Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[Illuminaire]

I’m a homer. Can’t help it. Grew up in the NYC area rooting for the Knicks, Jets and Yankees.

Been in DC for more than 30 years. So now I’m a hardcore Zards, Nats and WFT fan...win, lose or draw.

As much as we seem to disagree about everything related to team strategy, I 100% respect your dedication to the Washington area teams. High fives for homerism!

[wall_glizzy]

I like Bryant - I think the Gafford / Bryant tandem will be a blast to watch next year - and is contract is pretty solid for the role I envision him playing upon his return. But claiming he delivers value comparable to that of KAT or Vucevic... c'mon.

I too cant wait to see the Gafford/Bryant tandem at C. I would also like to see the team experiment with Bryant at PF, under certain conditions. I do not think that Bryant or Gafford have the foot speed and quickness to stay in front of an above average PF, and would probably foul a lot under the circumstances. Maybe I am wrong, so I'd like to see if it is really the case. I would not like to see Bryant traded for Vuc.

I think you just have to look at who power forwards are in the modern NBA - they're not only way smaller, more perimeter-oriented, and more agile than anybody Bryant could hope to guard, but more and more they're the primary initiators of offense for their teams, i.e. the exact players that are going to be hunting Bryant on the switch no matter how we try to hide him on defense. We can't just gift them that matchup.

Are we really going to start games with Bryant at the 4, drawing a primary defensive assignment of... Jayson Tatum? Jerami Grant? AD or LeBron? Giannis? Kevin Durant? Julius Randle? Pascal Siakam? John Collins? Michael Porter Jr? Whichever of the Clippers four wings is the nominal PF that day? He would get destroyed, and there's no way he would get those points back on offense being relegated to a spot-up shooter with Russ and Gafford out there.

[gesa2]

I can't switch teams like it looks like one of our former posters did.

Hey man. Saw your post. Not sure if you were talking about me, or another poster, but where you are is exactly where I was about 3-4 years ago. 30+ years of rooting for a franchise that only knew how to make me hurt. No confidence in ownership to ever get things right. And at the time, EG was somehow still at the helm.

I took two years off. It was weird watching basketball and not rooting for anyone. I tried to follow individuals and young teams, but it was an awkward, disconnected way of watching the sport. I still enjoyed the playoffs, but the regular season almost stopped existing.

After getting that separation from the Wiz, I decided it was time to follow a new team. Because I only know unhealthy sports relationships, I attached myself to Zion's dangerously fragile knees. So when NO picked him, that was my team. Heaven help me.

This season was good. I watched about 30-35 Pels games, and always caught the box scores for ones I missed. Got in deep with people about how sneaky bad Brandon Ingram is as a fit with Williamson. Breathed a deep sigh of relief as we came up short of the play-in, because we were NOT ready. And most importantly... found myself naturally using that language as the season wrapped up. "We." "Us". I'd finally moved on.

Around that time I came back here to talk b-ball because, unfortunately, the NO board is emptier than Jordan Crawford's stats.

Sharing this not to tell you to do the same thing. We're all built differently. Tommy may even be a half-decent GM.

Sharing to let you know that if you do decide you need to make a change, there is daylight on the other side.

Illuminaire I empathize. I’ve mentally auditioned other teams for my fandom each of the last 5 years. This board is one of the things that keeps pulling me back. I live on the MD/DE border now so should go with Philly by all rights - fun interesting team, and Morey will always do creative stuff that rewards diehards. Tommy has been creative too though.
So far I’m still here lurking and occasionally posting.

[Dat2U]

I like Bryant - I think the Gafford / Bryant tandem will be a blast to watch next year - and is contract is pretty solid for the role I envision him playing upon his return. But claiming he delivers value comparable to that of KAT or Vucevic... c'mon.

I too cant wait to see the Gafford/Bryant tandem at C. I would also like to see the team experiment with Bryant at PF, under certain conditions. I do not think that Bryant or Gafford have the foot speed and quickness to stay in front of an above average PF, and would probably foul a lot under the circumstances. Maybe I am wrong, so I'd like to see if it is really the case. I would not like to see Bryant traded for Vuc.

I think you just have to look at who power forwards are in the modern NBA - they're not only way smaller, more perimeter-oriented, and more agile than anybody Bryant could hope to guard, but more and more they're the primary initiators of offense for their teams, i.e. the exact players that are going to be hunting Bryant on the switch no matter how we try to hide him on defense. We can't just gift them that matchup.

Are we really going to start games with Bryant at the 4, drawing a primary defensive assignment of... Jayson Tatum? Jerami Grant? AD or LeBron? Giannis? Kevin Durant? Julius Randle? Pascal Siakam? John Collins? Michael Porter Jr? Whichever of the Clippers four wings is the nominal PF that day? He would get destroyed, and there's no way he would get those points back on offense being relegated to a spot-up shooter with Russ and Gafford out there.

The talk of Bryant playing the 4 will die when we never play him there

Bryant is only a C. He can only defend one position and he's mediocre at that. He was never a great athlete as a C to begin with and now he's coming off a serious injury which may make him a step slower.

[payitforward]

Pif, I love Bryant, and I'm not sure what led up to your thesis, but you left out something - Bryant's played 99 games in 4 seasons and has averaged just 20.9 minutes a game. He's got nowhere near the body of work that Vucevic has. Vuc's numbers are much more meaningful because he played 33.5 minutes a game for 70 games (which is a typical season for him), and he has NOT declined. Bryant played 10 games. For their total production, the 28m to 8m ratio... who got the better bargain?

Having said that, I hope Bryant stays with Washington for a lot more years. When healthy, he's a heckuva player, and he can get even better.

Right on all counts but one (Vucevic has declined significantly over the last couple of years) -- I got carried away.

Hey Wall Glizzy... where are you? Can you hear me, man? My apologies -- nothing here to squabble about!

[payitforward]

Pif, I love Bryant, and I'm not sure what led up to your thesis, but you left out something - Bryant's played 99 games in 4 seasons and has averaged just 20.9 minutes a game. He's got nowhere near the body of work that Vucevic has. Vuc's numbers are much more meaningful because he played 33.5 minutes a game for 70 games (which is a typical season for him), and he has NOT declined. Bryant played 10 games. For their total production, the 28m to 8m ratio... who got the better bargain?

Having said that, I hope Bryant stays with Washington for a lot more years. When healthy, he's a heckuva player, and he can get even better.

It was me contesting PIF's ideas that:
(1) Over the last three seasons, Thomas Bryant has been every bit as good as, and frequently better than, KAT and Vucevic,
(2) Bryant has some kind of floor-spacing effect that would allow him to not only function, but somehow improve our overall spacing in lineups alongside Westbrook and Gafford,

at the end of the previous trade thread.

Anyway, 2019-2020 was indeed a down year for Vucevic... followed by this year, which was something of a return to form. He shot 40% from three on 440 attempts (a little over 6 per game), rebounded significantly better than Bryant ever has, assisted about 20% of shots his teammates made while he was on the floor, was merely mediocre on defense rather than a total catastrophe, etc. He wasn't as efficient from a TS% perspective, of course, presumably because he used nearly twice as many of his team's possessions.

I like Bryant - I think the Gafford / Bryant tandem will be a blast to watch next year - and is contract is pretty solid for the role I envision him playing upon his return. But claiming he delivers value comparable to that of KAT or Vucevic... c'mon.

Yeah well... everyone gets carried away once in a while!

The reason I brought up Towns & Vucevic was not to claim that Bryant is better than them. It was to direct attention to how productive Thomas Bryant has been.

As Ruz has pointed out, you can't compare him meaningfully to Vucevic, a guy who's played way way more. But, in the minutes he's played Thomas Bryant has unquestionably put up overall numbers right up there with those two guys.

Again, that doesn't mean you value him at their level. But it does mean that you value him highly -- which is very often NOT done on the board.

& you value him all the more in that you are paying him about 30% of what Vucevic is paid & that you acquired him at no cost -- yet it seems to me sometimes that he's valued LESS rather than more for those reasons.

As if you could easily go out & for no cost at all acquire a guy as young as Bryant (6 months older than Rui Hachimura!) who plays at Bryant's level. & makes $8m a year.

[payitforward]

Rumors that Lillard might be available....

Anyone want to waste time & be amusing by suggesting ways we could trade for him? C'mon!!

[payitforward]

Dat -- would you give Beal & something for Lillard? Too rich? Not interested in Lillard for some reason?

[penbeast0]

How is Lillard better than Beal on a team which already has Russell Westbrook?

[penbeast0]

I like Bryant - I think the Gafford / Bryant tandem will be a blast to watch next year - and is contract is pretty solid for the role I envision him playing upon his return. But claiming he delivers value comparable to that of KAT or Vucevic... c'mon.

I too cant wait to see the Gafford/Bryant tandem at C. I would also like to see the team experiment with Bryant at PF, under certain conditions. I do not think that Bryant or Gafford have the foot speed and quickness to stay in front of an above average PF, and would probably foul a lot under the circumstances. Maybe I am wrong, so I'd like to see if it is really the case. I would not like to see Bryant traded for Vuc.

I think you just have to look at who power forwards are in the modern NBA - they're not only way smaller, more perimeter-oriented, and more agile than anybody Bryant could hope to guard, but more and more they're the primary initiators of offense for their teams, i.e. the exact players that are going to be hunting Bryant on the switch no matter how we try to hide him on defense. We can't just gift them that matchup.

Are we really going to start games with Bryant at the 4, drawing a primary defensive assignment of... Jayson Tatum? Jerami Grant? AD or LeBron? Giannis? Kevin Durant? Julius Randle? Pascal Siakam? John Collins? Michael Porter Jr? Whichever of the Clippers four wings is the nominal PF that day? He would get destroyed, and there's no way he would get those points back on offense being relegated to a spot-up shooter with Russ and Gafford out there.

I think the idea is that Gafford generally draws the PF, at least on teams with an offensively minded 4.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Rumors that Lillard might be available....

Anyone want to waste time & be amusing by suggesting ways we could trade for him? C'mon!!

Ok... So the obvious is Beal for Lillard, maybe with more.... Like Hachimura maybe.

But the only reason to do it in the first place is to add him to Beal & Westbrook, to give us a legit Big 3, and to fulfill Brooks' wet dream fantasies of his ultimate 3 guard lineup.

So with that in mind....

Bertans, Hachimura, Avdija, Bryant, 1st round 2021, 23, 25 & 2nd round 2022, 24.

Westbrook, Lillard, Beal... Rest of roster is just filler, still have Gafford... Guys like Len, Gil, Bonga, Hutchison, Ish... Can probably entice some quality vets to sign for the Bi-Annual or MLE or min knowing they're going a contender, Ted would have to go into the tax, but this would be serious "All-In" mode.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7430920

[TGW]

Yea, that one ain't happening. Westbrook and about 4 FRPs and they still wouldn't consider it.

[payitforward]

How is Lillard better than Beal on a team which already has Russell Westbrook?

I don't know. Did someone say he was? ...

edit -- you were responding to a proposed trade. Missed that! Sorry....

[payitforward]

Rumors that Lillard might be available....

Anyone want to waste time & be amusing by suggesting ways we could trade for him? C'mon!!

Ok... So the obvious is Beal for Lillard, maybe with more.... Like Hachimura maybe....

Do you really think that offer would tempt Portland?

...But the only reason to do it in the first place is to add him to Beal & Westbrook, to give us a legit Big 3, and to fulfill Brooks' wet dream fantasies of his ultimate 3 guard lineup.

So with that in mind....

Bertans, Hachimura, Avdija, Bryant, 1st round 2021, 23, 25 & 2nd round 2022, 24....

Our '23 R1 pick is owed to Houston.

...Westbrook, Lillard, Beal... Rest of roster is just filler, still have Gafford... Guys like Len, Gil, Bonga, Hutchison, Ish... Can probably entice some quality vets to sign for the Bi-Annual or MLE or min knowing they're going a contender...

You sure we'd be a contender with the 3 amigos & a dozen nobodies?

[payitforward]

Ok... I guess Lillard isn't the "third star" many people want....

[Dat2U]

Dat -- would you give Beal & something for Lillard? Too rich? Not interested in Lillard for some reason?

Isn't that rearranging chairs on the titanic though? I'd pass.

I'd love to see Lillard in DC with Beal. I think Beal has another gear/level that McCollum does not have and the two could work very well but of course I seriously doubt Portland would want Westbrook and middlin assets in return.

I do find it very interesting that two of the most loyal stars in the NBA were drafted within 2 picks of each other.

[Ruzious]

The only reason Portland would trade Lillard is if he asks for a trade, so why would he prefer to be in Washington over Portland? No chance.

[payitforward]

The only reason Portland would trade Lillard is if he asks for a trade, so why would he prefer to be in Washington over Portland? No chance.

Kevin Durant's mother's cooking???

[payitforward]

Dat -- would you give Beal & something for Lillard? Too rich? Not interested in Lillard for some reason?

Isn't that rearranging chairs on the titanic though? I'd pass.

I'd love to see Lillard in DC with Beal. I think Beal has another gear/level that McCollum does not have and the two could work very well but of course I seriously doubt Portland would want Westbrook and middlin assets in return.

I do find it very interesting that two of the most loyal stars in the NBA were drafted within 2 picks of each other.

Agree on all points.

Esp. Beal is way better than McCollum (tho he just had his best year...). I wonder what Beal would produce with Lillard as his backcourt mate! He'd have a whole lot more open shots!

[nate33]

I too cant wait to see the Gafford/Bryant tandem at C. I would also like to see the team experiment with Bryant at PF, under certain conditions. I do not think that Bryant or Gafford have the foot speed and quickness to stay in front of an above average PF, and would probably foul a lot under the circumstances. Maybe I am wrong, so I'd like to see if it is really the case. I would not like to see Bryant traded for Vuc.

I think you just have to look at who power forwards are in the modern NBA - they're not only way smaller, more perimeter-oriented, and more agile than anybody Bryant could hope to guard, but more and more they're the primary initiators of offense for their teams, i.e. the exact players that are going to be hunting Bryant on the switch no matter how we try to hide him on defense. We can't just gift them that matchup.

Are we really going to start games with Bryant at the 4, drawing a primary defensive assignment of... Jayson Tatum? Jerami Grant? AD or LeBron? Giannis? Kevin Durant? Julius Randle? Pascal Siakam? John Collins? Michael Porter Jr? Whichever of the Clippers four wings is the nominal PF that day? He would get destroyed, and there's no way he would get those points back on offense being relegated to a spot-up shooter with Russ and Gafford out there.

The talk of Bryant playing the 4 will die when we never play him there

Bryant is only a C. He can only defend one position and he's mediocre at that. He was never a great athlete as a C to begin with and now he's coming off a serious injury which may make him a step slower.

Exactly. Please, God make it stop!