Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[prime1time]

A Westbrook, Beal, Drummond team would ensure that the wizards stay mediocre for a long time.

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

[penbeast0]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

[Ruzious]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

I can't imagine GS winning this season. Next season - adding both Beal and Thompson - they'd have a chance. Oubre and Wiggins both have talent, but they're not going to move the needle much as far as winning a championship, imo.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

We don't actually want Oubre. We would buy him out so he can sign back with GS. Also maybe we can throw in Robinson to the deal as a sweater.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

A Westbrook, Beal, Drummond team would ensure that the wizards stay mediocre for a long time.

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

The other consideration to something like this is Beal wants to win now, and if you're committed to working things out with him long term, this is the kind of move that shows him you're on the same page. This says ok Brad we got you Westbrook, and now we got you Drummond. We're doing everything we can. Plus Beal and Drummond are supposedly good friends.

[Ruzious]

A Westbrook, Beal, Drummond team would ensure that the wizards stay mediocre for a long time.

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

The other consideration to something like this is Beal wants to win now, and if you're committed to working things out with him long term, this is the kind of move that shows him you're on the same page. This says ok Brad we got you Westbrook, and now we got you Drummond. We're doing everything we can. Plus Beal and Drummond are supposedly good friends.

What Drummond does, he does very well. What he doesn't do well, he does very poorly. His scoring efficiency this season is particularly bad for a player who's no threat outside of 5 feet. He also turns it over too much. Not to mention he's a poor FT shooter and a meh defender for someone with his shot-blocking and steals numbers.

[nate33]

A Westbrook, Beal, Drummond team would ensure that the wizards stay mediocre for a long time.

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

We are the worst team in the league. How on Earth are we going to compete with the Nets, or even Cleveland, in the buyout market?

[nate33]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

We don't actually want Oubre. We would buy him out so he can sign back with GS. Also maybe we can throw in Robinson to the deal as a sweater.

I'm telling you, using Oubre as the cap ballast is not going to happen. The luxtax costs are astronomical. They already project to pay a whopping $100M in luxtax fees next year. Adding Beal would cost them his $34M in salary plus another $127M in luxtax fees! You heard that right. They would be paying $227M in luxtax fees.

[nate33]

A Westbrook, Beal, Drummond team would ensure that the wizards stay mediocre for a long time.

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

The other consideration to something like this is Beal wants to win now, and if you're committed to working things out with him long term, this is the kind of move that shows him you're on the same page. This says ok Brad we got you Westbrook, and now we got you Drummond. We're doing everything we can. Plus Beal and Drummond are supposedly good friends.

Drummond is a bad fit with Washington. Yeah, his rebounding will help, but he would totally clog the lane for Beal and Westbrook. If you have Drummond, you better have shooting at the other 4 positions. Drummond will not work on a team with Westbrook. Or rather, he isn't as valuable to us than he would be to another team that's a better fit.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

We don't actually want Oubre. We would buy him out so he can sign back with GS. Also maybe we can throw in Robinson to the deal as a sweater.

I'm telling you, using Oubre as the cap ballast is not going to happen. The luxtax costs are astronomical. They already project to pay a whopping $100M in luxtax fees next year. Adding Beal would cost them his $34M in salary plus another $127M in luxtax fees! You heard that right. They would be paying $227M in luxtax fees.

Oh.... Ok, nevermind.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I disagree, if you look at the best teams they dominate the buy out market. If we can make a push, we might be able to compete with the Nets on the buyout market for Drummond. The best teams don’t pay top notch dollar for talent. This is where we need to be.

The other consideration to something like this is Beal wants to win now, and if you're committed to working things out with him long term, this is the kind of move that shows him you're on the same page. This says ok Brad we got you Westbrook, and now we got you Drummond. We're doing everything we can. Plus Beal and Drummond are supposedly good friends.

Drummond is a bad fit with Washington. Yeah, his rebounding will help, but he would totally clog the lane for Beal and Westbrook. If you have Drummond, you better have shooting at the other 4 positions. Drummond will not work on a team with Westbrook. Or rather, he isn't as valuable to us than he would be to another team that's a better fit.

I totally agree. But I also would not be schocked if we go this route, especially if we make a run and get back to .500

[Dat2U]

We don't actually want Oubre. We would buy him out so he can sign back with GS. Also maybe we can throw in Robinson to the deal as a sweater.

I'm telling you, using Oubre as the cap ballast is not going to happen. The luxtax costs are astronomical. They already project to pay a whopping $100M in luxtax fees next year. Adding Beal would cost them his $34M in salary plus another $127M in luxtax fees! You heard that right. They would be paying $227M in luxtax fees.

Oh.... Ok, nevermind.

Thats alot of money --- just to keep Wiggins in a Beal deal. Maybe LeBron, Durant is worth that but not Andrew friggin Wiggins.

[penbeast0]

Klay is guaranteed MORE money than Wiggins, and for more years, which is why I think GS would be willing to move him.

[Ruzious]

Klay is guaranteed MORE money than Wiggins, and for more years, which is why I think GS would be willing to move him.

He's also a better player who's been a big part of their championships.

[TGW]

Klay is guaranteed MORE money than Wiggins, and for more years, which is why I think GS would be willing to move him.

They wouldn't. Not that this is an indicator or anything, but the Warriors fans lose their minds if you suggest anything for Thompson (and he's been seriously hurt). I imagine their management probably feels the same way.

[penbeast0]

You have a much less mercenary and more warm and fuzzy view of sports teams than I do. As I said in a previous post, if Seattle will deal Gary Payton, San Antonio will deal George Gervin, Atlanta will deal Dominique Wilkins . . . all the alltime face of their franchise (ok, excepting only Tim Duncan), I believe GS will look at this with loyalty and alienating fans being very small parts of the equation.

[nate33]

You have a much less mercenary and more warm and fuzzy view of sports teams than I do. As I said in a previous post, if Seattle will deal Gary Payton, San Antonio will deal George Gervin, Atlanta will deal Dominique Wilkins . . . all the alltime face of their franchise (ok, excepting only Tim Duncan), I believe GS will look at this with loyalty and alienating fans being very small parts of the equation.

For the right team, Klay Thompson is an awesome 2nd star ceiling-raiser who can win you a title and is worth the money he is paid. On the wrong team, he is a declining player on a really expensive contract that will look like an albatross in a couple of years.

Golden State is the right team. We are the wrong team. It makes no sense whatsoever to trade Klay to Washington.

[NatP4]

I’m not sure how you can call Westbrook untradeable. If he pulls down 10 rebounds and has a good shooting night next game, he’s going to be averaging a 20/10/10 triple double on close to his career average efficiency.

Obviously he’s not going to drop 40 every night, but he has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of games. Getting to the rim with ease, more lift on his jumpshot, much better passing and decision making. With everyone back healthy, this team is going to start to turn it around I think. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

[nate33]

If the Warriors trade their future assets for Beal, it's because they want to win this year. To do that, they would want to keep their wings that can play, Oubre and Wiggins. Although the fanbase loves Klay, the ownership are businessmen and NBA history is full of older players who would never be traded, who got traded. George Gervin, Gary Payton, Nate Thurmond . . . there is little loyalty in the real NBA.

I tried to put together a two part trade where we make the initial Beal to GSW trade with Klay as the ballast, and then a year from now, we send Klay back in exchange for Wiggins. It's fairly unrealistic, but it would be the best thing for Golden State (and us because it's easier to tank with an injured Klay than a half-decent Wiggins).

[payitforward]

What do people think about Andre Drummond?

I've considered Drummond as a potential target if we are going to keep Brad...

I like Drummond -- but the big question is how much it would cost to re-sign him. You cannot consider players/trades without considering how you are going to pay their salaries.

Drummond is making $29m this year. If we assume he'll only cost $20m next year, then (given your trade: see below) we'd be paying $123m for 6 players (Drummond plus Beal, Russ, Bertans, Rui & Deni). The tax line will be @$136m.

Thus, we'd have @$13m to add 9 other players. $4-6m would go to our R1 pick. So, let's just say $9m to add 8 players. That can't be done. Pure & simple.

Of course, if we thought that with Drummond we would contend to play in the ECF, maybe Ted would be willing to pay the tax -- for 2 years, btw (& the cost goes up in year 2). But... that's magical thinking. After last night's miracle win, we are 4-12. Drummond ain't going to make us that much better!

The package I look at would be something like Bryant, Lopez, Ish, Troy Brown Jr....

Again, do look at the effect on salary -- in fact, this trade would mean the lux tax this year too. So that's 3 years in a row: have you looked at the way the payments explode in year 3?

The reason the Cavs could consider it is if they don't think there's a chance of keeping Drummond after this season. They get Bryant as a replacement next year. Lopez is a expiring included to make the money work, and can give you something the rest of this season, and then Bryant comes into the picture next season after his recovery. You also get Troy Brown Jr as a young player with potential you can possibly keep long term. So they are getting something for Drummond (Bryant & TBJ) instead of losing him for nothing. Maybe also add a 2nd round pick....

You don't need to cite reasons -- the Cavs would put up a monument in your name if you could make this trade happen! They'd be putting your name in lights! There'd be SUPERBALLMAN Day every year in Cleveland! (which should give you a clear idea of how "good" a trade you just came up with...)

They don't plan to keep Drummond next year. There was consideration of buying him out! Instead, here you come along & give them the farm instead! What a guy!

The Wizards consider this if they think they can sign Drummond for another year or 2 at least, and are all in for a Beal, Westbrook, Drummond "Big 3" for the next couple of years as a team they think could compete in the east. They can part with Bryant because Drummond is essentially replacing him anyway, and Troy Brown Jr is a young asset that just doesn't really fit in their long term plans.

You're dreaming. Not to mention that you're spending a few hundred million $$ of Ted's money on tax payments for a team that would probably make the playoffs but would be unlikely to get out of round 1.