Any Gilbert Updates?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Now that Philadelphia is actually a playoff caliber team (in the East, mind you), I think they might actually persue Antawn Jamison in the offseason. They are already a near-.500 team and lacking in any kind of power forward depth. And Jamison's 3pt shooting would help them as well.

Miller
Iguodala
Young
Jamison
Dalembert

That's a pretty nice starting 5.

Interesting, MILLER.

What do you think would happen if the Wizards offered Antawn millions less (say 2-4M per year and 10-20M less overall) than Philly or Charlotte?

[yungal07]

What I believe is Jamison should be the sixth man a la Ginobili, when Gil returns. But that's not until Blatche outplays him at PF.

My other thought is with a different PG that Gil could be the SG and Antawn the SJ. That makes sense.

I know it's frustrating that Jamison is not an active, physical defender, and that the Wizards can look real bad with him on the floor. However, Jamison's a real good player.

I completely agree with that. I think this team would be best served by sending Jams to the bench so that there is more firepower off the bench. Right now, the Wiz have one of the weaker benches in the league, and the transition from starters to bench is so huge that the team often times loses leads when the bench comes in.

[MDStar]

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I wouldn't be shocked at all if Gil's played his last game as a Wizard.

I would!

In almost every interview he's given, what has he said the problem was?

"It's hard to tell," Arenas said. "If I really want to get out there, I can play now, but are you going to get two good minutes out of me? Right now, it's about me trying to get my body into shape and ready to play again. That's where I'm at right now."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3261180

So basically he's saying the injury is no longer the problem and that he just needs to get in shape to be able to log the heavy minutes that this team needs him to play. You mean to tell me, that he's going ot milk this conditioning excuse for the next month and a half or so. That would make him look as though he quit on his team for no reason at all. Gil just doesnt strike me as that kind of guy. I think he'll be back mid march, probably around the same time as Butler. Maybe the Cleveland game (March 13th) on TNT.

[johnbragg]

The good news for keeping Jamison is that he's 32 this summer. That puts him under the Over-35 rule if a team gives him a contract longer than three seasons. Basically, they can't give him a fourth or fifth year.

We'd be signing him under the same rule, but we're not using cap space so it doesn't matter.

Philadelphia could come at Jamison with an $11/$11.88/$12.76 offer, which is $35.6M over 3 years. I was penciling in Jamison for $10/$9/$8/$8(PO), $33M over 4 years. So Philadelphia could definitely be an option for Antwan Jamison.

[miller31time]

Interesting, Lyrical.

Lyrical?!

What do you think would happen if the Wizards offered Antawn millions less (say 2-4M per year and 10-20M less overall) than Philly or Charlotte?

It's hard to say what Jamison would do and what his priorities are. If he's in it for the money, we'll probably be the one to offer him the most, considering our franchise's and our owner's propensity of the "continuity" theory. If he's in it for the team success, he could sign somewhere for the MLE (San Antonio, Boston, etc). I don't see a scenario where Jamison signs elsewhere unless the Wizards give him a raw deal (6-7mil, IMHO).

The Wizards are better than the 76'ers, so unless Philadelphia wants to really go overboard with the contract, he'll probably stay here.

I just think that it's a possibility they'd have interest in him considering their needs and current Eastern Conference status.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

miller, I've been making all kinds of typos, misreads lately.

Sorry.

[lupin]

i think this may be a sign-and-trade summer for gilbert or/and antawn.

really, the wiz are going to have cap problems with even one of them signed so it would be the best way to get some decent talent IF they can't come to mutual agreement about keeping one or both or them around. if they both go without sign-and-trade, there probably won't be good enough FAs to use all of the sudden cap space on anyways.

sign-and-trade, wheeling-and-dealing - that's how things get done.

[fifthstop]

The "Supporting Cast" has held the trenches manfully while he's been out. It would be goat-like beyond KFB proportions for him not to come back the minute he's ready.

But the "Nah...I'm just outta shape" thing does seem weird for a guy who's probably been doing aggressive cardio for quite some time now. Let's hope that's really all that's going on...

[nate33]

i think this may be a sign-and-trade summer for gilbert or/and antawn.

really, the wiz are going to have cap problems with even one of them signed so it would be the best way to get some decent talent IF they can't come to mutual agreement about keeping one or both or them around. if they both go without sign-and-trade, there probably won't be good enough FAs to use all of the sudden cap space on anyways.

sign-and-trade, wheeling-and-dealing - that's how things get done.

The Wizards will have something like $26M in luxtax room this summer. EG can sign both players.

The luxtax concerns are in the 2009/10 season when everybody gets their usual raises yet no contracts expire. We only have about $24M in luxtax room in 2009/10 (assuming past luxtax cap increases and ignoring Jamison's and Arenas' contracts). EG needs to sign them to contracts in which their total salary in the 2nd year isn't greater than $24M. After 2009/10, we get plenty of breathing room as Daniels and Etan come off the books.

The bottom line is that if Arenas gets a max salary with maximum increases, he'll earn about $18.1M in Year 2 of his contract. EG will only have about $6M in luxtax room to pay Jamison in Year 2 of his contract. That's not gonna fly. EG needs to convince Arenas to sign for something slightly less than the max, but not significantly less.

I'd like to see Arenas sign a max deal (about $16.4M) but with no yearly raises. It would solve our 2009/10 luxtax issues and give us a lot of flexibility several years down the road.

The best possible open market offer for Arenas will be from Philly. They can offer a maximum of approximately $78M over 5 years. If we offer a max deal with flat salary, it'll total $82M over 5 years plus a 6th year guaranteed at $16.4M (make it a player option). EG would be free to offer raises from that base salary starting in Year 3 if necessary. Ultimately, EG could offer as much as 6-years $115M while still leaving about $8M in luxtax room in 2009/10 to sign Jamison.

For reference, Kevin Martin signed a 5-year deal worth $55M. Martin is a highly efficient, high-scoring guard, with mediocre defense on a mediocre team; just like Arenas. Arenas is a little better so he deserves somewhat more, but I think Kevin Martin's contract is a fair standard for comparison. If Martin got $55M over 5 years, is $82M over 5 years (with a $16.4M player option in Year 6) an unreasonable proposal?

[lupin]

i never said they didn't have any room to sign them. that wasn't my point. my point was this: don't panic. if one or both of them don't want to come back, the wiz can and should and will do a sign-and-trade to get some replacement talent. as has been pointed out, there just aren't any good teams/markets with cap room this off-season.

the only point i made about cap room was that if they were without both and had free salary cap space there wouldn't be that many worthwhile pieces out there to sign anyways.

[closg00]

It is truly not about the money with Gilbert. Gilbert can look at the current roster (which won't be changing much bar miracle trade), and say to himself, "Can I even get out of the first round with this group?"
Compared to the upper-tiered competition in the East, we simply do not have the depth on the roster to grind through a series.

If I'm Gilbert, I'd sign a short-term contract for less money, with an attractive team with significant cap-relief coming up. Miami will have significant cap space next year to make Gil a good offer (AJ too). I bet that Gilbert ends up in Miami short-term, and re-examins the landscape in a few years - he will still be only 27.

[hands11]

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It's hard to say what Jamison would do and what his priorities are. If he's in it for the money, we'll probably be the one to offer him the most, considering our franchise's and our owner's propensity of the "continuity" theory. If he's in it for the team success, he could sign somewhere for the MLE (San Antonio, Boston, etc). I don't see a scenario where Jamison signs elsewhere unless the Wizards give him a raw deal (6-7mil, IMHO).

The Wizards are better than the 76'ers, so unless Philadelphia wants to really go overboard with the contract, he'll probably stay here.

I just think that it's a possibility they'd have interest in him considering their needs and current Eastern Conference status.

Priorities ? I would put them in this order.

Being A Starter: He isn't going to start on a contender. He would be off the bench right away like he was in Dallas.

Championship: I sure he wants to be a part of wining it all. At this stage of his career, that's what players want. They want what they do to be meaningful and time is running out.

Money: Money is always nice but he has made a boat load on that last contract so I would think he wants something he can feel good about, but he isn't looking for what GA is looking to get. He already got that.

So that is what he needs to balance. If he want to win it all and he wants to start, there are less options for him. One the best teams, he would make less and come off the bench. If you are trying to balance all 3 of those things and you don't want to relocate, then he stays here and see what happens.

But if he really wants to win it all, he would take less and come of the bench for a proven contender but he would be a smaller fish.

But if he stays here, I don't think we win it all until we get someone as talented as GA who wants to play the PG with more of a PG mindset and we get more points and D from the post.

Getting everyone back healthy this year give us a decent shot to make some noise while we still have the pieces.

As for GA. This town is wide open for the taking again. I for one am sick of how Snyder runs the Skins. I'm pretty much done with them as I'm sure a lot of other are also. Been a fan since I was a little kid but you can only take so much starting over crap. Williams should have been HC.

This town can be huge basketball fans when we have a good team. When the Bullets made that run and won it all, this town went crazy. We even had the Bullet Fever song on the radio. This is more a college BBall town because, that's is who has been good. Maryland, GTown, Mason, AU. People like BBall around here. They just need a winner.

[MJG]

If I'm Gilbert, I'd sign a short-term contract for less money, with an attractive team with significant cap-relief coming up. Miami will have significant cap space next year to make Gil a good offer (AJ too). I bet that Gilbert ends up in Miami short-term, and re-examins the landscape in a few years - he will still be only 27.

Er, what about Miami makes them an "attractive" team? Even if Arenas wants to sign a short deal to reexamine things in a couple of years, I don't see anywhere that's more promising than staying here (assuming he isn't willing to take MLE money; if he is, then of course his options widen greatly).

[closg00]

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Er, what about Miami makes them an "attractive" team? Even if Arenas wants to sign a short deal to reexamine things in a couple of years, I don't see anywhere that's more promising than staying here (assuming he isn't willing to take MLE money; if he is, then of course his options widen greatly).

#1 A potential trio of: Arenas, Wade, & Marion
#2 Its Miami, Gilbert would eat-it-up

Although Miami does not have a decent big, if they land Roy Hibbert via draft, or sign a FA big like Elton Brand or Okafor, and its a fresh start for Gilbert.

[nate33]

It is truly not about the money with Gilbert. Gilbert can look at the current roster (which won't be changing much bar miracle trade), and say to himself, "Can I even get out of the first round with this group?"
Compared to the upper-tiered competition in the East, we simply do not have the depth on the roster to grind through a series.

If I'm Gilbert, I'd sign a short-term contract for less money, with an attractive team with significant cap-relief coming up. Miami will have significant cap space next year to make Gil a good offer (AJ too). I bet that Gilbert ends up in Miami short-term, and re-examins the landscape in a few years - he will still be only 27.

Yeah, because Miami is poised for success right now.

You have to look at the finances too. If Arenas wants to play for a contender, he's going to have to take the MLE. If he wants to resign, he needs to remain on his MLE contract for 3 years before being eligible for Bird Rights. That means he'll earn about $17M over the next 3 years. He'd earn something like $48-$56M over the next 3 years if he resigned here (plus he'd have the security of knowing he has another $50-$65M coming to him in the 3 years after that).

One more thing about Miami: If his plan is to play one year for cheap, and then hope that Miami has the cap room to resign him, he has to understand that the only way for Miami to have that cap room is if they first renounce Marion. A team of Wade and Arenas, surrounded by Haslem, Blount and a bunch of rookies, isn't going to be better than the Wizards.

[bulletproof_32]

I just can

[closg00]

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Yeah, because Miami is poised for success right now.

You have to look at the finances too. If Arenas wants to play for a contender, he's going to have to take the MLE. If he wants to resign, he needs to remain on his MLE contract for 3 years before being eligible for Bird Rights. That means he'll earn about $17M over the next 3 years. He'd earn something like $48-$56M over the next 3 years if he resigned here (plus he'd have the security of knowing he has another $50-$65M coming to him in the 3 years after that).

One more thing about Miami: If his plan is to play one year for cheap, and then hope that Miami has the cap room to resign him, he has to understand that the only way for Miami to have that cap room is if they first renounce Marion. A team of Wade and Arenas, surrounded by Haslem, Blount and a bunch of rookies, isn't going to be better than the Wizards.

I never said that Miami was poised for anything, but that it would be attractive to Gilbert. Miami is wide-open with a potentially potent trio to build around (Wade, Arenas, Marion)...and a good coach . The PG position in Miami is there to be had. Marion certainly won't get maxed again next year so they will have room to re-sign Marion to something reasonable, and have money to go after FA's.

AD & Etan will still be clogging our books through 2010 so we won't be changing much, why not go to Miami for a few years. Miami will structure a very attractive offer for Gilbert as-will Philly.

[nate33]

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I never said that Miami was poised for anything, but that it would be attractive to Gilbert. Miami is wide-open with a potentially potent trio to build around (Wade, Arenas, Marion)...and a good coach . The PG position in Miami is there to be had. Marion certainly won't get maxed again next year so they will have room to re-sign Marion to something reasonable, and have money to go after FA's.

No. They won't.

If they renounce Marion (and Dorell Wright), they'll have $13.6M in cap room. Every additional dollar they pay Marion will come from that cap room. There is no chance whatsoever that Marion takes anything less than $12M, it'll probably be considerably more. Heck, he is due $17M next year as it stands now.

Miami will have only the MLE for Arenas. That's it.

[Dat2U]

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No. They won't.

If they renounce Marion (and Dorell Wright), they'll have $13.6M in cap room. Every additional dollar they pay Marion will come from that cap room. There is no chance whatsoever that Marion takes anything less than $12M, it'll probably be considerably more. Heck, he is due $17M next year as it stands now.

Miami will have only the MLE for Arenas. That's it.

Miami can't renounce Marion. It's Marion who has an "Early Termination Clause" in his contract much like Gilbert does.

It's very unlikely that Marion will opt out considering he's making $17.8 million next season. He'd have to take a massive paycut. More than likely, he won't and will try to work out an extention with Miami.

I think it's safe to say that Miami won't have any cap room.

[closg00]

Nate/Dat,

I was going by the salary info on Miami posted by HoopsHype. Even factoring-in Marion taking the 17.8, the remainder of their team salary is listed at 53,364781, plenty to offer Gilbert - or so I thought.
Clearly I have misinterpreted the numbers.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm