Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[Dat2U]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked. He's a good enough player to change the calculus. He's also unique enough where a coach needs to be inventive enough to use him in away that exploits his skill set. I'd give up anything on the roster outside of Beal.

And if Beal asks out... Philly is a serious contender who could put together a package of Simmons, Maxey, Thybulle & picks if the Simmons situation is still unresolved at that time.

[payitforward]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Ha, you of all people talking about people repeating themselves is maybe the richest thing I’ve seen on the board in awhile.

Did I say something nasty about you, brother?

[payitforward]

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He's physically/athletically gifted, but not nearly as much as Giannis. Even if you say yeah let him play that way, Giannis has had notable struggles and he, despite being a poor shooter, is still lightyears ahead of Simmons. I keep saying that the Giannis and Draymond Green comparisons are lazy because people say neither can shoot which really is a superficial take. Are either good or even average shooters? No, but they can shoot well enough and they actually take attempts.

Draymond Green is a career 32% shooter from three in both the regular season and post season (nearly identical numbers) and is a 70% free throw shooter as well in both the regular season and post season. Giannis is 28% and 27% from three but has hit 30%+ in 3 of his past 4 regular seasons and 2 of his past 3 post seasons. He's admittedly had his ups and down from the line but nothing like we saw from Simmons this post season. So what does that mean? It means they are at least a threat; Simmons has shown nothing thus far to give us the impression that he is or is willing to be with his lack of attempts.

Giannis and Green also have completely different mental makeups from everything I've ever heard about them compared to Simmons. Making this comparison really ignores how bad of a shooter Simmons really is even when comparing him against below average shooters.

In other words, insofar as this is a discussion of an NBA basketball player -- how good or bad he is -- you are right & Gilbert Arenas is wrong. Is that it? Gilbert's thinking about this is "lazy," while you see the matter more clearly.

Is that just about Ben Simmons? Or would you say your assessment of just about any NBA player is likely to be more accurate than Gil's?

[payitforward]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked. He's a good enough player to change the calculus. He's also unique enough where a coach needs to be inventive enough to use him in away that exploits his skill set. I'd give up anything on the roster outside of Beal.

And if Beal asks out... Philly is a serious contender who could put together a package of Simmons, Maxey, Thybulle & picks if the Simmons situation is still unresolved at that time.

Correct from start to finish. Except they wouldn't give that much for Beal -- especially if he's asked out.

But, that's not the subject here. Ben Simmons is unbelievably under-valued right now. A couple of weeks ago, I said that I wasn't interested in trading for him, because I didn't want to import the level of conflict he engenders. But, I take it back. In the kind of deals being talked about, Ben is, as Dat puts it, a "steal waiting to happen."

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

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He's physically/athletically gifted, but not nearly as much as Giannis. Even if you say yeah let him play that way, Giannis has had notable struggles and he, despite being a poor shooter, is still lightyears ahead of Simmons. I keep saying that the Giannis and Draymond Green comparisons are lazy because people say neither can shoot which really is a superficial take. Are either good or even average shooters? No, but they can shoot well enough and they actually take attempts.

Draymond Green is a career 32% shooter from three in both the regular season and post season (nearly identical numbers) and is a 70% free throw shooter as well in both the regular season and post season. Giannis is 28% and 27% from three but has hit 30%+ in 3 of his past 4 regular seasons and 2 of his past 3 post seasons. He's admittedly had his ups and down from the line but nothing like we saw from Simmons this post season. So what does that mean? It means they are at least a threat; Simmons has shown nothing thus far to give us the impression that he is or is willing to be with his lack of attempts.

Giannis and Green also have completely different mental makeups from everything I've ever heard about them compared to Simmons. Making this comparison really ignores how bad of a shooter Simmons really is even when comparing him against below average shooters.

In other words, insofar as this is a discussion of an NBA basketball player -- how good or bad he is -- you are right & Gilbert Arenas is wrong. Is that it? Gilbert's thinking about this is "lazy," while you see the matter more clearly.

Is that just about Ben Simmons? Or would you say your assessment of just about any NBA player is likely to be more accurate than Gil's?

Gilbert is entitled to his opinion, there are plenty of others who tend to lean toward my side of the debate who are players or are embedded in the NBA community. So yeah I think he is wrong, full stop. These insiders have to give hundred of takes, mathematically they are bound to be wrong about some takes, wouldn’t you agree Mr. Alter of the Analytics?

But you started this conversation on a false premise, that me being a casual fan, could never have an opinion that differed from a person who is an insider. Which is cute because you immediately IGNORED and dismissed Shaq’s thought on the matter because he “has no clue” essentially. But your pithy, exhausting post never are held to the same as others. I get it, it’s a convenient arguing position.

[payitforward]

You make a good point about Shaq. &, of course you can have a different opinion than Gil. Nor does being a fan disqualify you or me or anyone.

In general it's fair to say that Ben Simmons causes controversy. So, there'll be more disagreement about him than about most players.

But, sheesh.... why get personal? Did I say something mean-spirited about you? You personally? Did I make up a name for you -- as you just did above? In fact, did I ever pick you out individually at all?

I have nothing against you, man. Why would I? If you don't like my posts, feel free to argue against them. Or put me on "Ignore" if you like.

But there's no reason to be nasty to anyone unless that person is nasty to you.

[pcbothwel]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked.

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

[payitforward]

That's a very perceptive analysis.... Morey won't take pennies on the dollar for Simmons.

Your mention of the Spurs is interesting. You have to wonder.... SA might be a great place for him to rebuild his reputation.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Simmons should play like Giannis but I think if Simmons had it in him to play that way, teams wouldn't stop him. It's all mentality with Simmons. He's not a risk-taker. Giannis will miss a 3, get his rebound, get blocked at the rim and then come back and dunk over 3 guys the next 3 plays. He's just built different that way. Simmons will pass up the 3 and move the ball to a shooter of someone will block him in close and won't risk the TOs trying to dunk over a bunch of guys. I do think Simmons should be a PF but positions don't matter too much so long as he guards everyone.

That said, it's been fun watching Morey try to do his whole "players are mathematical assets" shtick and be consistently burned for it here. He's holding out for Lillard or Beal or someone like that and his position gets worse by the day because he doesn't make trades where he isn't the clear winner (except the Westbrook trade where he had his hand forced).

[nate33]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked.

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

I don't think those teams will set a very high floor. Also, we can't overlook that Philly doesn't want a package of picks. They want a primary ball-handling guard that can help them win a championship.

[Dat2U]

Gilbert is a smart fellow, knows a lot about basketball. He sees Simmons as a tremendous player -- play him like Giannis! is his advice.

OTOH, we've got people checking in here every day to repeat their certainty that Ben Simmons isn't much.

Of course, you-all could be right about Ben, & Gilbert is wrong... is that what you think?

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked.

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

A deal would have been done already if a blue chip option available. Teams know what's going on. Why offer your best asset when the player publicly wants out? He won't even report or meet with teammates. There's no Fox or Haliburton, Edwards or even DRussell. No Lillard, who knows on McCollum. Sexton doesn't seem to move the needle for them. D. Murray? I could see them settling for that. Maybe you throw Brogdon in there too.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

You make a good point about Shaq. &, of course you can have a different opinion than Gil. Nor does being a fan disqualify you or me or anyone.

In general it's fair to say that Ben Simmons causes controversy. So, there'll be more disagreement about him than about most players.

But, sheesh.... why get personal? Did I say something mean-spirited about you? You personally? Did I make up a name for you -- as you just did above? In fact, did I ever pick you out individually at all?

I have nothing against you, man. Why would I? If you don't like my posts, feel free to argue against them. Or put me on "Ignore" if you like.

But there's no reason to be nasty to anyone unless that person is nasty to you.

Dude, you’re passive aggressive and snarky all the time, (which I’m fine with because it adds entertainment value) then get hurt when someone snaps back at you a little. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it. I don’t have any problem with you, but I disagree with some of your hardline stances and your delivery at times. Just seems to me you have two sets of rules in terms of how you speak at others and how you want others to speak at you.

But for my part, I know it’s hard to relay tone and cadence over the inter webs, so I’ll try to keep the ribbing more friendly. Deal?

[payitforward]

Well, first para more of the same, but 2d para a big improvement, so, sure, we're good.

[payitforward]

Gil is right. Ben is steal waiting to happen. That's why I've been on that train ever since his value tanked.

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

A deal would have been done already if a blue chip option available. Teams know what's going on. Why offer your best asset when the player publicly wants out? He won't even report or meet with teammates. There's no Fox or Haliburton, Edwards or even DRussell. No Lillard, who knows on McCollum. Sexton doesn't seem to move the needle for them. D. Murray? I could see them settling for that. Maybe you throw Brogdon in there too.

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

[WallToWall]

Why do people keep saying this? What indication is there about his value being low and him being a "steal"? Because all the facts point in the other direction:
1) Simmons is 25 and locked up for 4 more years
2) Rich Paul has said he'll play for ANY other team
3) Morey is unfazed by the optics and impact on culture... He will hold out until he gets value.

No matter what YOU think his value is, below average teams in below average markets trying to make the leap will set the floor for his offer.
Kings, Spurs, Cavs, Hawks, Blazers, OKC etc. All teams that could use him and have trouble getting Free agents. They will set the floor high enough that anything other than Beal will make it all but impossible to get him.

A deal would have been done already if a blue chip option available. Teams know what's going on. Why offer your best asset when the player publicly wants out? He won't even report or meet with teammates. There's no Fox or Haliburton, Edwards or even DRussell. No Lillard, who knows on McCollum. Sexton doesn't seem to move the needle for them. D. Murray? I could see them settling for that. Maybe you throw Brogdon in there too.

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

I think think things are so bad, from Simmons' point of view, that he will give up the $$ in sitting out just to get out of Philly. He is done in Philly, and he has made up his mind about that, everything else be damned. Simmons certainly doesnt hold all the cards, and Morey's position is much more solid. But who knows where the optics will take this situation.

[queridiculo]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

Ben Simmons is due 50% of his salary for the league year by October 1st.

He was already paid $8.5 million in July, and he has another payment due in a few days.

[gambitx777]

I'll say this for PIF I think gill is 100 percent correct about how you should play Simmons. But, that being said I don't feel like the answer of bens heart, his soul, his guys is answered. Does he have that dog, does he have the heart of a champ. Gianis does. Does Ben. I don't think we can down play the questions about his heart and what he's really made of just because he's an amazing player dispite all his flaws.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

One thing to keep in mind is that if Simmons doesn't show up at training camp, Simmons doesn't get paid. If Simmons doesn't get paid, his agent doesn't get paid. It's not like he & his agent are holding all the cards.

That said, who the h#ll knows how this will work out!

Ben Simmons is due 50% of his salary for the league year by October 1st.

He was already paid $8.5 million in July, and he has another payment due in a few days.

IOW, his contract is such that he's paid even if he doesn't show up for work? Strange.... But, thanks for correcting me.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Also the implications for this are gonna be far reaching wait till the new CBA comes out and the owners do some drastic **** to stop this and every player stuck in a bad spot can thank Ben Simmons !

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Bro, this is complete nonsense.

Yeah...

Ben Simmons has many GMs of other teams who want him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

*Bertans
*KCP
*Kuzma
*Avdija
*Hachimura
*Kispert

76ers don't need a C so I didn't include Bryant or Harrell but Wizards have some options if the 76ers are only getting packages including Beasley/McDaniels, Hield/Bagley or Sexton/Love.

I'd pass.

Wait, and buy lower or pass on Simmons for now.