OT: Jeez, Bibby to the Hawks

[Wizards2Lottery]

We need to stay put. A completely healthy Washington team is the best in the SE division.

We have a nicely balanced roster once Gil returns into the lineup. Good for Atlanta but they still don't scare me.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've got to think that Nick Young + Songaila + Memphis pick can get us a solid vet scoring presence.

How about Darius Songaila, Antonio Daniels, Nick Young for Sam Cassell and Tim Thomas?

Young's a good scorer. I'd rather have a better scorer now and some cap relief because there are a lot of good scorers.

[BruceO]

Well denver also is interested in acquiring artest and they already have a strong SF in Melo. I'm not wearing rose colored glasses or anything. I know because we get players with character he's not a likely consideration. Someone said we are strong at the Sf spot. I don't think we have addresed all the needs we can get from that position. Caron has covered a huge amount of those needs. We dont have anything when caron isnt there. we've lost alot of games recently because we dont have a good replacement for him when he's out. We've been burned by SF's recently during the losing streak because defensively we don't have anyone who can keep up with scoring SF's. My goal would be when caron is healthy to start him either as SG or SF. Depending on matchups Deshawn or Artest* would be the other starter with us utilizing carons versatility to slide the other players in depending on need. When Deshawn starts Artest is the sixth man. When artest* starts deshawn is our sixth man. Feel free to plug any other player like Kirilenko or Boozer or anyone else that you feel fits into that scenario. The only thing is players like those are valuable with Kirilenko making a huge amount. Where Artest because of off the court issues he's had coming in much much lower.
Again because of charector issues we wouldnt get him but on the court he is what we need. I think it's managements job to manage his off the court behaviour. Why would Sacramento do this when Artest is opting out? Nate you probably know more about cap issues than I do. If I'm not mistaken you started a thread on team cap space. I have to ask , as a franchise If you are faced with the possibility of a player you value leaving you, wouldnt you try to get some value for him before you lose him completely? doesnt that put more pressure on your franchise? What if we knew Arenas was going to leave for sure, wouldnt we flip him to some other team? If LA knew kobe was for sure leaving in the near future they'd try flip him too. Actually other teams knowledge of the fact that a player will opt out weakens the current holding teams position of power. Atleast this is my perspective.
The trade I offered, the idea behind it for sacramento was essentially giving them value for Artest before its too late, the value provided because of the short contract time gives them the option of holding or releasing players according to need.
It's all hypothetical anyway. My personal opinion is I just don't think we are a complete team. We are dangerous yeah but the obvious issue of not having someone who can defend Lebron or Carmelo will always be an achilles heal especially when we will be facing Lebron alot in playoffs as long as he's in the east. I mean what will change with our current squad that will enable us to defend him or make it difficult for him to facillitate his team. Also not having a backup for when caron is injured so we don't lose important games or entire playoffs like last year just because one player is out might be useful. I also want to make it difficult for other teams to put their best defenders on our best offensive players without other issues popping up. Larry hughes on Arenas? yeah sure let cleveland do that but caron will be attacking the other guard playing as our two. Did you notice the last game we played against cleveland Lebron was defending Deshawn? My push for Artest is because of my dislike for cleveland. Out of all teams the ones I really hate beating us is cleveland and Miami. I also recognize Hedo emerging and we don't have anyone who can defend him comfortably

[johnbragg]

Way upthread, Nate33 said what I was about to say.

This is good news for us, because Atlanta is now out of the Gilbert Arenas sweepstakes. The only teams with cap room are Philadelphia and Memphis, and neither figure to have room for a $17M max contract.

Our chances of keeping Gilbert with a 6-year $100M deal (start at $13M) improve, which means our chances of keeping Jamison for say $27M over 3 years or $30M over 4 get a lot better.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Those two teams have no need for Gil barring a trade.

Philly talked about moving Andre Miller, but right now that team's been playing playoff-making basketball.

Memphis has no shot at Arenas especially with Conley and Crittendon on a bad team.

[yungal07]

We need to stay put. A completely healthy Washington team is the best in the SE division.

We have a nicely balanced roster once Gil returns into the lineup. Good for Atlanta but they still don't scare me.

Totally agree.

Joe Johnson does the bulk of his scoring with the ball in his hands, thus making Bibby a glorified outside shooter. MB hasn't been an impact player since 2004 so I'm truly not impressed.

[johnbragg]

CCJ, I know Memphis makes no sense for Agent Zero, and as long as they have Bibby Arenas doesn't make much sense for Philadelphia, but Atlanta was a remote possibility for Arenas--a lot of young talent, and a big hole at the point guard spot. If Atlanta was in the market, we have to lay down the maximum money or take a chance on Gilbert taking the money to play with Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Al Horford and Marvin Williams. That combination would be pretty good with a lot of upside.

Now it's a lot easier for EG to say to Gil, this is the money we have for you. It's the best money out there. Don't make me cripple the franchise to give you the extra money and lose Jamison and lose any ability to bring in help.

[LyricalRico]

How about Darius Songaila, Antonio Daniels, Nick Young for Sam Cassell and Tim Thomas?

Great for the Wiz but I think the Clippers would want a little more because of the cap hit. Send out 2008 first instead of the MEM pick and I think you have something. The problem, though is that this puts us over the luxury tax threshold so it will never happen.

But we could still do Songaila+Young for Tim Thomas. That would be my first choice of trade deadline moves for Grunfeld to make.

[LyricalRico]

This is good news for us, because Atlanta is now out of the Gilbert Arenas sweepstakes. The only teams with cap room are Philadelphia and Memphis, and neither figure to have room for a $17M max contract.

Aren't you guys forgetting something? The Kings just cleared their cap with this move. Assuming that Artest opts out, they'll only have about $40M on their books come July 1.

And now that they've traded Bibby, guess what they'll need...

[MJG]

-= original quote snipped =-
Aren't you guys forgetting something? The Kings just cleared their cap with this move. Assuming that Artest opts out, they'll only have about $40M on their books come July 1.

And now that they've traded Bibby, guess what they'll need...

I'm pretty sure they have more than $40 million on the books. Brad Miller is on for $10-11, Kevin Martin $9-10, Kenny Thomas $8, Abdur-Rahim and Moore $6 apiece, Salmons $5. That alone is already past $40, and it isn't counting draft picks or the rest of their non-expiring roster.

[johnbragg]

LyricalRico wrote:

The Kings just cleared their cap with this move. Assuming that Artest opts out, they'll only have about $40M on their books come July 1.

I think you're using hoopshype's numbers, and they leave out Kevin Martin's extension, which starts around $9 million, and Mikki Moore's contract, which is between $5 and $6 million, plus Shelden Williams for a little over $3M. That puts their payroll around $54 million for only 10 players. Their draft pick is another million and a half or so. Sacramento might not have more than the MLE to spend.

And now that they've traded Bibby, guess what they'll need...

A point guard, a young center, and at least one power forward under 30.

[johnbragg]

Tag-team double post.

[closg00]

Way upthread, Nate33 said what I was about to say.

This is good news for us, because Atlanta is now out of the Gilbert Arenas sweepstakes. The only teams with cap room are Philadelphia and Memphis, and neither figure to have room for a $17M max contract.

Our chances of keeping Gilbert with a 6-year $100M deal (start at $13M) improve, which means our chances of keeping Jamison for say $27M over 3 years or $30M over 4 get a lot better.

Isn't Bibby's contract expiring next year? ATL could re-sign Bibby to a cheaper contract, and go after Gilbert - no?

[nate33]

-= original quote snipped =-



Isn't Bibby's contract expiring next year? ATL could re-sign Bibby to a cheaper contract, and go after Gilbert - no?

If Arenas decides not to opt out and rather waits until Summer 09 to test the free agent waters, there are lots of teams that might make a play for him. It is a mystery to me why Arenas is insisting on opting out this summer when there are few, if any, potential suitors.

Atlanta is no longer a factor in free agency this summer.

[nate33]

But we could still do Songaila+Young for Tim Thomas. That would be my first choice of trade deadline moves for Grunfeld to make.

I don't get the Nick Young hate around here. Yes, the guy is immature and hasn't yet figured out how to play within the offense, but his offensive talent is undeniable. And defensively, he has already shown marked improvement.

Nick Young will easily be as good as somebody like Juan Dixon. It's pretty likely that he'll be significantly better. And it's not out of the question that he'll end up as a star like a Kevin Martin if he ever learns the mental aspects of the game. The guy can score.

You don't trade away a guy like that only to satisfy your urge to unload the hated Darius Songaila. Heck, this trade doesn't even provide much cap relief. We save a $5M in 2011, a year when we have no luxtax concerns anyhow. Big whoop.

It's a terrible trade. I can't believe you consider it your first choice.

[mhd]

-= original quote snipped =-




I don't get the Nick Young hate around here. Yes, the guy is immature and hasn't yet figured out how to play within the offense, but his offensive talent is undeniable. And defensively, he has already shown marked improvement.

Nick Young will easily be as good as somebody like Juan Dixon. It's pretty likely that he'll be significantly better. And it's not out of the question that he'll end up as a star like a Kevin Martin if he ever learns the mental aspects of the game. The guy can score.

You don't trade away a guy like that only to satisfy your urge to unload the hated Darius Songaila. Heck, this trade doesn't even provide much cap relief. We save a $5M in 2011, a year when we have no luxtax concerns anyhow. Big whoop.

It's a terrible trade. I can't believe you consider it your first choice.

Ditto. Nick Young is CHEAP, an already good scorer, and the only guy on the team who can create his own shot sans Arenas (and to a lesser extent) Butler. With Mason gone after this year (I believe he'll get a sizeable raise), we NEED N1 because we have no young guards on the roster.

[fishercob]

Nate, I don't think Young helps the Wizards unless he's making shots. He could get better for sure, but my sense from watching him play is that he's always going to tantalize with his physical gifts but will never put it together.

My interest in trading him has to do with a couple things. One, I think his perceived value in the marketplace is higher than his actual value; I think scouts see his talent and think their coaches and systems can be the ones that enable him to put it together. The other thing is that I think Young will (or at least should) be out of the rotation once the roster is back and healthy.

Mason's more likely to re-sign if he sees a clear role for himself here also. I think if the organization makes a commitment to Young, Mason's not going to stick around to be the fifth guard.

This team is going to be ready to contend in the next couple of seasons; I don't think Young will be ready to contribute meaningfully, and thus EG should explore moving him for someone who will.

[yungal07]

Trading guys half-way through their first year in the league for players like Tim Thomas - reminds of when Wes was in charge.

Thank goodness we have EG in office.

[fishercob]

Yeah, Tim Thomas is not what I had in mind.

[nate33]

Nate, I don't think Young helps the Wizards unless he's making shots. He could get better for sure, but my sense from watching him play is that he's always going to tantalize with his physical gifts but will never put it together.

My interest in trading him has to do with a couple things. One, I think his perceived value in the marketplace is higher than his actual value; I think scouts see his talent and think their coaches and systems can be the ones that enable him to put it together. The other thing is that I think Young will (or at least should) be out of the rotation once the roster is back and healthy.

Mason's more likely to re-sign if he sees a clear role for himself here also. I think if the organization makes a commitment to Young, Mason's not going to stick around to be the fifth guard.

This team is going to be ready to contend in the next couple of seasons; I don't think Young will be ready to contribute meaningfully, and thus EG should explore moving him for someone who will.

I think you are jumping to conclusions awful quick. He's a 21-year-old who has played just half a season in a complex offense. He'll get better.

The bottom line is that he has a lot of raw talent. Most of his problems are mental. They'll get better over time. If we trade him, I think we'll regret it later.

I'm not worried about Roger Mason. The way I see it, we have a 3-guard rotation of Arenas, Stevenson and Daniels. The 4th and 5th guards are going to receive very few minutes. It's the perfect situation to groom a young, talented, but immature guy like Young. By next year, he'll probably be good enough to starting biting into Daniels' minutes at backup SG. A year or two after that, he could be our starting SG. He also has the size to handle some backup SF duties.