaign donation given the timing of the transfer of funds. The same thing that forced John Edwards to resign back in the 2007-08 Democratic Primary. Of course I imagine that Edwards lost a lot more of his base than Trump.

That being said, it looks as if Cohen has a lot more evidence to use against Trump especially since he was in those meetings in the lead up to the Trump tower meetings with the Russians. Apparently now Cohen is not willing to take a presidential pardon.

Whether or not Levin is reliable, his conclusions sound absurd. Clearly the payments were made FOR THE PURPOSE of affecting the election. That was the prime purpose - unlike the examples he used to try to justify them not being reportable. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to pretend I know 100% for sure that laws were broken, but Levin's logic makes no sense whatsoever.

Nope.

trump was down 10-12 overall and 5-8 in battle ground states necessary to win. No one in their right mind thought the election could be affected. Votes? possibly. But the election? no chance. So the "purpose of the payment" was to protect Trump Inc. and trump the business man. and Trump personally. On November 9th. Trump was suppose to go back to the apprentice and whatever else trump was doing. <--easy argument to make.

Also the payment came from trump himself. Likely his corporate account and to be written off as a PR expense. possibly a legal expense. <--easy argument to make.

furthermore, when Cohen made the payment, it could have been made from an accumulation of retainer that Trump already paid Cohen. <--Likely...and an easy argument to make. When Trump wired more money to Cohen likely from a corporate account trump was merely refueling his retainer accumulation so as to pay for future issues like this that may arise.<--all of which is another easy argument to make. No matter how Cohen feels (or classifies) the reception of these payments or accumulations of retainer fees...it just doesn't matter. What matters is how Trump Inc and Trump defined the payments. Trumps intent. No Cohens. Eg. I can go to mcdonalds and buy $25 worth of big macs. It doesn't matter if the drive through agent throws a dime bag of weed in with my order. Unless i intended to buy the weed. That purchase is further complicated if I have a credit account with macdonalds where I have $50 in credit with macdonalds...buy the food and replenish my credit card at a later date. Did i prepay? when i ordered and received that $25 order? I think so.

That's 3 solid arguments. and I'm conceding the payment came from a corporate account. Which it may not have.

Even if you're an idiot and buy any of that, the timing of the payments makes it obvious that they were made primarily to prevent his campaign from getting hurt. I mean, you'd have to be such a... never mind - not worth it.

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

We are not in a bull market. The market hasn't grown since January, because of Trump's idiotic trade war. That's an 8 month lull.

[Kanyewest]

The Washington Post tries to explain the difference of Obama's campaign fine and Trump's

So what did Obama do? Well, Obama didn’t do anything, really. His campaign — Obama For America — failed to report 1,300 contributions within 48 hours as required by law. It also received some campaign contributions that exceeded allowable limits from a donor for a campaign cycle and others that had incorrect dates. In total, the contributions at issue amounted to about $2 million, and the campaign paid $375,000 in fines.

What Trump is alleged to have done is to have personally instructed his attorney to facilitate an illegal contribution by a corporation with the goal of burying a negative story before the campaign and, in another case, having that attorney make an illegal payment to hide another damaging allegation. Unlike the Obama example, the violation was allegedly intentional. Unlike the Obama example, Trump and Cohen then proceeded to lie about what took place for months — until Cohen’s admission in court.

Some additional context that will shed light on the difference between what Trump did and what the Obama campaign did. A few weeks after the 2016 election, the Trump campaign also paid a fine for improperly handling campaign contributions. About 1,100 donations made to Trump’s campaign violated campaign finance laws, including donations that exceeded the allowable limit in a year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/08/22/trumps-comparison-of-the-cohen-allegations-to-obama-is-entirely-wrong/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3cd17853256b

[verbal8]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Again the payouts to the women count as an undisclosed campaign donation given the timing of the transfer of funds. The same thing that forced John Edwards to resign back in the 2007-08 Democratic Primary. Of course I imagine that Edwards lost a lot more of his base than Trump.

That being said, it looks as if Cohen has a lot more evidence to use against Trump especially since he was in those meetings in the lead up to the Trump tower meetings with the Russians. Apparently now Cohen is not willing to take a presidential pardon.

obama paid over 345,000 and fines and fees as well as the "illegal campaign contribution" in 2008. Many many many many other politicians have similar paperwork issues. They pay a fine and everyone moves on. Kennedy was unsuccessfully tried in court of law.<--because he fought the fees and fines instead of paying them. Trump has the money to pay the money he (might) owe.

There is a big difference between Trump and every other campaign. Trump has been implicated in DIRECTING the campaign finance violation.

While there are similarities with the Edwards case. However that case wasn't successfully prosecuted partial because there wasn't a direct connection to Edwards.

[pancakes3]

Whether or not Levin is reliable, his conclusions sound absurd. Clearly the payments were made FOR THE PURPOSE of affecting the election. That was the prime purpose - unlike the examples he used to try to justify them not being reportable. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to pretend I know 100% for sure that laws were broken, but Levin's logic makes no sense whatsoever.

Nope.

trump was down 10-12 overall and 5-8 in battle ground states necessary to win. No one in their right mind thought the election could be affected. Votes? possibly. But the election? no chance. So the "purpose of the payment" was to protect Trump Inc. and trump the business man. and Trump personally. On November 9th. Trump was suppose to go back to the apprentice and whatever else trump was doing. <--easy argument to make.

Also the payment came from trump himself. Likely his corporate account and to be written off as a PR expense. possibly a legal expense. <--easy argument to make.

furthermore, when Cohen made the payment, it could have been made from an accumulation of retainer that Trump already paid Cohen. <--Likely...and an easy argument to make. When Trump wired more money to Cohen likely from a corporate account trump was merely refueling his retainer accumulation so as to pay for future issues like this that may arise.<--all of which is another easy argument to make. No matter how Cohen feels (or classifies) the reception of these payments or accumulations of retainer fees...it just doesn't matter. What matters is how Trump Inc and Trump defined the payments. Trumps intent. No Cohens. Eg. I can go to mcdonalds and buy $25 worth of big macs. It doesn't matter if the drive through agent throws a dime bag of weed in with my order. Unless i intended to buy the weed. That purchase is further complicated if I have a credit account with macdonalds where I have $50 in credit with macdonalds...buy the food and replenish my credit card at a later date. Did i prepay? when i ordered and received that $25 order? I think so.

That's 3 solid arguments. and I'm conceding the payment came from a corporate account. Which it may not have.

Even if you're an idiot and buy any of that, the timing of the payments makes it obvious that they were made primarily to prevent his campaign from getting hurt. I mean, you'd have to be such a... never mind - not worth it.

bc i'm bored:

Argument (1) - It's to protect his image/brand independent of his image as a political candidate.

Doesn't matter. If his political image is being affected, it is covered under campaign finance law. you still have to disclose.

Argument (2) - It's from his corporate account, and just a legal expense

Trump's company isn't a corporation - mainly because it makes it easier for him to cover up his spending. It'd be a lot worse for Trump if it was a corporate account, because then he'd have shareholders to answer to as to why he's spending their money for his f*ck-ups.

However, even to point that the money came from Trump's own pockets, he still has to disclose. It's the very purpose of campaign finance rules. If "personal" expenses that do not come from a designated campaign account are allowed, then everyone would just operate out of a "personal" account and nobody would hold any money in the campaign account.

Argument (3) - It's a retainer payment.

Nope. This argument was made months ago but Cohen already plead guilty, and has tapes.


But here's the question that I have to ask yet again - why are trump supporters trying to defend this? why can't the american people call balls and strikes as they come? this is bad. call it bad. there's not much more to it.

[Zonkerbl]

If you are rich, you can contribute as much of your own money to a campaign as you want. So if Trump had just cut a check to Stormy Daniels himself he'd be totally in the clear. Why did he force his own idiot lawyer (idiot because presumably as a competent lawyer he would have known this, shoot even I know it) to break the law for him, twice (he had to lie to a bank to get the home equity loan he used to pay her off), completely unnecessarily?

On top of that, instructing Cohen to break the law unnecessarily IS ITSELF A CRIME. How stupid can you be? Trump is lucky presidents can't be indicted because that is some stupid sh|t right there.

[stilldropin20]

The Washington Post tries to explain the difference of Obama's campaign fine and Trump's

So what did Obama do? Well, Obama didn’t do anything, really. His campaign — Obama For America — failed to report 1,300 contributions within 48 hours as required by law. It also received some campaign contributions that exceeded allowable limits from a donor for a campaign cycle and others that had incorrect dates. In total, the contributions at issue amounted to about $2 million, and the campaign paid $375,000 in fines.

What Trump is alleged to have done is to have personally instructed his attorney to facilitate an illegal contribution by a corporation with the goal of burying a negative story before the campaign and, in another case, having that attorney make an illegal payment to hide another damaging allegation. Unlike the Obama example, the violation was allegedly intentional. Unlike the Obama example, Trump and Cohen then proceeded to lie about what took place for months — until Cohen’s admission in court.

Some additional context that will shed light on the difference between what Trump did and what the Obama campaign did. A few weeks after the 2016 election, the Trump campaign also paid a fine for improperly handling campaign contributions. About 1,100 donations made to Trump’s campaign violated campaign finance laws, including donations that exceeded the allowable limit in a year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/08/22/trumps-comparison-of-the-cohen-allegations-to-obama-is-entirely-wrong/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3cd17853256b

isn't the purpose of all campaign contribution to influence the election???? every single dollar goes toward paying to support any given candidate...AKA influence the election.

Why cant trump simply have failed to file the paperwork on time??!! (and file it today for that matter)...

or received excess amounts (from himself no less)?

Who says it was a damaging campaign allegation?? Who determines this???

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so. Look...I'm Just sayin' no difference between this potential campaign contribution and Obama's. None at all. Except thatTrump himself was contributing to himself from his own corporation. IE his own money. Which is far far cleaner than violating camapaign contribution laws from outside donors. The entire purpose of the contribution laws is to limit dark money and knowing which candidates are getting money and from where. In this case Trump was getting money from Trump. And Trump spent $60M of his own money anyway. No dark money. no outside influence.

This entire thing reeks of dems perverting laws to benefit dems. I mean...we should NOT even have an independent counsel. The entire thing is based on a phony dossier cooked up by dems and the outgoing administration...perpetuated by the deep state. so as to over turn the 2016 election. dems are just bad people. sore losers. big whiny babies. This entire thing is a horrific perversion of justice and our justice system. I cant wait until a democrat is grinded through the "wheels of justice" in a similar manner.

and the whole thing is going to blow up in dems faces. I was going to stay at home at the midterms. Now i'm going to rent an apt in a competive district. j/k. but seriously!!! this is just going to piss off R's and drive them to the voting booth. midterms will be fun. I will have a massive bag of popcorn and a massive big gulp and dr pepper and be here all night.

speaking of election night...Nate, Popper, Monste... anyone have a link of the political roundtable thread of the days perfore the election and election night 2016??? Come on!!...do me a solid. I bring all this great content. i deserve a good laugh, too!

[gtn130]

If you are rich, you can contribute as much of your own money to a campaign as you want. So if Trump had just cut a check to Stormy Daniels himself he'd be totally in the clear. Why did he force his own idiot lawyer (idiot because presumably as a competent lawyer he would have known this, shoot even I know it) to break the law for him, twice (he had to lie to a bank to get the home equity loan he used to pay her off), completely unnecessarily?

On top of that, instructing Cohen to break the law unnecessarily IS ITSELF A CRIME. How stupid can you be? Trump is lucky presidents can't be indicted because that is some stupid sh|t right there.

*whispers*

Because Trump is broke

[nate33]

Not sure Mark Levin is the most reliable source. He is the one who started the Obama wiretap rumor (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/mark-levin-trump-wiretap-tweets-obama).

Baseless wiretap rumor?

Trump's campaign was indeed spied upon and his communications were intercepted. We know that now. It's no rumor. They got a FISA warrant on Carter Page, and with the "two hop rule" they could spy on anyone Page communicated with.

This is why the Trump team moved their transition headquarters to NJ the day after NSA Director Mike Rogers met with Trump in a SCIFF (where he presumably informed Trump that he was being surveilled).

[pancakes3]

isn't the purpose of all campaign contribution to influence the election???? every single dollar goes toward paying to support any given candidate...AKA influence the election.

yes. that is why every single dollar must be accounted for.

[/quote]
Why cant trump simply have failed to file the paperwork on time??!! (and file it today for that matter)...

or received excess amounts (from himself no less)?
[/quote]

he can very easily admit it. disclose it. pay the fine. but he didn't. i don't see how this is anyone's fault but trump's own.

Who says it was a damaging campaign allegation?? Who determines this???

you just said that any and all amounts of money goes to influence the election.

Arguement can be made that people like me (personally) began to like Trump more after the "grab em by the pxxxy" comment. The locker room BS talk made him seem more down to earth for me...more of a guys guy? so knowing he slept with Stormy would have only endeared him to me even more so.

you're a piece of sh*t

Look...I'm Just sayin' no difference between this potential campaign contribution and Obama's. None at all. Except thatTrump himself was contributing to himself from his own corporation. IE his own money. Which is far far cleaner than violating camapaign contribution laws from outside donors. The entire purpose of the contribution laws is to limit dark money and knowing which candidates are getting money and from where. In this case Trump was getting money from Trump. And Trump spent $60M of his own money anyway. No dark money. no outside influence.

you don't know that it's *his* money - you're assuming it's his money because it came from his own account (again, not a corporation). if you want to spray conspiracy theories, this could be russian money that oligarchs are funneling to trump's accounts by overpaying for condos. you're right in that this is the entire purpose of contribution laws. we want all the money in a single source so that we know what is going in and what is going out. trump did not do that.

we have no idea where trump's own money came from. however, we do know how much trump spent - which is a start. if we're to ignore all expenditures that a candidate makes from their personal accounts - then yeah, china can wire me a billion dollars and i'll just go ahead and spend an undisclosed amount of that money instead of putting it into my campaign account and reporting it to the FEC because, hey - it's MY money right? came from MY account.

This entire thing reeks of dems perverting laws to benefit dems. I mean...we should NOT even have an independent counsel. The entire thing is based on a phony dossier cooked up by dems and the outgoing administration...perpetuated by the deep state. so as to over turn the 2016 election. dems are just bad people. sore losers. big whiny babies. This entire thing is a horrific perversion of justice and our justice system. I cant wait until a democrat is grinded through the "wheels of justice" in a similar manner.

No, the whole thing reeks of Trump being an idiot and not know how to do things properly. Then, when he gets called out on it, he doubles down on the lie and the cover up becomes a thousand times worse than what it would have been if he was just reasonable to begin with.

The muslim ban was just some nonsensical troll-job dreamt up by Stephen Miller as a useable soundbyte for campaign speeches and it became a SCOTUS case.

The wall was just some nonsensical soundbyte but because the wall itself is undeliverable, it's pivoted now to doubling down on enforcement measures.

His empty, 80's rhetoric that revived nationalism and American manufacturing in a global marketplace has resulted in a trade war with the entirety of the developed world.

and the whole thing is going to blow up in dems faces. I was going to stay at home at the midterms. Now i'm going to rent an apt in a competive district. j/k. but seriously!!! this is just going to piss off R's and drive them to the voting booth. midterms will be fun. I will have a massive bag of popcorn and a massive big gulp and dr pepper and be here all night.

why does this piss you off? trump f*cked up but it's the dem's fault?

the mueller investigation was greenlighted by HIS doj appointee. all of this Trump has brought upon himself but somehow it's the deep state at work? who are you angry at exactly?

[gtn130]

This is why the Trump team moved their transition headquarters to NJ the day after NSA Director Mike Rogers met with Trump in a SCIFF (where he presumably informed Trump that he was being surveilled).

lmao

[Zonkerbl]

OBAMA did not order Trump tower to be wiretapped, that is a FLAT OUT LIE.

Obama's DOJ chose to wiretap Trump BECAUSE HE'S A FRICKIN CRIMINAL

[gtn130]

The Trump team moved their transition headquarters to NJ because they were being wiretapped by Obama (personally by him) and then proceeded to have countless meetings back at Trump Tower thereafter because well who knows. You are only limited by your own imagination here